Warning! Don't do this....
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 13,787
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From: EuroGA.org
Surely it would be better to fit remote-reading ADF and DME than to hack the instrument panel like that, to cram in stone age avionics?
Honeywell do a DME far smaller than the one in the pic, and any EHSI can accept an ADF signal. This is quite appalling.
Honeywell do a DME far smaller than the one in the pic, and any EHSI can accept an ADF signal. This is quite appalling.
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,401
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
What a simply HORRIBLE instrument panel. A mish-mash of overcomplicated flat screen displays plus small, hard-to-read engine instruments. By the way, where is the fuel quantity gauge?
It sucks.
Who on earth would want such an arcade game in a slow light aeroplane?
Possibly the worst panel layout I've ever seen.... And as for all those exposed fasteners (one of which has already been damaged).....
It sucks.
Who on earth would want such an arcade game in a slow light aeroplane?
Possibly the worst panel layout I've ever seen.... And as for all those exposed fasteners (one of which has already been damaged).....
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
From: London
What a simply HORRIBLE instrument panel. A mish-mash of overcomplicated flat screen displays plus small, hard-to-read engine instruments. By the way, where is the fuel quantity gauge?
I agree cutting up the panel like this is barbaric. The Prefered DME fit slaves off the selected VOR/LOC or ILS frequency and simply has a remote read-out next to the PFD.
There is no good ADF fit.
Avidyne do not support the input of the DME/ADF for display onto the PFD, however the PFD's RMI pointer behaves exactly like an ADF needle (but is using the GPS) so I guess it is best to have the secondary display readouts for the DME and ADF to cross check, as well as providing redundency and additional clarity..
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 13,787
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From: EuroGA.org
Beagle - I agree.
But that's what all the GA manufacturers are doing now; one cannot give away a plane unless it has a "glass cockpit".
The panel layout needs to be designed from scratch for these large LCDs but this happens only on turpoprop class and above. The rest just bolt them in.
I would not buy a plane with these displays; not for 2-3 years. Technically they are unproven for reliability, and unless one can swap the functions of the two displays (which is possible only on some brands) a failure of one means a lot of information is lost.
A glass cockpit has the potential to very effectively address the persistent poor reliability of avionics, where things pack up just because it happens to be winter and it's humid, etc. It would have been easy to make an LCD unit sealed, and likewise with the remote reading sensors and gyros. Unfortunately, none of the GA products are sealed (airtight), so it's back to square one; little prospect of avionics shops being short of work.
But that's what all the GA manufacturers are doing now; one cannot give away a plane unless it has a "glass cockpit".
The panel layout needs to be designed from scratch for these large LCDs but this happens only on turpoprop class and above. The rest just bolt them in.
I would not buy a plane with these displays; not for 2-3 years. Technically they are unproven for reliability, and unless one can swap the functions of the two displays (which is possible only on some brands) a failure of one means a lot of information is lost.
A glass cockpit has the potential to very effectively address the persistent poor reliability of avionics, where things pack up just because it happens to be winter and it's humid, etc. It would have been easy to make an LCD unit sealed, and likewise with the remote reading sensors and gyros. Unfortunately, none of the GA products are sealed (airtight), so it's back to square one; little prospect of avionics shops being short of work.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3
Likes: 5
From: Wor Yerm
Regarding the NDB's - I would suggest that each and every IFR Public Transport aircraft has at least two (and a few DME's or so). Archiac - yes, but that is reflected in the minima to which you operate. And they are freqently used in anger. And as for sharing the sky with matey boy and his single engined tupperware and DIY Instrument Rating, well I'd suggest that if he's innocent, he'll get off. If not,
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,729
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From: 75N 16E
Once you have flown with a G1000, you will never look back. It is SO much better than the standard instrument fit.
Reliability is meant to be one instrument failure in 10,000 hours, unlike converntional 1 in 800 instruments.
Reliability is meant to be one instrument failure in 10,000 hours, unlike converntional 1 in 800 instruments.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
From: London
Whats he talking about?
his single engined tupperware aircraft and DIY Instrument Rating
Whats the new flying qualification this guy is talking about?
Anyone understand this comment? Would the stone-age man like to elaborate??
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7
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From: London
Interestingly enough, the Columbia 350/400 is available now in either Avidyne or garmin G1000. Also the ADF is also availble from the distributors as an option, approx $10,000 and actually looks pretty neat as there was a lot of empty space on the right side panel.
The Garmin G1000 screens are switchable so no loss of any info and of course in the Columbia there is no redundancy required for an alternator failure.
The Garmin G1000 screens are switchable so no loss of any info and of course in the Columbia there is no redundancy required for an alternator failure.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3
Likes: 5
From: Wor Yerm
Yes I would. Tupperware refers to plastic - not too difficult that one (and given the choice, I'd prefer tupperware any day - I have spent a enough time in plastic gliders to appreciate their performance). And DIY IR - I was under the impression (probably wrongly) that the person being busted didn't have an IR but just gave themselves one - like too many others who swan around in the airways.
But two final points: Firstly, the ADF is a very useful bit. Not only does it situational awareness but it also allows an approach when nothing better is available (a very common accurance). Secondly, a very quick search on the internet would reveal that to fly "airways" in the UK, one needs the following electronics: 760 channel radio, SSR transponder (Modes A and C), VOR, DME and ADF (or DECCA). To make an ILS approach you need to have appropriate navigation aids, which implies that an ILS and Marker Beacons need to be installed as well . To say you have all of this, you tick the appropriate box on the flight plan. And, IMHO, they need to be working. The only thing you don't need is GPS.
But two final points: Firstly, the ADF is a very useful bit. Not only does it situational awareness but it also allows an approach when nothing better is available (a very common accurance). Secondly, a very quick search on the internet would reveal that to fly "airways" in the UK, one needs the following electronics: 760 channel radio, SSR transponder (Modes A and C), VOR, DME and ADF (or DECCA). To make an ILS approach you need to have appropriate navigation aids, which implies that an ILS and Marker Beacons need to be installed as well . To say you have all of this, you tick the appropriate box on the flight plan. And, IMHO, they need to be working. The only thing you don't need is GPS.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: Bristol
IO540.
You say: The panel layout needs to be designed from scratch for these large LCDs but this happens only on turpoprop class and above. The rest just bolt them in.
This was absolutely true at the time of your post. Not so with effect of yesterday.
Columbia are now offering their 350/400 with a "FULLY integrated" G1000 FMS.
What is different to the other G1000 systems out there?
Supports AFD/DME (integrated).
FMS "ready pad" in the arm rest.
Digital autopilot with CWS and FD.
Cannot stall or overspeed aircraft with AP engaged.
Screens "autoreversable' ie switchable.
Trims and oxygen now on the MFD.
TAWS on MFD.
Plus a host of other stuff.
Impressive
You say: The panel layout needs to be designed from scratch for these large LCDs but this happens only on turpoprop class and above. The rest just bolt them in.
This was absolutely true at the time of your post. Not so with effect of yesterday.
Columbia are now offering their 350/400 with a "FULLY integrated" G1000 FMS.
What is different to the other G1000 systems out there?
Supports AFD/DME (integrated).
FMS "ready pad" in the arm rest.
Digital autopilot with CWS and FD.
Cannot stall or overspeed aircraft with AP engaged.
Screens "autoreversable' ie switchable.
Trims and oxygen now on the MFD.
TAWS on MFD.
Plus a host of other stuff.
Impressive
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
From: EuroGA.org
Impressive.
"Cannot stall or overspeed aircraft with AP engaged"
So, it has a certified auto throttle?? That IS impressive.
"oxygen now on the MFD"
As someone who does use O2, I HOPE there is a real gauge somewhere too
"Cannot stall or overspeed aircraft with AP engaged"
So, it has a certified auto throttle?? That IS impressive.
"oxygen now on the MFD"
As someone who does use O2, I HOPE there is a real gauge somewhere too
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: Bristol
ISO 540.
Yip, cannot stall or overspeed the aircraft with the autopilot engaged. How?
The Columbia intergrated G1000 with the GFC 700 is programmed to recognise set parameters such as stall and overspeed. The PFD will announce visually and aurally that that exceedence has been reached and then correct the aircraft automatically in pitch to prevent the event ever happening.
It is hoped that the pilot will recognise the event with the flashing red annunciator "stall" and the big noise and be able to lift his/her hand to the throttle.But even if they dont the aircraft will still take care of the event in a rather unexciting way until pilot wishes to regain manual control. Of course the stall or the overspeed will never actually occur, the system prevents it happening at 10 knots above the normal stall warning and five before overspeed.
The oxy gage is normally on the MFD but if this screen drops off line then it will revert to the PFD. So instead of one steam driven gauge you now ahve an integrated one and a backup.
You are right it is b......y impressive.
Yip, cannot stall or overspeed the aircraft with the autopilot engaged. How?
The Columbia intergrated G1000 with the GFC 700 is programmed to recognise set parameters such as stall and overspeed. The PFD will announce visually and aurally that that exceedence has been reached and then correct the aircraft automatically in pitch to prevent the event ever happening.
It is hoped that the pilot will recognise the event with the flashing red annunciator "stall" and the big noise and be able to lift his/her hand to the throttle.But even if they dont the aircraft will still take care of the event in a rather unexciting way until pilot wishes to regain manual control. Of course the stall or the overspeed will never actually occur, the system prevents it happening at 10 knots above the normal stall warning and five before overspeed.
The oxy gage is normally on the MFD but if this screen drops off line then it will revert to the PFD. So instead of one steam driven gauge you now ahve an integrated one and a backup.
You are right it is b......y impressive.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: LONDON
On the hill, Littlebopeep and Soay.
On the hill.
Correct sir - if you still want to buy the Columbia in the avidyne the distributor people will install it as an 'add on' option. It is however now superseded by as follows-
Little bo peep.
You sneaky little devil. Correct.
Soay.
Also correct - you wont see it written anyware. The G1000 INTEGRATED system has just been certified and the manuals have not been issued. Remember this is a first, although you will also see it eventaually on the mustang and the beechcraft 350. The ADF/DME are part of the integrated PFD. The way your used to seeing them. Any doubts give Bob Cusick at Garmin a call he'll talk to you all day about it.
On the hill.
Correct sir - if you still want to buy the Columbia in the avidyne the distributor people will install it as an 'add on' option. It is however now superseded by as follows-
Little bo peep.
You sneaky little devil. Correct.
Soay.
Also correct - you wont see it written anyware. The G1000 INTEGRATED system has just been certified and the manuals have not been issued. Remember this is a first, although you will also see it eventaually on the mustang and the beechcraft 350. The ADF/DME are part of the integrated PFD. The way your used to seeing them. Any doubts give Bob Cusick at Garmin a call he'll talk to you all day about it.
