Flying in Western USA
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Flying in Western USA
I'm off to California (ADP @ KPOC) later this month to fly 50 hrs or so. I have two friends who are coming along for the ride so to speak. We have a few ideas of places to go, flying up to San Francisco, Grand Canyon/Monument Valley, Big Bear etc But any other suggestions would be welcomed!
My main queries are to do with aircraft performance and Military activity.
I plan to hire a 180hp Archer for most of the trips. Do people think ( given the time of year) that there will be enough power there to fly at high altitudes, baring in mind there will be three adults on board? Any experiences of mountain flying etc would be welcomed ( I will be having a decent check out before I go flying off)
Secondly, a large portion of the area is marked with MOA's and or restricted areas. I'm led to believe that you can enter MOA's without permission, but it is best to get a flight following and that you are to request permission to enter restricted areas. I would like to visit Death Valley, Mojave etc however there seems to be a lot of restricted zones etc
Any help would be appreciated
Cheers
JAS
My main queries are to do with aircraft performance and Military activity.
I plan to hire a 180hp Archer for most of the trips. Do people think ( given the time of year) that there will be enough power there to fly at high altitudes, baring in mind there will be three adults on board? Any experiences of mountain flying etc would be welcomed ( I will be having a decent check out before I go flying off)
Secondly, a large portion of the area is marked with MOA's and or restricted areas. I'm led to believe that you can enter MOA's without permission, but it is best to get a flight following and that you are to request permission to enter restricted areas. I would like to visit Death Valley, Mojave etc however there seems to be a lot of restricted zones etc
Any help would be appreciated
Cheers
JAS
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When I was flying out of Gillespie field in San Diego (KSEE) and took a trip upto John Wanye Orange County it took me thru the San Onofore MOA which is beside Camp Pendelton of the USMC.I had VFR flight following and so was in contact with SOCALL APP all the time.Obviously checked the NOTAMS beforehand then half way thru I got calle dup by SOCAL telling me the MOA was going "HOT" and was advised I was within my rights to continue through the MOA.However I chose the option to scarper and headed further out to sea to leave the MOA.
As for the other MOA's I've been thru the ones to the EAST of san Deigo near Thermal andPalm Springs.From memory I never seem to recall having to get permission to fly through them.
Regards Enjoy your flying.
As for the other MOA's I've been thru the ones to the EAST of san Deigo near Thermal andPalm Springs.From memory I never seem to recall having to get permission to fly through them.
Regards Enjoy your flying.
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1-800-WXBRIEF will get you in touch with a weather briefer who will also give you NOTAM info. You can find out a lot of information for your trip. You will find ATC en route very helpful and I would suggest that you always ask for a VFR flight following (or Class Charlie Services) whenever you fly in California, it's a busy airspace and ATC will help cut down your workload as well as give you some peace of mind.
Page Arizona is a destination which I found particularly nice. You can fly around Catalina Island and Sedona but both of these landings are not permitted in ADP aircraft due to the high accident rate at both of these airports. You must do the McCarran (las Vegas) landing, it's especially good at night if you are current with night and instrument flying. The desert can be disorientating on a dark night compared to the brightness of Las Vegas! Visit the Venitian in Las Vegas and book a hotel on the internet before you go, it's much cheaper!
A 180 Archer will be fine although you will find that on the Big Bear check out that 180 hp is woefully inadequate at such an altitude especially in a downdraught.
I would in any event suggest that you have a GPS with you as SECONDARY means of navigation, as you say there are a lot of restricted areas in California and at the moment, the Yanks seem to have lost their sense of humour about airspace infringements. As you say, you can fly through MOA's although I prefer to avoid them if they are "hot" it's just that F14's seem to travel so fast! Another suggestion is that you avoid flying West in the LA basin at around sunset. The combination of haze, low sun and canopy scratches can make life somewhat tiresome!
Last time I was there, N8086J was about the nicest Archer to fly.
Page Arizona is a destination which I found particularly nice. You can fly around Catalina Island and Sedona but both of these landings are not permitted in ADP aircraft due to the high accident rate at both of these airports. You must do the McCarran (las Vegas) landing, it's especially good at night if you are current with night and instrument flying. The desert can be disorientating on a dark night compared to the brightness of Las Vegas! Visit the Venitian in Las Vegas and book a hotel on the internet before you go, it's much cheaper!
A 180 Archer will be fine although you will find that on the Big Bear check out that 180 hp is woefully inadequate at such an altitude especially in a downdraught.
I would in any event suggest that you have a GPS with you as SECONDARY means of navigation, as you say there are a lot of restricted areas in California and at the moment, the Yanks seem to have lost their sense of humour about airspace infringements. As you say, you can fly through MOA's although I prefer to avoid them if they are "hot" it's just that F14's seem to travel so fast! Another suggestion is that you avoid flying West in the LA basin at around sunset. The combination of haze, low sun and canopy scratches can make life somewhat tiresome!
Last time I was there, N8086J was about the nicest Archer to fly.
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Thanks for the advice guys. I have certainly looked at flying out to Catalina and making a trip to Sedona, but I had no intentions of landing at either field. The thought of flying SEP 25 miles out over the Pacific does not fill me with joy. I don't fancy playing a game of hide and seek with a Great White Shark LOL
The thought of Mountain flying does excite me, but at the same time I find it kind of daunting. Mountainous areas are dangerous places to be, especially with limited experience! If the Archer could not handle the conditions safely then there would be no question, they wouldn't allow it I guess!
My first major trip will be up the coast to Oakland followed by a night stop at Grand Canyon International some days later. I have flown over the Canyon before when I was younger but didnt really appreciate it due to the shocking weather. Hopefully it will be smoother in Feb
I hope I don't have to get out and push to help us take off 
As for GPS...... I wish I could afford one as back up! I intend to really nail VFR planning etc hopefully that will stand me in good stead for my CPL! It does please me to see so many VOR's and NDB's on the charts though!
The thought of Mountain flying does excite me, but at the same time I find it kind of daunting. Mountainous areas are dangerous places to be, especially with limited experience! If the Archer could not handle the conditions safely then there would be no question, they wouldn't allow it I guess!
My first major trip will be up the coast to Oakland followed by a night stop at Grand Canyon International some days later. I have flown over the Canyon before when I was younger but didnt really appreciate it due to the shocking weather. Hopefully it will be smoother in Feb
I hope I don't have to get out and push to help us take off As for GPS...... I wish I could afford one as back up! I intend to really nail VFR planning etc hopefully that will stand me in good stead for my CPL! It does please me to see so many VOR's and NDB's on the charts though!
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I'm a Brit living in Las Vegas and spend much of my spare time flying my R44 helicopter around the south west. I also fly in the UK when I am back. In fact I spent last weekend flying to Palm Springs, San Diego, Catalina, Santa Barbara, San Luis Ibispo and back to Las Vegas. I have also flown up Death Valley a few times and the length of the Grand Canyon.
It is fabulous flying out here but I would endorse a few of the comments already made. Always use flight following and it makes sense to supplement this with a VFR flight plan. The briefers on 1 800 WX BRIEF are very helpful both with weather as well as NOTAMS and the all important TFRs which can spring up at a moment's notice. You can check before or during a flight which MOAs are hot and I recommend steering well clear if they are hot even though technically you are permitted to fly in them. Look at the ceilings and times of use because in many cases you can fly over them or through them particularly at weekends (Death Valley is cold at weekends). Also ask for penetration of the many restricted areas. On Sunday, GA were being given permission by LA Centre (or should that be center) to transit the restricted area over Edwards Air Force base. It must have been spectacular to overfly the space shuttle runway. For the Grand Canyon get the detailed chart and stick to the altitude minima. Also look out for other aircraft. I had 2 close shaves because other aircraft were not giving position reports as they are meant to and everyone seems to fly at the edge of the ceiling. IN fact the airspace around Vegas, Lake Mead and the Grand Canyon is very congested so speak often on the right frequency and keep your eyes wide open.
I would also recommend a trip to Santa Fe in New Mexico with a short diversion north to see Los Alamos.
You should have a memorable trip.
It is fabulous flying out here but I would endorse a few of the comments already made. Always use flight following and it makes sense to supplement this with a VFR flight plan. The briefers on 1 800 WX BRIEF are very helpful both with weather as well as NOTAMS and the all important TFRs which can spring up at a moment's notice. You can check before or during a flight which MOAs are hot and I recommend steering well clear if they are hot even though technically you are permitted to fly in them. Look at the ceilings and times of use because in many cases you can fly over them or through them particularly at weekends (Death Valley is cold at weekends). Also ask for penetration of the many restricted areas. On Sunday, GA were being given permission by LA Centre (or should that be center) to transit the restricted area over Edwards Air Force base. It must have been spectacular to overfly the space shuttle runway. For the Grand Canyon get the detailed chart and stick to the altitude minima. Also look out for other aircraft. I had 2 close shaves because other aircraft were not giving position reports as they are meant to and everyone seems to fly at the edge of the ceiling. IN fact the airspace around Vegas, Lake Mead and the Grand Canyon is very congested so speak often on the right frequency and keep your eyes wide open.
I would also recommend a trip to Santa Fe in New Mexico with a short diversion north to see Los Alamos.
You should have a memorable trip.
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You will probably find that the 180hp archer is sufficient this time of year. I hired a C172 sp which I think is also 180hp, i had a scary moment when climbing out of Las Vegas with 3 up and 115degF temperature. The density altitude was very high that day. You wouldn't get that this time of year.
The airtraffic over there is wicked, just ask for flight following and they do the rest. If your flying IFR it's even better.
By the way if you hire a plane make sure you find out what they reimburse fuel fill ups at/gallon. sometimes they will give you less reimbursement than you paid for. That happened to me in Las Vegas.
The airtraffic over there is wicked, just ask for flight following and they do the rest. If your flying IFR it's even better.
By the way if you hire a plane make sure you find out what they reimburse fuel fill ups at/gallon. sometimes they will give you less reimbursement than you paid for. That happened to me in Las Vegas.
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Recommendation: Fly to Laughlin / Bullhead City and use it as base for day trips. Courtsey cars from airport. Hotels about USD 20 / night during the week.
Ramada is a good one. From there, destinations could include Tuscon, Grand Canyon, Page, Las Vegas, Death Valley, Havasu, the Chicken Ranch.
Ramada is a good one. From there, destinations could include Tuscon, Grand Canyon, Page, Las Vegas, Death Valley, Havasu, the Chicken Ranch.
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JAS, There is a chart for the Grand National Park. You will need that chart if you are going to overfly it. There are altitude restrictions as well as a corridor through it. You will need to use the corridor because the altitude restriction is on flights below 18,000 ft from memory. The corridor is quite narrow and I for one would not be at all happy about going without GPS for backup. I found very early on that primary and secondary means of navigation were essential and certainly I wouldn't rely upon a sectional for navigating through the canyon corridor. Incidentally, the Grand Canyon isn't a single canyon, it's a series of many canyons covering a huge area. It's not just as simple as following a single canyon and it's easy to become "unsure of position" You will find that ATC will almost certainly ask you if you have the special sectional for the national park and a GPS before you go through the corridor. It's all about preserving the giant condor which will also make a giant dent in your aircraft if you hit one!
The flight through the desert from death valley or Los Angeles brings you very close to restricted areas, the desert is a difficult place to navigate with a sectional. I personally wouldn't risk flying without GPS for backup, true there are many VOR's. I don't use NDB's myself and I'm pretty sure that you won't have any instruments in an ADP Archer to enable you to navigate on NDB's There will be trouble for sure if you wander into a restricted area including the National Park restricted areas.
The flight through the desert from death valley or Los Angeles brings you very close to restricted areas, the desert is a difficult place to navigate with a sectional. I personally wouldn't risk flying without GPS for backup, true there are many VOR's. I don't use NDB's myself and I'm pretty sure that you won't have any instruments in an ADP Archer to enable you to navigate on NDB's There will be trouble for sure if you wander into a restricted area including the National Park restricted areas.
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MOA's are no problem. You can get FF in the desert but you will need to be at >8500' for LA Centre to be able to hear and see you. Normally when flying out to Sedona area we don't bother with FF. Its absolutely glorious flying over the high desert not talking to anyone, doing what you want.
Sedona is fine, if you don't land there make sure you have loads of fuel, becasue next stop back which is not at any altitude is Laughlin at 130nm away.
You will probably need an instructor checkout for Catalina, but its worth it, its a great place to visit. Its not that tricky either, I used to be a bit scared of landing there but really there is tons of runway, just don't get low and slow. King Airs regularly land there, so an Archer should have no problem
If I remember rightly, the Chicken Ranch is a fly in brothel? 
Sedona is fine, if you don't land there make sure you have loads of fuel, becasue next stop back which is not at any altitude is Laughlin at 130nm away.
You will probably need an instructor checkout for Catalina, but its worth it, its a great place to visit. Its not that tricky either, I used to be a bit scared of landing there but really there is tons of runway, just don't get low and slow. King Airs regularly land there, so an Archer should have no problem
Chicken Ranch
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Flying the corridors over the Grand Canyon is a must-do, but don't worry about position reports, those are being given by the commercial sight seeing companies a thousand feet or so below you. Get flight following from LA Center and keep your head out of the cockpit. I'd recommend you take a GPS if you fly the Grand Canyon corridors as they aren't very wide and they don't like it if you bust the airspace. The minimum altitude outside the corridors is 14,000ft so you can cross that off in a 180HP archer with three on board. You also have to be taking O2 if cruising at 15,500 (VFR altitude heading east), and really should be on O2 if at 14,500 (west) and you are a flatlander from the UK.
MOAs are no big deal, just keep looking outside and if you can get radar identified then talk to Center. You can enter a restricted area with the permission of the controlling authority, these will be shown on the chart, just ask them. US ATC are superb.
MOAs are no big deal, just keep looking outside and if you can get radar identified then talk to Center. You can enter a restricted area with the permission of the controlling authority, these will be shown on the chart, just ask them. US ATC are superb.
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As mentioned above, MOAs should not be a particular problem. If you are flying VOR to VOR following an airway you won't be in a MOA. If not, check the activity status and you may well find they are not active anyway.
A GPS is nice but not essential - VFR navigation in the desert is easier than in the UK just because there is less to confuse you - if you see a small town, it will be fairly easy to identify because it will probably be the only one for miles around. The topological features on the map are also usually fairly clear if only because they are big.
A GPS is nice but not essential - VFR navigation in the desert is easier than in the UK just because there is less to confuse you - if you see a small town, it will be fairly easy to identify because it will probably be the only one for miles around. The topological features on the map are also usually fairly clear if only because they are big.
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Thanks for all the help! This kind of advice is invaluable. Would I need to purchase the Grand canyon chart if I were to just land at Canyon international rather than venturing out into the canyon?
The idea of flying over it sounds amazing, but as a few people mentioned GPS is invaluable and I doubt I will have one.
I'm hoping that aircraft performance won't be degraded too much, from what I have heard, the Canyon is high and cool rather than hot and high at this time of year.
slim_slag .... I don't like the idea of hypoxia, so don't worry I won't be flying that high lol
Englishal.... Isn't the Chicken ranch on aufweidersehn pet? Looks a cool place lol
VisaGeeza.... Are the avionics fairly basic at ADP then? As long as the planes fly ok I'm happy.
Vegas at night may be a problem, I will be driving to Vegas for a few days (stopping at New York, New York) but I may only fly there in the day time. I will be night checked, but I don't fancy straying too far away at night.
Everyone says that ATC are excellent in the area, so I look forward to using there service.
Has anyone flown into Koak?
Thanks for the replies
The idea of flying over it sounds amazing, but as a few people mentioned GPS is invaluable and I doubt I will have one.
I'm hoping that aircraft performance won't be degraded too much, from what I have heard, the Canyon is high and cool rather than hot and high at this time of year.
slim_slag .... I don't like the idea of hypoxia, so don't worry I won't be flying that high lol
Englishal.... Isn't the Chicken ranch on aufweidersehn pet? Looks a cool place lol
VisaGeeza.... Are the avionics fairly basic at ADP then? As long as the planes fly ok I'm happy.
Vegas at night may be a problem, I will be driving to Vegas for a few days (stopping at New York, New York) but I may only fly there in the day time. I will be night checked, but I don't fancy straying too far away at night.
Everyone says that ATC are excellent in the area, so I look forward to using there service.
Has anyone flown into Koak?
Thanks for the replies
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Some excellent points already made.
I flew the length of Death Valley last week. It's interesting at the moment because part of it is flooded!
It's true that it is surrounded by MOA's but the airspace within the valley is excluded below 3000' (Please be sure to check your chart on this). You are 'requested' to remain 2000' above the National Park (defined as the highest ground within 2000' of the aircraft) so you have a slot of 2000-3000' to cruise along. This is just as well since there is not much radio contact in the valley itself. You do have to cross the MOA to get in and out and radio contact may be a problem, but there is an FSS frequency at Furnace Creek and as said before, the MOA's are not restricted airspace. There's an article on MOA's in the current AOPA Pilot.
Regarding the Archer with 4 up (and presumably baggage), I wouldn't do that even at winter temps. Is it even permitted with full tanks in the w&b? I've actually witnessed 4 Brits turn up at an FBO in Vegas in the winter expecting to do this only to be told they need 2 aircraft or a twin.
Sedona is second nature to a UK pilot used to short runways and awkward approaches and a doddle compared with, say, Perranporth which is also on the edge of a cliff. But again, 4 up in a 180HP is marginal at best.
You don't need Oxygen in the Grand Canyon VFR corridors. Look at the special chart, which hasn't changed (unless I have this wrong) in about 10yrs or at National Park Service . I've been up to 11,500 but never 13,500. There used to be a chart with photo's of the landmarks on the back but I don't know if it's still available. I have a description at my own site .
Appropo of the above, I wouldn't fly this trip now without at least a hand held GPS. Even the cheapest will allow you to enter the exit/entry points you need. (But I did fly this terrain repeatedly before I had a GPS!!). My own technique is to use the GPS as a cross check for conventional navigation, because identifying surface features is what VFR touring is all about.
I flew the length of Death Valley last week. It's interesting at the moment because part of it is flooded!
It's true that it is surrounded by MOA's but the airspace within the valley is excluded below 3000' (Please be sure to check your chart on this). You are 'requested' to remain 2000' above the National Park (defined as the highest ground within 2000' of the aircraft) so you have a slot of 2000-3000' to cruise along. This is just as well since there is not much radio contact in the valley itself. You do have to cross the MOA to get in and out and radio contact may be a problem, but there is an FSS frequency at Furnace Creek and as said before, the MOA's are not restricted airspace. There's an article on MOA's in the current AOPA Pilot.
Regarding the Archer with 4 up (and presumably baggage), I wouldn't do that even at winter temps. Is it even permitted with full tanks in the w&b? I've actually witnessed 4 Brits turn up at an FBO in Vegas in the winter expecting to do this only to be told they need 2 aircraft or a twin.
Sedona is second nature to a UK pilot used to short runways and awkward approaches and a doddle compared with, say, Perranporth which is also on the edge of a cliff. But again, 4 up in a 180HP is marginal at best.
You don't need Oxygen in the Grand Canyon VFR corridors. Look at the special chart, which hasn't changed (unless I have this wrong) in about 10yrs or at National Park Service . I've been up to 11,500 but never 13,500. There used to be a chart with photo's of the landmarks on the back but I don't know if it's still available. I have a description at my own site .
Appropo of the above, I wouldn't fly this trip now without at least a hand held GPS. Even the cheapest will allow you to enter the exit/entry points you need. (But I did fly this terrain repeatedly before I had a GPS!!). My own technique is to use the GPS as a cross check for conventional navigation, because identifying surface features is what VFR touring is all about.
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Aircraft performance shouldn't be an issue, the runways will be long enough for you at Grand Canyon and Vegas and in fact everywhere else for that matter. the 180 Archer is more than adequate since it will be relatively cool. (providing there are no fatties on board) ATC will most likely vector you over the Hoover Dam from Las Vegas McCarran or North Las Vegas whichever you decide to rest the aircraft overnight. Signature at McCarran do charge for an overnight tie down and charge loads for fuel although they do discount the tie down if you buy fuel.
The approach into Vegas at night is absolutely superb!
I have never known any problems with engines or airframes with ADP aircraft but what are avionics?
I know they have plenty of INOP's, they are all clearly labelled!
The approach into Vegas at night is absolutely superb!
I have never known any problems with engines or airframes with ADP aircraft but what are avionics?
I know they have plenty of INOP's, they are all clearly labelled!
Last edited by VisaGeeza; 20th Jan 2005 at 10:20.
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david viewing.. There will only be 3 of us in the plane, and a tooth brush each lol We will be keeping baggage to a minimum!
Regarding a GPS I'm just having a look. Without spending silly money what would be a half decent unit to buy, possibly with a view to selling it on later?
Cheers
JAS
VisaGeeza ... So i should expect a HSI then LOL
They seem a really nice bunch of people at ADP and as they say, you get what you pay for.
Regarding a GPS I'm just having a look. Without spending silly money what would be a half decent unit to buy, possibly with a view to selling it on later?
Cheers
JAS
VisaGeeza ... So i should expect a HSI then
LOLThey seem a really nice bunch of people at ADP and as they say, you get what you pay for.
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J a s,
you don't need a fancy aviation all singing and dancing GPS, I use an old Garmin 12XL, they are dead cheap on ebay. Just put the lat/long of your waypoint in and every now and again make sure the arrow is pointing someway forwards.
If you don't want to (or cannot with a loaded and tired 180HP) go up to 10,500 in the narrow corridors then you can still fly over the canyon to the west of GCN. David Viewing put up a good map, if you look at the blue routes from GCN those will take you to/from vegas and you will avoid the 14000ft areas. There is a VOR at GCN so just tune it up and fly the 270 radial (approx).
Grand Canyon was absolutely brass-monkey freezing recently, DA would not be a problem, but wind was strong and ceilings were very low and there was ice and snow around. Keeps the tourists away, rooms at the rim were dirt cheap and available on the day. It's a very beautiful place when the snow is 2 feet deep on the rim, in six months time you will be in shorts and T-shirts and drinking litres of fluid to keep hydrated.
Flying into LAS at night is great, they will vector you in so your final approach parallels the strip, make sure you do it at night. However if you are worried about flying to catalena in a SEP you will not like flying over the canyon and desert at night. If you lose your engine you are in a lot of trouble, though if it's a full moon you will be able to see enough to know what you are going to hit, but not quite well enough to know whether it's a nice surface until it's too late.
If you need any charts PM me and I'll post some, I have lots of old ones around but nothing much has changed, buy current ones when you get there.
you don't need a fancy aviation all singing and dancing GPS, I use an old Garmin 12XL, they are dead cheap on ebay. Just put the lat/long of your waypoint in and every now and again make sure the arrow is pointing someway forwards.
If you don't want to (or cannot with a loaded and tired 180HP) go up to 10,500 in the narrow corridors then you can still fly over the canyon to the west of GCN. David Viewing put up a good map, if you look at the blue routes from GCN those will take you to/from vegas and you will avoid the 14000ft areas. There is a VOR at GCN so just tune it up and fly the 270 radial (approx).
Grand Canyon was absolutely brass-monkey freezing recently, DA would not be a problem, but wind was strong and ceilings were very low and there was ice and snow around. Keeps the tourists away, rooms at the rim were dirt cheap and available on the day. It's a very beautiful place when the snow is 2 feet deep on the rim, in six months time you will be in shorts and T-shirts and drinking litres of fluid to keep hydrated.
Flying into LAS at night is great, they will vector you in so your final approach parallels the strip, make sure you do it at night. However if you are worried about flying to catalena in a SEP you will not like flying over the canyon and desert at night. If you lose your engine you are in a lot of trouble, though if it's a full moon you will be able to see enough to know what you are going to hit, but not quite well enough to know whether it's a nice surface until it's too late.
If you need any charts PM me and I'll post some, I have lots of old ones around but nothing much has changed, buy current ones when you get there.
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slim_slag.. thanks for that, I bet the Canyon will look amazing! I'm sticking with day time flying in any area I'm not too sure of. I'm quite surprised that you can pick up a GPS fairly cheaply now, can anyone suggest a suitable model? Something that will do the job nicely but it does not need all the bells and whistles!
As a VFR flight, can I except vectors? Daft question I know sorry
As a VFR flight, can I except vectors? Daft question I know sorry
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VFR Flight Following is just that. They follow you along your route, giving you Altimeter Settings and any other information you request.
Each controller will hand you over to the next on a proper radar handover. They will vector you around traffic, they will even vector airliners around you.
When receiving a VFR Flight Following service and you're flying into a busy airfield such as San Jose they will ask if you're familiar with the area, if you reply "negative" (which is fine) then they will radar vector you onto downwind / base / final etc.
Class B controllers will normally vector VFR traffic around including altitudes, headings etc. If an instruction would take you into cloud then inform the controller that you are unable and suggest a different heading or altitude for them to give you.
One note... even if you're under a VFR Flight Following service. You are NOT cleared into Class B airspace until the controller says, "Arrow 47455 you are Cleared into Class Bravo Airspace at Five Thousand Five Hundred, Maintain Heading 190". Etc etc...
At bigger airfields at Class C / B airspace you will normally be given a Departure clearance such as "Arrow 47455 After Departure Climb runway heading 1000', left turn 140, climb and maintain 3000. Expect 6000 ten minutes after departure, Sqwark 2045", even if you're VFR (although the altitudes will be different)...
Don't forget to file your VFR Flight Plans when flying over the Desert, this can be done on the same great 1-800-WX-BRIEF number. Weather, NOTAMS etc... don't forget to ask for any TRA's, they should give them to you but at least if there are any problems and they get the tape recording out then you'll be on tape asking for such information.
Hope this helps.
Charlie Zulu.
Each controller will hand you over to the next on a proper radar handover. They will vector you around traffic, they will even vector airliners around you.
When receiving a VFR Flight Following service and you're flying into a busy airfield such as San Jose they will ask if you're familiar with the area, if you reply "negative" (which is fine) then they will radar vector you onto downwind / base / final etc.
Class B controllers will normally vector VFR traffic around including altitudes, headings etc. If an instruction would take you into cloud then inform the controller that you are unable and suggest a different heading or altitude for them to give you.
One note... even if you're under a VFR Flight Following service. You are NOT cleared into Class B airspace until the controller says, "Arrow 47455 you are Cleared into Class Bravo Airspace at Five Thousand Five Hundred, Maintain Heading 190". Etc etc...
At bigger airfields at Class C / B airspace you will normally be given a Departure clearance such as "Arrow 47455 After Departure Climb runway heading 1000', left turn 140, climb and maintain 3000. Expect 6000 ten minutes after departure, Sqwark 2045", even if you're VFR (although the altitudes will be different)...
Don't forget to file your VFR Flight Plans when flying over the Desert, this can be done on the same great 1-800-WX-BRIEF number. Weather, NOTAMS etc... don't forget to ask for any TRA's, they should give them to you but at least if there are any problems and they get the tape recording out then you'll be on tape asking for such information.
Hope this helps.
Charlie Zulu.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Good vis and no clouds hopefully
However, weather forcasting is on a different level to the tripe that we have to put up with and storms (and weather windows) are usually predicted days in advance. The all present Weather Channel gives you the picture wherever you are and the wonderful FSS briefers explain it to you in plain English. When they say "VFR not recommended" they mean it! So at least you can plan ahead.