VFR in Scotland ??
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VFR in Scotland ??
Hi,
I'm considering moving up to Edinburgh from the South East, in fact it's fairly likely we will. Have heard all sorts about Scottish weather and was just wondering how many VFR days the guys and gals average in a year up there?
I'm most definitely going to start my PPL towards the end of the year and would just like some rough ideas of how frequently I'd be able to go fly!
Thanks
SF78
I'm considering moving up to Edinburgh from the South East, in fact it's fairly likely we will. Have heard all sorts about Scottish weather and was just wondering how many VFR days the guys and gals average in a year up there?
I'm most definitely going to start my PPL towards the end of the year and would just like some rough ideas of how frequently I'd be able to go fly!
Thanks
SF78
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What is it with you townies? I once had neighbours who moved out of London to Northants and were convinced they'd need a 4x4 as they were bound to be snowed in every winter as this was the countryside.
However, in fairness, Scotland does rather tend to have its own weather systems. Edinburgh and the Firth of Forth generally seems to suffer with mist and fog fairly regularly, especially through winter and spring, when the weather elsewhere is pretty good. That said, I don't think you'll find any great difference to the number of VFR flyable days to the south east, just Scottish VFR may be cloudier, colder and wetter than you're used too.
However, in fairness, Scotland does rather tend to have its own weather systems. Edinburgh and the Firth of Forth generally seems to suffer with mist and fog fairly regularly, especially through winter and spring, when the weather elsewhere is pretty good. That said, I don't think you'll find any great difference to the number of VFR flyable days to the south east, just Scottish VFR may be cloudier, colder and wetter than you're used too.
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Depends how you define VFR really.
Just came back from flying in Scotland, and I'd say that the instructors/regulars up there generally seem to be more comfortable about flying in 'bad' weather than their conterparts down-south.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about illegal or dangerous flying here, just a different attitude - kind of 'half full glass rather than half empty' - VFR until proven otherwise - 'you can always turn round and come back if you don't like it'. I was taken (by a very experienced instructor) flying down narrow valleys between mountains who's peaks were 2000 ft above us and well obscured in low cloud. The lesson was to make sure you could see a way out at the other end of the valley or have enough room to turn around, and to be decisive about what to do and when to turn around.
I don't so this sort of stuff solo, but it's made me more confident about flying in poor weather and allowed me to stretch my limits a bit. I've also been flying in WAY more wind than my normal club would allow (25 gusting 30 headwind for t/o and landing), and flown through some pretty heavy rain showers/poor vis. All good experience.
You'll enjoy flying up there - when you really can't fly you'll save money for the good weather days which can be REALLY stunning. Go for it, I say.
Just came back from flying in Scotland, and I'd say that the instructors/regulars up there generally seem to be more comfortable about flying in 'bad' weather than their conterparts down-south.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about illegal or dangerous flying here, just a different attitude - kind of 'half full glass rather than half empty' - VFR until proven otherwise - 'you can always turn round and come back if you don't like it'. I was taken (by a very experienced instructor) flying down narrow valleys between mountains who's peaks were 2000 ft above us and well obscured in low cloud. The lesson was to make sure you could see a way out at the other end of the valley or have enough room to turn around, and to be decisive about what to do and when to turn around.
I don't so this sort of stuff solo, but it's made me more confident about flying in poor weather and allowed me to stretch my limits a bit. I've also been flying in WAY more wind than my normal club would allow (25 gusting 30 headwind for t/o and landing), and flown through some pretty heavy rain showers/poor vis. All good experience.
You'll enjoy flying up there - when you really can't fly you'll save money for the good weather days which can be REALLY stunning. Go for it, I say.
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just a different attitude - kind of 'half full glass rather than half empty' - VFR until proven otherwise
It all depends on what sort of VFR flyer you are.
If its blue skies and light wind then you will not fly a lot.
If you enjoy dodging showers and strong winds and high ground in cloud then its for you.
We do not take more risks we are jsut more than happy to turn back or divert.
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Scottish pilots are cowards and are not afraid to admit it, and long may it continue .
Don't be put off by hearing that we fly in high winds, rain low cloud bases. Once you get used to its no problem. And you will be a better pilot for it. And the accident rate in scotland I am pretty certain isn't any worse than down south.
The scenery is great and there are some cracking fields dotted around with very reasonable landing fee's ( Stay well clear of ABZ GLA and EDI) all the rest around 10 quid or less PIK if you get the flying club to handle you comes out at about 10 quid including over night parking.
In INV last year I only had about 12 days which wern't flyable locally 8 of them due wind the rest low cloud.
Its well worth though having a valid IMC and being current on it.
MJ
.Don't be put off by hearing that we fly in high winds, rain low cloud bases. Once you get used to its no problem. And you will be a better pilot for it. And the accident rate in scotland I am pretty certain isn't any worse than down south.
The scenery is great and there are some cracking fields dotted around with very reasonable landing fee's ( Stay well clear of ABZ GLA and EDI) all the rest around 10 quid or less PIK if you get the flying club to handle you comes out at about 10 quid including over night parking.
In INV last year I only had about 12 days which wern't flyable locally 8 of them due wind the rest low cloud.
Its well worth though having a valid IMC and being current on it.
MJ
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Thanks for your replies -
I think that also settles my other dilema - where to get training. I was toying with the idea of starting at a JAA aproved school in South Africa when visiting my folks. But I'm starting to realise that it might help my flying more if I trained in Scottish conditions from the start.
SF78
I think that also settles my other dilema - where to get training. I was toying with the idea of starting at a JAA aproved school in South Africa when visiting my folks. But I'm starting to realise that it might help my flying more if I trained in Scottish conditions from the start.
SF78
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.... Learning to fly in Scotland
... well .... ? I can strongly recommend Inverness for learning. Beautiful scenery, bit of an introduction to the mountains and Scottish weather AND your qualifying cross-country might be over the sea to Orkney !!!
Word of advice - never believe the BBC reports about the weather up here.
I did my licence in Inverness in 3 weeks. Yes, 3 weeks. Only had 2 days scrubbed due to weather. The Moray Firth does tend to have a bit of a micro climate, much better and milder than other parts of Scotland - also the reason why there are 2 RAF bases (Lossiemouth and Kinloss) situated here.
I now fly from Glasgow, and if truth be told it is wetter on the west coast. Out of 10 bookings to fly, I probably cancel about 6 of them in the winter, and perhaps 3 in the summer due to weather. If I flew out of Prestwick (30 miles Southwest) it woudl be better as the weather is less localised there. However you get used to working out your own weather, best days are in behind cold fronts in the winter - can be a bit breezy but the vis is superb.
On the east coast you will get more fog (haar blowing in off the sea) but generally it is milder and sunnier than the west coast (only 60 miles away).
ANd of course, when you get your licence, you are but a short step away from the UKs only floatplane school !!
Word of advice - never believe the BBC reports about the weather up here.
I did my licence in Inverness in 3 weeks. Yes, 3 weeks. Only had 2 days scrubbed due to weather. The Moray Firth does tend to have a bit of a micro climate, much better and milder than other parts of Scotland - also the reason why there are 2 RAF bases (Lossiemouth and Kinloss) situated here.
I now fly from Glasgow, and if truth be told it is wetter on the west coast. Out of 10 bookings to fly, I probably cancel about 6 of them in the winter, and perhaps 3 in the summer due to weather. If I flew out of Prestwick (30 miles Southwest) it woudl be better as the weather is less localised there. However you get used to working out your own weather, best days are in behind cold fronts in the winter - can be a bit breezy but the vis is superb.
On the east coast you will get more fog (haar blowing in off the sea) but generally it is milder and sunnier than the west coast (only 60 miles away).
ANd of course, when you get your licence, you are but a short step away from the UKs only floatplane school !!
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PH-UKU is quite right in everything he says.
The weather is perhaps not as good as down south but is generally 'useable'. Last year, I did my tailwheel conversion at Prestwick - and struggled to find crosswind conditions that took me to the aeroplane limits (Chipmunk, and the civvy limits are only 10knots!) In 10 hours (20 sorties) of aerobatics, where I look at least for 4,500' cloudbase, I had to cancel only one trip.
Our weather is generally better than you might expect!
The weather is perhaps not as good as down south but is generally 'useable'. Last year, I did my tailwheel conversion at Prestwick - and struggled to find crosswind conditions that took me to the aeroplane limits (Chipmunk, and the civvy limits are only 10knots!) In 10 hours (20 sorties) of aerobatics, where I look at least for 4,500' cloudbase, I had to cancel only one trip.
Our weather is generally better than you might expect!
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Spitfire
I did my licence in SA. The JAA school has gone bust again anyway.
Go to Inverness - you really won't regret it. I fly there now having moved up here. It's a real flying club, not a school which churns out PPL's. Yes weather here can be challenging at times but as everyone says you'll be better for it.
Mad Jock would you care to expand on your previous post? You are being exceptionally irresponsible making comments like that. I would suggest you retract it or back it with hard evidence. From what I see it is a busy school with a firm base, no reason for problems. Yes we all know you worked there but when was that?
Cheers
SK
I did my licence in SA. The JAA school has gone bust again anyway.
Go to Inverness - you really won't regret it. I fly there now having moved up here. It's a real flying club, not a school which churns out PPL's. Yes weather here can be challenging at times but as everyone says you'll be better for it.
Mad Jock would you care to expand on your previous post? You are being exceptionally irresponsible making comments like that. I would suggest you retract it or back it with hard evidence. From what I see it is a busy school with a firm base, no reason for problems. Yes we all know you worked there but when was that?
Cheers
SK
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err don't have a clue where that one came from. Comment deleted.
Its pretty common knowledge up here that I parted company from the school on not good terms.
I thinks someone has been stirring things again. Password has now been changed.
MJ
Its pretty common knowledge up here that I parted company from the school on not good terms.
I thinks someone has been stirring things again. Password has now been changed.
MJ
Last edited by mad_jock; 30th Jun 2004 at 19:40.
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To be honest i don't really have a problem with the advice. But would say its valid for all Flying Schools, be it PPL or Commercial.
And its pretty standard advice from the Moderators in the wannabie section.
Don't pay up front.
Pay by CC
Don't buy blocks with discount.
I would certainly recommend flying around the Highlands using Inv for a base.
Anyway no doudt this will cause weeks of bitching and threats. And make even less members inclined to visit the flying club which is not what I want in any form.
MJ
And its pretty standard advice from the Moderators in the wannabie section.
Don't pay up front.
Pay by CC
Don't buy blocks with discount.
I would certainly recommend flying around the Highlands using Inv for a base.
Anyway no doudt this will cause weeks of bitching and threats. And make even less members inclined to visit the flying club which is not what I want in any form.
MJ
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Hmmm.... Inverness is roughly 115mi from Edinburgh by road. Ideally we need to live quite close to EDI, as both me and mrs spitfire will be based there (office desk jockeys)
That's probably a bit far out to be travelling for training... or has it been done before? Are there other schools / clubs a bit closer to EDI worth checking out? (PM me instead if that sort of discussion will cause problems on the forum!)
Thanks again for all the input!
SF78
That's probably a bit far out to be travelling for training... or has it been done before? Are there other schools / clubs a bit closer to EDI worth checking out? (PM me instead if that sort of discussion will cause problems on the forum!)
Thanks again for all the input!
SF78
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So what is your opinion then mad jock - get off the bloody fence. I read what you originally posted - was that a moment of weakness or was it your opinion?
Thinking about a PPL there, you've put me off.
If thats what you don't want why be deliberately evasive by saying
This was about getting a PPL, not flying around. You are indicating that there would be something wrong with actually using that club. Please state why. Is it just sour grapes or do you have a real point?
Thinking about a PPL there, you've put me off.
Anyway no doudt this will cause weeks of bitching and threats. And make even less members inclined to visit the flying club which is not what I want in any form.
I would certainly recommend flying around the Highlands using Inv for a base.
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JB, If you are refering to the post that has been deleted by MJ, then I believe he did not post what was written. Look up to his post about password change and put two and two together. 
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I am putting two and two together. Be realistic, how many false posts are really posted here. Not many. Then look for a motive - I believe MJ was fired by the school he slags off - reason enough?
I am looking for a PPL. If he slags a school off, let him be man enough to justify it, not hide behind some crap about password theft! At the end of the day he is messing with someones ivliehood.
I am looking for a PPL. If he slags a school off, let him be man enough to justify it, not hide behind some crap about password theft! At the end of the day he is messing with someones ivliehood.
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Nah i am not going to get pushed into a corner by a 4 post wonder.
My fault for using ie password remember but we all live and learn.
If you want to know anything about me and my instruction style and ability please post on pprune and ask the question. Out of the 17 students that passed first time in that 14months i think 12 of them are on pprune and i am sure they can tell you that i am to honest for my own good and utterly profesional when it comes to work, but have a tendency to open gob before engaging brain when it comes to diplomancy, such is life. But i have a sneaky suspiscion that you know that already james.
Read my posts james I must admit i maybe tend to go over the top on the subjects of OBA, Intergrated Courses and triple A over charging (breath in stop typing). But the one thing you can be fecking sure of is that i have the student at the top of my list.
MJ
As for the sacked thing thats always good for a laugh in the club. All the members know what happened that day, it really dosn't bother me , hot air with a hint of whisky isn't really a problem.
My fault for using ie password remember but we all live and learn.
If you want to know anything about me and my instruction style and ability please post on pprune and ask the question. Out of the 17 students that passed first time in that 14months i think 12 of them are on pprune and i am sure they can tell you that i am to honest for my own good and utterly profesional when it comes to work, but have a tendency to open gob before engaging brain when it comes to diplomancy, such is life. But i have a sneaky suspiscion that you know that already james.
Read my posts james I must admit i maybe tend to go over the top on the subjects of OBA, Intergrated Courses and triple A over charging (breath in stop typing). But the one thing you can be fecking sure of is that i have the student at the top of my list.
MJ
As for the sacked thing
thats always good for a laugh in the club. All the members know what happened that day, it really dosn't bother me , hot air with a hint of whisky isn't really a problem.
Last edited by BRL; 3rd Jul 2004 at 13:11.
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To answer Spitfires question, EDI has a flying club, I'm afraid I don't know much about it tho. I've got my class 1 medical on monday and if I pass that then I hope to be starting a PPL soon, with Edinburgh Flying club being top of my list sinces its 15mins drive from me
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james brown
Why would MJ slag off someone .... having obtained a decent airline job, thanks in no small way to his experiences and insight in to the airline world whilst at Inverness ???
You may be new to the game, but mostly people who have axes to grind are those who have not made it very far in their career plans and seem to think everyone else is to blame.
I have been a student of MJ's for a very short while and have absolutely no doubt he is a fine professional instructor .... which led to me passing a Skills Test with a CAA examiner in as short a time as I could have imagined possible. Unlikely such a person would be sacked for his ability .........
Why would MJ slag off someone .... having obtained a decent airline job, thanks in no small way to his experiences and insight in to the airline world whilst at Inverness ???
You may be new to the game, but mostly people who have axes to grind are those who have not made it very far in their career plans and seem to think everyone else is to blame.
I have been a student of MJ's for a very short while and have absolutely no doubt he is a fine professional instructor .... which led to me passing a Skills Test with a CAA examiner in as short a time as I could have imagined possible. Unlikely such a person would be sacked for his ability .........
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Ok, back to Scotland.
Best flying in the WORLD. (especally in the winter)
I fly North East about 3 times a month.
Friendly people (at least they are to the Irish)
Get up there, get some fresh air in your system and have a look.
Tony
Best flying in the WORLD. (especally in the winter)
I fly North East about 3 times a month.
Friendly people (at least they are to the Irish)
Get up there, get some fresh air in your system and have a look.
Tony