Cirrus 22 Problems
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Nothing to touch the SR22?
I bought a Robin Regent in 01 and thought I'd treat my business to a new aircraft.
A good mate of mine has a 22 - very impressive.
The choice then fell between a 22 and another Regent. No problem for us to afford a 22.
22 - A lot faster, but then 135kts on 180 hp @40lit ph is nothing to be sniffed at. Lets not dismiss either the fact that we like flying so is an extra 40 kts or so that important?
Short field performance - I operate from a grass strip. My Regent has an unfactored MAUW takeoff of 320 metres.
Whilst the 22 will undoubtedly get in and out of short strips, I feel that its extra weight will require significant margins to be factored in when the ground is muddy ie 6 months of the year. These margins are the difference between what the book says and what your bottie tells you when the end of the strip is getting closer...
Ground-handling - My DR400, @ 635 kg plus fuel, is just about as much as I can push on my own on grass.
Cost - Is the 22 really worth two Robin Regents? Faster and more expensive means a lot more cost to operate the thing.
So, having thought carefully about a 22 I called Mistral - the Robin Agent ( as far as I'm concerned there is only one..) and as before swamped me with excellent service.
What did I get from the Cirrus Agent here? A brochure, a quote and not one follow up call.
Cirrus ain't the only choice, as fine an aircraft as it is. I'm buying another Regent. Hurrah for Robin.
All the best
HP
A good mate of mine has a 22 - very impressive.
The choice then fell between a 22 and another Regent. No problem for us to afford a 22.
22 - A lot faster, but then 135kts on 180 hp @40lit ph is nothing to be sniffed at. Lets not dismiss either the fact that we like flying so is an extra 40 kts or so that important?
Short field performance - I operate from a grass strip. My Regent has an unfactored MAUW takeoff of 320 metres.
Whilst the 22 will undoubtedly get in and out of short strips, I feel that its extra weight will require significant margins to be factored in when the ground is muddy ie 6 months of the year. These margins are the difference between what the book says and what your bottie tells you when the end of the strip is getting closer...
Ground-handling - My DR400, @ 635 kg plus fuel, is just about as much as I can push on my own on grass.
Cost - Is the 22 really worth two Robin Regents? Faster and more expensive means a lot more cost to operate the thing.
So, having thought carefully about a 22 I called Mistral - the Robin Agent ( as far as I'm concerned there is only one..) and as before swamped me with excellent service.
What did I get from the Cirrus Agent here? A brochure, a quote and not one follow up call.
Cirrus ain't the only choice, as fine an aircraft as it is. I'm buying another Regent. Hurrah for Robin.
All the best
HP
Carbonfibre-based lifeform
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its the mission!
Hairy plane
you have probably made the right decisions, but remember cirrus have an entry level plane at about £100K called the SRV
It really depends on the mission. Two weekends ago I dropped two friends to Toulouse. I left Booker at 0945 and was back 2 mins before they shut at 17:28 having flown 1114 nm in six and a half hours
I was completely relaxed and not tired after the two flights. It was done airliner style above the weather and IFR using the autopilot and all the facilities including my de-ice.
with 50 knot winds from the north fuel and flight times were hard to predict, but at all times while airborn my engine management systems were predicting accurate FOB and ETA s for every point in my flight plan.
If you need this kind of capability the SR22 really is the best value solution.
you have probably made the right decisions, but remember cirrus have an entry level plane at about £100K called the SRV
It really depends on the mission. Two weekends ago I dropped two friends to Toulouse. I left Booker at 0945 and was back 2 mins before they shut at 17:28 having flown 1114 nm in six and a half hours
I was completely relaxed and not tired after the two flights. It was done airliner style above the weather and IFR using the autopilot and all the facilities including my de-ice.
with 50 knot winds from the north fuel and flight times were hard to predict, but at all times while airborn my engine management systems were predicting accurate FOB and ETA s for every point in my flight plan.
If you need this kind of capability the SR22 really is the best value solution.
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Mmmm All very interesting.
I am a Cirrus Standardised instructor based in the UK, but not bias because I fly lots of different types
There are always comparisons between aircraft. Wouldn't the would be boring if there wasn't.
Different airplanes suit different pilots for different reasons.
The Cirrus SR20 and SR22 are fantastic aircraft, and I love instructing and flying in them. But there are other airplanes I love for different reasons.
I fly a Yak52. I'd take the Yak out for 30 mins to throw it around and do some aeros, but I wouldn't use it for a long distance flight.
The Yak pulls 7G. And boy have I felt it. The Cirrus doesn't, but that doesn't make it worse than the Yak.
Spin and Stalling
The Cirrus does have a high stall speed, but doesn't stall any more violently than anything else. Look at the PA38 if you want an aircraft with an unpredictable stall characteristic. Many a time it'll end up in a spin.
Too expensive to run?
ok 135kts, 180hp, 40litres, that's good for the Robin.
But defending the Cirrus 135kts, 310hp @ 55%, 10us gals(38litres), sounds the same if you ask me. With the excess power to fly at 180kts there if you need it, sounds pretty versatile.
But anyway, I have my pennies worth. Aaah that's better.
I've flown and instructed on about 25 different types. They all have good things and bad things I love and hate about them, but I haven't heard anything about problems with insurance companies or people desperate to sell them.
But hey, we all have our opinions.
I am a Cirrus Standardised instructor based in the UK, but not bias because I fly lots of different types
There are always comparisons between aircraft. Wouldn't the would be boring if there wasn't.
Different airplanes suit different pilots for different reasons.
The Cirrus SR20 and SR22 are fantastic aircraft, and I love instructing and flying in them. But there are other airplanes I love for different reasons.
I fly a Yak52. I'd take the Yak out for 30 mins to throw it around and do some aeros, but I wouldn't use it for a long distance flight.
The Yak pulls 7G. And boy have I felt it. The Cirrus doesn't, but that doesn't make it worse than the Yak.
Spin and Stalling
The Cirrus does have a high stall speed, but doesn't stall any more violently than anything else. Look at the PA38 if you want an aircraft with an unpredictable stall characteristic. Many a time it'll end up in a spin.
Too expensive to run?
ok 135kts, 180hp, 40litres, that's good for the Robin.
But defending the Cirrus 135kts, 310hp @ 55%, 10us gals(38litres), sounds the same if you ask me. With the excess power to fly at 180kts there if you need it, sounds pretty versatile.
But anyway, I have my pennies worth. Aaah that's better.
I've flown and instructed on about 25 different types. They all have good things and bad things I love and hate about them, but I haven't heard anything about problems with insurance companies or people desperate to sell them.
But hey, we all have our opinions.
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The UK rep is Caseright Ltd based at Turweston not General Enterprises the phone number is 01280 841111 . just for info the first SR20 is about to come on the G reg look out for G-OPSS
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I have just purchased a Cirrus through the guys at Turweston and have to say they were nothing but helpful and gave me all i wanted and when i wanted. I did however have a bit of a fight with the Dutch people who appear to have a strange idea of customer service!!!!
I think buying a Robin because one felt one had bad service is a bit strange and to be honest smacks of sour grapes as one never had enough money to buy what is the best GA aircraft around.
Happypilot
I think buying a Robin because one felt one had bad service is a bit strange and to be honest smacks of sour grapes as one never had enough money to buy what is the best GA aircraft around.
Happypilot
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Aircraft depreciate differently but when they get to about 10yrs old then you really see where your money has gone. If you look at the difference between a Cessna 210 and a Beech Bonanza you will see where the extra money went intially. It's the same with a Cirrus. Because the entire airframe is limited to 12k hours, as much as they try and make this sound like a huge amount on the webpage (cirrusdesign.com) but to be honest 2nd hand buyers will really look into this. It's really the same as buying a 2nd hand turbine aircraft. You need to pass the parcel before you end up having to overhaul or whatever!
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Incidentally what is the latest on the fitting of DME and ADF to an SR22? I was looking at a new SR22 2 years ago and the dealer wasn't particularly happy about the request, never mind that it is a legal requirement for any practical IFR in Europe.
With the LCD cockpit displays, they could have remote receivers and integrate the data into the display.
With the LCD cockpit displays, they could have remote receivers and integrate the data into the display.
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Cirrus v Robin
Hi Chipper,
Read my post again and you will understand why you are talking a load of b@ll@xxs.
I narrowed the choice between an SR22 and a new Robin and posted my own personal reasons. The fact that the Cirrus people at Turdy obviously have more SR22 customers than they can cope with, hence their decision not to make one follow-up call after their Email to me, was of course not the primary reason for sticking to a Robin.
I am pleased that your wallet is bigger than mine - you obviously know my bank managers really well.
HP
Read my post again and you will understand why you are talking a load of b@ll@xxs.
I narrowed the choice between an SR22 and a new Robin and posted my own personal reasons. The fact that the Cirrus people at Turdy obviously have more SR22 customers than they can cope with, hence their decision not to make one follow-up call after their Email to me, was of course not the primary reason for sticking to a Robin.
I am pleased that your wallet is bigger than mine - you obviously know my bank managers really well.
HP
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Have flown the aircraft Stik refers to (the Dave B machine which is based at Norwich and regularly jaunts down to Seething for fuel). Now I haven't done an extensive test on it but I did have 45 minutes of slow speed handling close up on a Cessna 150 in various configurations and positions / angles. Sorry to confirm that I didnt scare myself silly or end up in a pile of plastic due to that scary stall!. I have flown plenty worse.
Lets face it there are plenty of people who will find something to criticise if they don't like the machine in question. I prefer to look for the positives and be aware of things to avoid.
The SR22 is a great performing speed beast with an acceptable envelope.
If I had the money it would be on my list. Somewhere after the Bell 47 and the Pitts S2 (and yes Stik - I know the evidence is that this might be a waste of money for my ham fisted flying but I will learn how to tame it one day!).
Lets face it there are plenty of people who will find something to criticise if they don't like the machine in question. I prefer to look for the positives and be aware of things to avoid.
The SR22 is a great performing speed beast with an acceptable envelope.
If I had the money it would be on my list. Somewhere after the Bell 47 and the Pitts S2 (and yes Stik - I know the evidence is that this might be a waste of money for my ham fisted flying but I will learn how to tame it one day!).
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I started this thread in the Tech Log forum some time back, regarding the spin characteristics of the Cirrus SR20 & 22.
Cirrus SR20/22 - Was this a bad idea?
Not too much attention was give to the thread at the time. It has a number of good links to information explaining exactly why the Sirrus, and other new aircraft, have the particular spin characteristics that they have.
I was looking at this information because I was interested in an SR20 at the time.
Cirrus SR20/22 - Was this a bad idea?
Not too much attention was give to the thread at the time. It has a number of good links to information explaining exactly why the Sirrus, and other new aircraft, have the particular spin characteristics that they have.
I was looking at this information because I was interested in an SR20 at the time.
