Flightsimmers, how many of you here and how do you interact it with real flying?
Helicopter Pilots Get It Up Quicker
Join Date: Jun 2001
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I ve got Flight Sim 2000... Xmas present from my parents.
Thought it would be great as it has the Bell 206 helicopter on it but... I can't fly it to save my life, (I got over 200 hrs - 20 odd in the 206), and can fly the real thing without any problems!
I hoped I would be able to use it for the IR too but seem to spend too much time fiddling with the computer to use it constructively - guess you need all the add ons like rudder pedals, etc.
PW
Thought it would be great as it has the Bell 206 helicopter on it but... I can't fly it to save my life, (I got over 200 hrs - 20 odd in the 206), and can fly the real thing without any problems!
I hoped I would be able to use it for the IR too but seem to spend too much time fiddling with the computer to use it constructively - guess you need all the add ons like rudder pedals, etc.
PW
I've used it to play around with VOR's etc. but can't see much scope beyond that.
Strange how a few other people have tried spinning.... I can't get it to work, don't suppose it ever will compare to the real thing.
However, you can do strange things with the helicopters if you try. Basically get a bit of height, then start throwing the stick about. I ended up with it stuck in what I could only describe as having the helicopter tied onto the end of a 2 mile long rope and the person holding the other end was spinning me around. Even on closed throttle it continued.
Strange how a few other people have tried spinning.... I can't get it to work, don't suppose it ever will compare to the real thing.
However, you can do strange things with the helicopters if you try. Basically get a bit of height, then start throwing the stick about. I ended up with it stuck in what I could only describe as having the helicopter tied onto the end of a 2 mile long rope and the person holding the other end was spinning me around. Even on closed throttle it continued.
Join Date: May 2001
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The spinning issue in FS was only cleared up when RealAir brought out their lovely SF260 for FS2002 (shown in one of the threads above). They found that default FS aircraft couldn't spin properly because MS had applied flight dynamics to the whole wing as one unit - not as separate entities. The first true spinnable aircraft in FS were the SF260 and RealAir's Cessna 172 - the latter free of charge. In fact the RealAir C172 flies quite differently to the default C172 and is much more like the real aircraft.
In FS2004 things are better in that more aircraft can be spun correctly but only a few designers know how to implement this. As a result only a few of the default aircraft can be spun and very few add-on aircraft.
I agree with the other threads about helicopters - these are considerably more difficult to fly in FS than in real life.
Looking back at my postings on this topic shows a slightly negative attitude towards FS but that isn't the case - I really do enjoy using the product. If I hadn't I would not have spent the last decade building aircraft and scenery for it. Having said that I feel this had made me more aware of how much it can be used for emulating real world procedures.
As real as it gets? Almost - but it still has a fair way to go..
To PilotWolf..
May I recommend you dump your copy of FS2000 and try and get a cheap copy of FS2002 or treat yourself to FS2004. FS2000 was an AWFUL release and slow to load and run. FS2002 was actually faster with much better frame rates - essential for any helicopter flying.
In FS2004 things are better in that more aircraft can be spun correctly but only a few designers know how to implement this. As a result only a few of the default aircraft can be spun and very few add-on aircraft.
I agree with the other threads about helicopters - these are considerably more difficult to fly in FS than in real life.
Looking back at my postings on this topic shows a slightly negative attitude towards FS but that isn't the case - I really do enjoy using the product. If I hadn't I would not have spent the last decade building aircraft and scenery for it. Having said that I feel this had made me more aware of how much it can be used for emulating real world procedures.
As real as it gets? Almost - but it still has a fair way to go..
To PilotWolf..
May I recommend you dump your copy of FS2000 and try and get a cheap copy of FS2002 or treat yourself to FS2004. FS2000 was an AWFUL release and slow to load and run. FS2002 was actually faster with much better frame rates - essential for any helicopter flying.
Join Date: Dec 2003
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I have read all previous posts and cannot confirm all of them. Flight sims do not affect real-life flying in a negative way, at least not for me or other flying mates I personally know.
The MS FS series is indeed a killer in terms of providing the user with that "real feeling" of flying, but it's rather good for practising IR flights etc. The younger half of my gliding club in Germany used to "play" a gliding flight simulator quite intensively and some of these guys actually were able to improve their skills in getting their turns quickly centered in the thermals etc.
What I most liked simulator-wise were not the civil simulators, but the high-end military simulators like Jane's F-15 and Falcon 4.0. Can't say if they simulate the feeling of a F-15 or a F-16 correctly, but they in deed are a good trainer in terms of basic skills you need for flying - just think of data inflow your brain can manage etc (zooming thru a valley at 600kts, being shot at, evading SAMs, finding your way to the target, drop ordnance on the target at the planned time +- 30 sec, still being shot at, return to base, using the cannon for targets of opportunity you have to recognize first (gunning a truck at a speed of 600kts (you, not the truck
) is rather hard), eventually knocking out a Fulcrum, and landing again.)
I think all the hours of flying simulators, and that's more for the military sims and not for the civil sims, have improved my general flying skills. You are used to keeping an eye on everything, which might give you extra time if something up there is not working as it should be (and might help you to recognize that early). I've just had my flying aptitude at the Luftwaffe in early 04 and found these skills helpful there as well.
Of course a FS 172 cannot simulate the feeling of a real-life 172 accurately, meaning that you should not transfer your flight sim landing techniques that are successful in a sim a/c to 1:1 to the real life equivalent, but in a nutshell, there are huge similarities.
Could it be that low-hour student pilots think FS affects their landings because the FS plane which they accumulate more hours on is actually their second type of aircraft and they find it hard to switch between those?
Ok folks, enough talking about sims - it's a sunny Saturday and I am off for the real thing!
The MS FS series is indeed a killer in terms of providing the user with that "real feeling" of flying, but it's rather good for practising IR flights etc. The younger half of my gliding club in Germany used to "play" a gliding flight simulator quite intensively and some of these guys actually were able to improve their skills in getting their turns quickly centered in the thermals etc.
What I most liked simulator-wise were not the civil simulators, but the high-end military simulators like Jane's F-15 and Falcon 4.0. Can't say if they simulate the feeling of a F-15 or a F-16 correctly, but they in deed are a good trainer in terms of basic skills you need for flying - just think of data inflow your brain can manage etc (zooming thru a valley at 600kts, being shot at, evading SAMs, finding your way to the target, drop ordnance on the target at the planned time +- 30 sec, still being shot at, return to base, using the cannon for targets of opportunity you have to recognize first (gunning a truck at a speed of 600kts (you, not the truck
) is rather hard), eventually knocking out a Fulcrum, and landing again.) I think all the hours of flying simulators, and that's more for the military sims and not for the civil sims, have improved my general flying skills. You are used to keeping an eye on everything, which might give you extra time if something up there is not working as it should be (and might help you to recognize that early). I've just had my flying aptitude at the Luftwaffe in early 04 and found these skills helpful there as well.
Of course a FS 172 cannot simulate the feeling of a real-life 172 accurately, meaning that you should not transfer your flight sim landing techniques that are successful in a sim a/c to 1:1 to the real life equivalent, but in a nutshell, there are huge similarities.
Could it be that low-hour student pilots think FS affects their landings because the FS plane which they accumulate more hours on is actually their second type of aircraft and they find it hard to switch between those?
Ok folks, enough talking about sims - it's a sunny Saturday and I am off for the real thing!
Join Date: Feb 2004
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I run Microsoft Flight Simulator 2002 and it rocks! I have a microsoft force feedback joystick to go along with it, nothing fancy. In real life i fly a Pa-28-180, and unfortunatly the sim only came with a couple cessnas. However, after a bit of internet searching i found a 180 to download and now i fly the same airplane i do in real life. In times gone past, my instructor has often asked me how ive managed to remain so proficient, even after i hadn't flown for 1 or 2 months. Usually i just give him the 'not sure' anwser, but i know its that flight sim, i sincerly belive it has helped me alot. I'm ready for my checkride at 60 hours, which have beem spread out over the past 3 years, and 5 different airplanes. personally, i think thats pretty good and i give most of the credit to the flight sims.
Edit* Jabberwok is right, FS2002 does beat the hell out of FS2000, not only in graphics (BIG TIME) and performance, but also with the new ATC services. My god, if for no other reason, you should buy it for this incredible addition. The AI aircraft actually fly traffic patterns too
Tim
Edit* Jabberwok is right, FS2002 does beat the hell out of FS2000, not only in graphics (BIG TIME) and performance, but also with the new ATC services. My god, if for no other reason, you should buy it for this incredible addition. The AI aircraft actually fly traffic patterns too
Tim
Last edited by Thief13x; 19th Sep 2004 at 15:13.
Join Date: Feb 2003
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alternative to MSFS and X-plane
Try FlightGear, it's an open source alternative to MSFS, runs on both Windows and Linux and is free to download (its about 80Mb). Check out www.flightgear.org
You need a half-way decent graphics card though anything older than 3-4 years prob just won't do.
The flight models are much more realistic than anything Ive found in MSFS, though to be honest I ve only ever flown a PA28 and C152 for real. I believe this is due to a) better flight models and b) higher frame rates, especially when it gets interesting like in the flare.
Being open-source its under active development (currently at ver 0.96) and there is an enthusiastic and very helpful community mailing list. Details on the website. There are AI aircraft and ATC though not yet at the sophistication of MSFS. The basic download has scenery for ~100miles around KSFO and the rest of the world is available for free download too. Moves are afoot to integrate MSFS scenery too.
I agree with other posters that simming in general detracts from real flying and I don't really think its a Good Thing for the 1-20 hr PPL student. Excellent for the 0 hr student cos it keeps them interested and for the more experienced its good for radio and nav procedures.
Check it out, all it will cost is the download and some disk space. All joysticks, pedals etc can be made to work with it. I use a Saitek Evo and the pedals from a MS Sidewinder racing wheel. Bit of a hassle cos I have to have the wheel connected too but worth it unless you have a tiny desk. I think it would be feasible to use the wheel as a nose-wheel tiller on the big boys but I haven't got round to setting that up yet. After all my priority is to get a PPL on a PA28-140. I'd love to move up to a yoke and 'proper' pedals but that represents about 90 mins real flying.
You need a half-way decent graphics card though anything older than 3-4 years prob just won't do.
The flight models are much more realistic than anything Ive found in MSFS, though to be honest I ve only ever flown a PA28 and C152 for real. I believe this is due to a) better flight models and b) higher frame rates, especially when it gets interesting like in the flare.
Being open-source its under active development (currently at ver 0.96) and there is an enthusiastic and very helpful community mailing list. Details on the website. There are AI aircraft and ATC though not yet at the sophistication of MSFS. The basic download has scenery for ~100miles around KSFO and the rest of the world is available for free download too. Moves are afoot to integrate MSFS scenery too.
I agree with other posters that simming in general detracts from real flying and I don't really think its a Good Thing for the 1-20 hr PPL student. Excellent for the 0 hr student cos it keeps them interested and for the more experienced its good for radio and nav procedures.
Check it out, all it will cost is the download and some disk space. All joysticks, pedals etc can be made to work with it. I use a Saitek Evo and the pedals from a MS Sidewinder racing wheel. Bit of a hassle cos I have to have the wheel connected too but worth it unless you have a tiny desk. I think it would be feasible to use the wheel as a nose-wheel tiller on the big boys but I haven't got round to setting that up yet. After all my priority is to get a PPL on a PA28-140. I'd love to move up to a yoke and 'proper' pedals but that represents about 90 mins real flying.
