From Zero to Forty Five - my PPL Diary
Super-Friendly Aviator
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Reigate, UK
Age: 42
Posts: 424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I seem to be OK until I cut the revs at about 100', when the aircraft of course descends more rapidly. Panic then sets in and I pull back too hard, and it balloons and so on.
V1R
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: wakefield
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ch.flag and V1R
when I was learning I was told to cut the power at around 100ft and suffered all the problems you seem to be having, even after passing I never really felt confident with landings.
Then I flew with a much older and more experienced instructor who showed me to keep some power on much longer and only remove it after the flare to allow the aircraft to finally sink onto the runway. This avoided the allarming effect of having to point the nose at the ground to maintain airspeed just at a time when all your reactions are telling you to pull up!
I realise you can only do as your instructor says but it may be worth bearing the above in mind.
when I was learning I was told to cut the power at around 100ft and suffered all the problems you seem to be having, even after passing I never really felt confident with landings.
Then I flew with a much older and more experienced instructor who showed me to keep some power on much longer and only remove it after the flare to allow the aircraft to finally sink onto the runway. This avoided the allarming effect of having to point the nose at the ground to maintain airspeed just at a time when all your reactions are telling you to pull up!
I realise you can only do as your instructor says but it may be worth bearing the above in mind.
Spicy Meatball
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Liverpool UK
Age: 41
Posts: 1,115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guys
A problem which I used to have is that I was flaring too early, as the runway seemed to always look much closer than it actually was. The way I got around it was to wait for the tyre marks to appear on the runway - for some reason, you can only actually see them once you are quite close to the surface. This helped me to flare at the right time and not too high
A problem which I used to have is that I was flaring too early, as the runway seemed to always look much closer than it actually was. The way I got around it was to wait for the tyre marks to appear on the runway - for some reason, you can only actually see them once you are quite close to the surface. This helped me to flare at the right time and not too high
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Surrey
Age: 43
Posts: 900
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey guys, don't feel bad, the flare is pretty much the hardest thing you'll learn to do. There is no real way to 'teach' it. It is more about just feeling when the aircraft needs to be leveled out, and trust me, that feel will come in time.
All landings are different and so need to be treated as such. Sometimes you may be slightly too high and so may have to descend from 200ft with no power on at all (and maybe a sideslip if your really high!
) sometimes you may be shallow and so have to keep the power on untill well into the flare. Personally and trying to generalise, I pull off the power just as I begin the flare and just glide in to the hold off. Its pretty much what I've always done in gliders and so I know it well and its done me well so far.
Keep your heads up, you'll sort it out
All landings are different and so need to be treated as such. Sometimes you may be slightly too high and so may have to descend from 200ft with no power on at all (and maybe a sideslip if your really high!
) sometimes you may be shallow and so have to keep the power on untill well into the flare. Personally and trying to generalise, I pull off the power just as I begin the flare and just glide in to the hold off. Its pretty much what I've always done in gliders and so I know it well and its done me well so far.Keep your heads up, you'll sort it out
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ch. Flag,
If you look at the earlier pages, you'll see all of us have agonised over the flare height. I think most students go through two stages: too high (scared of contacting the ground) followed by too low (an overcorrection of the problem once it is recognised).
I guess your runway at East Mids is quite wide and long, which can also result in a high flare - you think you're closer to it than you are.
I woudn't worry about the height for pulling back the power, go for a nice stable approach speed with not too much change in attitude as you near the threshold.
Finally, one piece of advice that C-bert gave me in relation to take-offs, but applies equally to landings: Try to relax - it helps.
You might have already answered this, but what are you learning in?
HH
If you look at the earlier pages, you'll see all of us have agonised over the flare height. I think most students go through two stages: too high (scared of contacting the ground) followed by too low (an overcorrection of the problem once it is recognised).
I guess your runway at East Mids is quite wide and long, which can also result in a high flare - you think you're closer to it than you are.
I woudn't worry about the height for pulling back the power, go for a nice stable approach speed with not too much change in attitude as you near the threshold.
Finally, one piece of advice that C-bert gave me in relation to take-offs, but applies equally to landings: Try to relax - it helps.
You might have already answered this, but what are you learning in?
HH
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The noisy part of Papa 1-8 55 N 1 W
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mazzy : Try looking well ahead not at the ground.
Remember :- terra firma. The firma the ground ,The more terra.
If I remember correctly you are flying a Traumahawk,best of luck
not the easiest thing to fly.
Try approach over the fence @ 120 kts in a warrior,Good fun !!!!!
Fly safe All..
Remember :- terra firma. The firma the ground ,The more terra.
If I remember correctly you are flying a Traumahawk,best of luck
not the easiest thing to fly.
Try approach over the fence @ 120 kts in a warrior,Good fun !!!!!
Fly safe All..
PPruNaholic!
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Buckinghamshire
Age: 61
Posts: 1,615
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Above someone said
That is SO TRUE and bear in mind that even dozens (hundreds!?) of hours after you get your PPL, this will still flummox you on occasion! For example, if it's been a while since I've landed on a very wide (e.g. MIL) runway, I find that I misjudge it. But overall it's a bit like riding a bike... you just have to do it again and again and again until it "works".
Andy
don't feel bad, the flare is pretty much the hardest thing you'll learn to do.
Andy
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Northants
Age: 80
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just back from a lesson this morning, and BOY do I feel much better"". Did 5 circuits, and everything was vastly improved over yesterday's dumb performance. I discussed the cutting of power at 100' with my instructor (who has been at the school for 10 years), and he explained that at E.Mids, where there is huge runway space, leaving power cut until the flare is fine, but landing at smaller airfield, with much reduced runway length, a slower, steeper approach is needed, and that we'll be practising ALL types of approach over the coming lessons.
Anyway, back to today, I was still a bit flaring early, but not so much as yesterday. I learned not to fixate on the runway where I would touch down, but to look mainly at the runway horizon as I flare. This gave a much better perspective of the landing area, and whilst all 5 of my landings were a bit on the heavy side, they was much better than 24 hours previously.
Somehow, I felt more relaxed today than ever before, and seemingly able to trim the aircraft better, reducing effort and making life easier.
To complete my "rehab", I scored 92.5 on my second Air Law mock exam, so I will sit the pukker job next week...I really cannot wait to reading something different!!
I hope, Mazzy, That I'm not hi-jacking your thread too much!
Cheers all, have a great weekend (we're off down to the boat for a few days, to give me a break from aviation!!
Hampshire Hog, I\'m learning in a Warrior. Nice little aircraft to start in.
Anyway, back to today, I was still a bit flaring early, but not so much as yesterday. I learned not to fixate on the runway where I would touch down, but to look mainly at the runway horizon as I flare. This gave a much better perspective of the landing area, and whilst all 5 of my landings were a bit on the heavy side, they was much better than 24 hours previously.
Somehow, I felt more relaxed today than ever before, and seemingly able to trim the aircraft better, reducing effort and making life easier.
To complete my "rehab", I scored 92.5 on my second Air Law mock exam, so I will sit the pukker job next week...I really cannot wait to reading something different!!
I hope, Mazzy, That I'm not hi-jacking your thread too much!
Cheers all, have a great weekend (we're off down to the boat for a few days, to give me a break from aviation!!
Hampshire Hog, I\'m learning in a Warrior. Nice little aircraft to start in.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Surrey
Age: 43
Posts: 900
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yay! QXC done and dusted today 
Gorgeous day for it, silky smooth conditions and good viz. Had the ground briefing, this was loooong. Then out to the aircraft, inspection. Taxi out power checks complete, 25min hold waiting to go
Finally got in the air and set off for Prestwick. There was hardly any wind so it was easy going, got there in 40mins and did a gorgeous landing. Quickly got my bit of paper signed and a quick drink and I'm off again. Routed up to kilmarnock then round the glasgow control zone up to alloa. On to Newburgh and then into Dundee. Again a quick stop to pay landing fee and to get my second signature. Then off again back to Edinburgh. The whole trip was really good, very enjoyable. Tiring tho, I'll add to this description later with abit more detail, just want to chill for abit.
Happy flying! Surely some of you must have flown on a nice day like today?
Gorgeous day for it, silky smooth conditions and good viz. Had the ground briefing, this was loooong. Then out to the aircraft, inspection. Taxi out power checks complete, 25min hold waiting to go
Finally got in the air and set off for Prestwick. There was hardly any wind so it was easy going, got there in 40mins and did a gorgeous landing. Quickly got my bit of paper signed and a quick drink and I'm off again. Routed up to kilmarnock then round the glasgow control zone up to alloa. On to Newburgh and then into Dundee. Again a quick stop to pay landing fee and to get my second signature. Then off again back to Edinburgh. The whole trip was really good, very enjoyable. Tiring tho, I'll add to this description later with abit more detail, just want to chill for abit.
Happy flying! Surely some of you must have flown on a nice day like today?
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ch. Flag
I'm in the Warrior too.
As you say, a nice little aircraft, but the low wing makes judging the flare a bit harder.
If you're doing hard landings try this: remember the yoke is there to protect the nose-wheel. Keep holding it back through the whole landing. I still tend to let it go too early, with the resulting heavy thud onto the runway.
Sounds like it's going well though. Keep it up.
Blinkz, well done!
HH
I'm in the Warrior too.
As you say, a nice little aircraft, but the low wing makes judging the flare a bit harder.
If you're doing hard landings try this: remember the yoke is there to protect the nose-wheel. Keep holding it back through the whole landing. I still tend to let it go too early, with the resulting heavy thud onto the runway.
Sounds like it's going well though. Keep it up.
Blinkz, well done!
HH
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Northants
Age: 80
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
H.H.
As much as I'd like to blame the low wing on the Warrior, I think it's me, not the plane!!
Three lessons this week: tomorrrow, Thurs and Friday. Also (and I hardly dare tell you this just in case.....!) but I'm taking my Air Law exam tomorrow. Mocks have been OK, but I bet my luck doesn't hold out....!
Cheers all
C.F.
As much as I'd like to blame the low wing on the Warrior, I think it's me, not the plane!!
Three lessons this week: tomorrrow, Thurs and Friday. Also (and I hardly dare tell you this just in case.....!) but I'm taking my Air Law exam tomorrow. Mocks have been OK, but I bet my luck doesn't hold out....!
Cheers all
C.F.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Wide Brown Land
Age: 39
Posts: 516
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At least you guys are flying!!!
I keep running into troubles... first the aircraft goes u/s... then when it's back I get foiled by the weather (AGAIN!!) then I find out my instructor has left (gone bankrunning apparently), good for him but p$ss-poor timing for me... then the aircraft (Warrior) goes off to have a prop overhaul, away till end of next week - and I'm back at uni the week after that.
SO - called the flying school this morning, have officially given up on the Warrior and it's back to the Cessnut for the final two navs. Haven't flown a 152 in almost a year so this could be interesting.
Sooooo damn slow though....
At least it'll be cheaper I guess...
I keep running into troubles... first the aircraft goes u/s... then when it's back I get foiled by the weather (AGAIN!!) then I find out my instructor has left (gone bankrunning apparently), good for him but p$ss-poor timing for me... then the aircraft (Warrior) goes off to have a prop overhaul, away till end of next week - and I'm back at uni the week after that.
SO - called the flying school this morning, have officially given up on the Warrior and it's back to the Cessnut for the final two navs. Haven't flown a 152 in almost a year so this could be interesting.
Sooooo damn slow though....
At least it'll be cheaper I guess...
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Northants
Age: 80
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I PASSED!! Only 80% (Air Law), but a pass is a pass! I made the stupid mistake of going back and changing a couple of answers I was not sure about......and changed them from right to wrong (evidently it always happens that way).
1hr 20 mins of flying today, six circuits (a lot of commercial traffic today), so spent some time orbiting. Getting the hang of landing now, flaring later, and generally getting down OK. Also, he chucked in an engine failure a 300', which was a bit of a shock, but I went instinctively for the glide. Much more of that to come tomorrow it seems.
1hr 20 mins of flying today, six circuits (a lot of commercial traffic today), so spent some time orbiting. Getting the hang of landing now, flaring later, and generally getting down OK. Also, he chucked in an engine failure a 300', which was a bit of a shock, but I went instinctively for the glide. Much more of that to come tomorrow it seems.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Only 80% (Air Law), but a pass is a pass!
Wrong attitude. You are learning this stuff for a reason. The reason is not to pass exams: the reason is to avoid killing yourself and, more importantly, to avoid killing me.
If you got questions wrong on which colour paper the Chicago Convention was printed on then fair enough, who cares. But if you got questions wrong on rights of way in the air, then please warn me before you next fly up my way and I'll stay on the ground.
Super-Friendly Aviator
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Reigate, UK
Age: 42
Posts: 424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A little harsh Gertrude the Wombat!
Medical students don't get 100% in their exams and we let them practice medicine. ATPL students don't get 100% on their exams and are allowed to fly 400 people around the sky.
If the licencing authorties et al. had statistics that pilots with less than 100% in exams were consistently killing themselves and others more than those few (if any) who aced every exam then we might see pass marks of 100% in all examinations laid down. We don't.
I'm not sure you can accuse someone of having the wrong attitude to flying by a half-dozen word statement along the lines of "Phew! I passed my exam!"
Did you get 100% in every PPL exam? If so, then well done and good on you, but you'd be in the minority!
I see your line of reasoning that this stuff is learned for a tangible reason and not just as an academic activity and you're absolutely right but your comments to Chequeredflag are a little melodramatic.
My humble opinion,
V1R
Medical students don't get 100% in their exams and we let them practice medicine. ATPL students don't get 100% on their exams and are allowed to fly 400 people around the sky.
If the licencing authorties et al. had statistics that pilots with less than 100% in exams were consistently killing themselves and others more than those few (if any) who aced every exam then we might see pass marks of 100% in all examinations laid down. We don't.
I'm not sure you can accuse someone of having the wrong attitude to flying by a half-dozen word statement along the lines of "Phew! I passed my exam!"
Did you get 100% in every PPL exam? If so, then well done and good on you, but you'd be in the minority!
I see your line of reasoning that this stuff is learned for a tangible reason and not just as an academic activity and you're absolutely right but your comments to Chequeredflag are a little melodramatic.
My humble opinion,
V1R
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Northants
Age: 80
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh dear! A rather tongue in cheek comment rather seems to have upset you. For sure I was happy to pass, and if 80% was not OK, then the pass mark would NOT have been set at 75%, would it??. For your information, I was rather disappointed at my pass mark, 'cos in the mocks I got just under and well over 90%. Also I was pissed off with myself for changing two answers from right to wrong, which would have made it 85%. I have worked bloody hard at this exam, something I have not had to do for nearly 45 years.
So, as I said, a pass is a pass, and afterwards I had chance to see where I went wrong (which included a couple of silly mistakes, but I am only human), so please, get off your "Holier than thou", attitude and keep you mind on your own abilities
So, as I said, a pass is a pass, and afterwards I had chance to see where I went wrong (which included a couple of silly mistakes, but I am only human), so please, get off your "Holier than thou", attitude and keep you mind on your own abilities
The Original Whirly
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Posts: 4,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chequeredflag,
CONGRATULATIONS!!!! I felt just as you do; Air Law is a completely horrible exam; there are so many questions in it where you can't quite understand what it is they're asking. And there's so, so much to remember.
I think what Gertrude MEANT to say was something like this: "Well done for passing, but do bear in mind - and I'm sure you are - that Aviation Law is important and that you need to know a lot of this stuff before you go flying".
Anyway, you and I, and many others, can now breathe a sigh of relief that we don't need to remember all this stuff - just know where to look it up! Other than things like rights of way of course; it's a good idea to know about that kind of thing when you're up there.
Again, well done!
Whirly the Exam-Hater.
CONGRATULATIONS!!!! I felt just as you do; Air Law is a completely horrible exam; there are so many questions in it where you can't quite understand what it is they're asking.
And there's so, so much to remember.I think what Gertrude MEANT to say was something like this: "Well done for passing, but do bear in mind - and I'm sure you are - that Aviation Law is important and that you need to know a lot of this stuff before you go flying".
Anyway, you and I, and many others, can now breathe a sigh of relief that we don't need to remember all this stuff - just know where to look it up! Other than things like rights of way of course; it's a good idea to know about that kind of thing when you're up there.
Again, well done!
Whirly the Exam-Hater.