From Hansard, 18th May...
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Somewhat jaundiced view being aired here.
The list was cursory because I wasn't about to spend a lot of time doing research. It took very little effort to find a few politicians who thought an interest in aviation was worth putting in their biography.
Anne McIntosh, MP for the Vale of York asked a number of Parliamentary Questions at the request of one of her constituents, a PPL who posts on here. These resulted in the Chairmen of NATS and the CAA having to write letters as well as the Secretary of State for Transport. The pressure that was brought to bear was very instrumental in getting the problems with the NOTAM website sorted. I wrote to her as I was involved with the issue and she took care to ensure that all of the correspondence generated was copied to me.
As her husband is a Director of Delta Airlines I think you can take it that she is pro-aviation.
I fully accept that the NIMBY's have the bigger voice, but that's what a democracy is about and I for one am glad I live in one.
It is curious isn't it how there is a seemingly insatiable appetite for air travel and the export of jobs subsidised by tax-free fuel for holidays yet very few of these same people want airports? We poor bimblers burning our highly taxed fuel must form a very small proportion of the total number of people airborne in UK airspace at any time. I believe the forecast was for some 220,000 to pass through Gatwick today.
Mike
The list was cursory because I wasn't about to spend a lot of time doing research. It took very little effort to find a few politicians who thought an interest in aviation was worth putting in their biography.
Anne McIntosh, MP for the Vale of York asked a number of Parliamentary Questions at the request of one of her constituents, a PPL who posts on here. These resulted in the Chairmen of NATS and the CAA having to write letters as well as the Secretary of State for Transport. The pressure that was brought to bear was very instrumental in getting the problems with the NOTAM website sorted. I wrote to her as I was involved with the issue and she took care to ensure that all of the correspondence generated was copied to me.
As her husband is a Director of Delta Airlines I think you can take it that she is pro-aviation.
I fully accept that the NIMBY's have the bigger voice, but that's what a democracy is about and I for one am glad I live in one.
It is curious isn't it how there is a seemingly insatiable appetite for air travel and the export of jobs subsidised by tax-free fuel for holidays yet very few of these same people want airports? We poor bimblers burning our highly taxed fuel must form a very small proportion of the total number of people airborne in UK airspace at any time. I believe the forecast was for some 220,000 to pass through Gatwick today.
Mike
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Thanks Mike
Point taken and I am sure a little more research on my part too might turn up some more GA supporters in the House. My own cynicism of politicians is however quite justified having seen them at their most arrogant and self serving, when their guard was down out of the public eye.
As a Private Pilot I still see no real substantive political support for GA; on the contrary I see greater interference and bureaucracy creeping into every walk of life under this Government in particular.
Our lobbying power is of course limited by the number of votes we represent in society and this may have some bearing on the dearth of such support from MP's, No ?
Point taken and I am sure a little more research on my part too might turn up some more GA supporters in the House. My own cynicism of politicians is however quite justified having seen them at their most arrogant and self serving, when their guard was down out of the public eye.
As a Private Pilot I still see no real substantive political support for GA; on the contrary I see greater interference and bureaucracy creeping into every walk of life under this Government in particular.
Our lobbying power is of course limited by the number of votes we represent in society and this may have some bearing on the dearth of such support from MP's, No ?
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Have to agree with you. I too have a slightly cynical view of politicians in general. However as with all things there are exceptions to the rule. Don't know whether it's the UK in particular or worldwide but we appear to delight in the negative rather than celebrating the positive. It's therefore much easier for a moaning voice to be heard than a happy one and it's the voters who call the tune to which politicians dance.
Of course our dear CAA did the industry no favours with an attitude to noise reduction that saw people having to take silencers off of imported aircraft before they could go on the G reg. If you go to some of the gliding sites and listen to their tugs with 4 bladed props and silencers you can see (hear) what is possible. Our regulators seem incapable of devising a system that encourages innovation without severe cost penalties. Too often the "safety" card is played with inadequate justification. The ongoing debate about hi-viz at GA airfields is a simple example.
The introduction of Star Annuals is another. CAA discovered that aircraft were being signed off, by engineers licensed by the CAA, when they were not in compliance with their C of A (unauthorised mods, AD's not complied with etc). Instead of finding out why this was happening and fixing it, which would have cost them money, they just introduced the Star Annual where the aircraft had to be taken to an M3 every 3 years, neatly shifting the cost for the failings of the airworthines sytem on to the owner rather than those responsible for it.
Mike
Of course our dear CAA did the industry no favours with an attitude to noise reduction that saw people having to take silencers off of imported aircraft before they could go on the G reg. If you go to some of the gliding sites and listen to their tugs with 4 bladed props and silencers you can see (hear) what is possible. Our regulators seem incapable of devising a system that encourages innovation without severe cost penalties. Too often the "safety" card is played with inadequate justification. The ongoing debate about hi-viz at GA airfields is a simple example.
The introduction of Star Annuals is another. CAA discovered that aircraft were being signed off, by engineers licensed by the CAA, when they were not in compliance with their C of A (unauthorised mods, AD's not complied with etc). Instead of finding out why this was happening and fixing it, which would have cost them money, they just introduced the Star Annual where the aircraft had to be taken to an M3 every 3 years, neatly shifting the cost for the failings of the airworthines sytem on to the owner rather than those responsible for it.
Mike
Of course our dear CAA did the industry no favours with an attitude to noise reduction that saw people having to take silencers off of imported aircraft before they could go on the G reg.
There is much to criticise CAA for (Shadow groundings would be a good start this month, and if the hi-viz jacket thing is really something to do with CAA, that as well), but declining to approve an engine mod because the designer of that mod had refused to prove to them that it was safe, is not a hanging offence - criticise the nameless paranoid German who wouldn't provide some simple Engineering reports where it was him or her to blame.
Mind you, developing new aeronautical products in the UK has become almost impossible and unafordable and something does need to be done about that.
G
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If we could just make aircraft at GA fields more noisy and conspicuous, then we might not need the Hi Viz jackets ?
Are we in danger of "vehemently agreeing" the fundamental issue though, which is the dabbling faceless bureaucratic interference in a liberating pastime/sport/vocation which is populated by the Country's most responsible, highly trained and motivated (rich ) people ?
Are we in danger of "vehemently agreeing" the fundamental issue though, which is the dabbling faceless bureaucratic interference in a liberating pastime/sport/vocation which is populated by the Country's most responsible, highly trained and motivated (rich
) people ?
Last edited by Pilgrim101; 30th May 2004 at 14:42.
How many of the pilots who complain on here about a lack of representation are paid up members of organisations such as AOPA or the PFA?
I seem to remember an article where these organisations were trying to increase their membership to improve their lobbying power. Of course I realise that to join an organisation requires positive action by the person and it is easier just to complain.
I'm not a member of either, but then I'm not a pilot either.
I seem to remember an article where these organisations were trying to increase their membership to improve their lobbying power. Of course I realise that to join an organisation requires positive action by the person and it is easier just to complain.
I'm not a member of either, but then I'm not a pilot either.
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I don't see the relevance but I am a fully paid up member of AOPA, PFA and BMAA so I can complain to all three I fly a nice little biplane and a 3 axis microlight when I get the chance and always stick to the rules
I become a civilian again next month and intend to fly frequently in the UK but I confess it is becoming more and more difficult to enjoy what with the reams of regulation in our so called crowded airspace and the pressures on lovely little airfields all over the Country from a very few Nimby's with big mouths and an all too receptive authority disposed to nanny interference by its very political nature and so called green credentials. I can't help thinking there's a wee bit of jealousy in there too ?
Just where my complaints get me is another moot point though because without a critical mass of tens or hundreds of thousands of PPL voters there is only limited scope for them to lobby effectively about the ludicrous jobsworth mentality and downright amateurish interference in GA from the faceless ones.
I have seen recent evidence of "what if" scenarios being dreamed up to ground a perfectly safe aeroplane and if the same logic was applied across the board then every light aircraft in the Country should have been grounded on similar anticipated accident "safety" grounds. Lots of bent nosewheels, reprofiled props and shock loaded engines etc etc every year but thankfully very few casualties.
There's lots of sky up there with no speed cameras and very little scope for Big Brother to f
k us around provided we are responsible and practice the airmanship we are all so proud of. Maybe that's what pi$$es the "ruling class" off ?
I fly a nice little biplane and a 3 axis microlight when I get the chance and always stick to the rules I become a civilian again next month and intend to fly frequently in the UK but I confess it is becoming more and more difficult to enjoy what with the reams of regulation in our so called crowded airspace and the pressures on lovely little airfields all over the Country from a very few Nimby's with big mouths and an all too receptive authority disposed to nanny interference by its very political nature and so called green credentials. I can't help thinking there's a wee bit of jealousy in there too ?
Just where my complaints get me is another moot point though because without a critical mass of tens or hundreds of thousands of PPL voters there is only limited scope for them to lobby effectively about the ludicrous jobsworth mentality and downright amateurish interference in GA from the faceless ones.
I have seen recent evidence of "what if" scenarios being dreamed up to ground a perfectly safe aeroplane and if the same logic was applied across the board then every light aircraft in the Country should have been grounded on similar anticipated accident "safety" grounds. Lots of bent nosewheels, reprofiled props and shock loaded engines etc etc every year but thankfully very few casualties.
There's lots of sky up there with no speed cameras and very little scope for Big Brother to f
k us around provided we are responsible and practice the airmanship we are all so proud of. Maybe that's what pi$$es the "ruling class" off ?
