Jeppesen customer services
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Jeppesen customer services
Fellow Private Flyers,
I'm not really sure which forum this question belongs in, but I thought I'd start off here, since you lot are all my friends
and at least some of you are likely to be non-commercial customers of Jeppesen and so might have some advice for me.
Here's the story. When I completed my IMC rating last year, I bought a Jeppesen guide containing approach plates for all the UK and Ireland airports. Included in the price was a year's updates, mailed out each month. And each month, regular as clockwork, I received an update in the post and religiously kept my guide up to date (or at least updated it before I used it if a backlog of updates had built up while I wasn't using it).
And that's the way it stayed, until February, when I didn't receive an update. In fact, I didn't even realise this until I received the March update and realised that there was a gap. Ok, no big deal - things occassionally go missing in the post.
I found a customer service phone number on the Jeppesen website, and called them. I was put through to a call centre in Germany, but that was fine because the gentleman I spoke to seemed to speak perfect English, and he promised me that the missing update would be put in the post.
I waited a couple of weeks, and nothing happened. So I called them back again. This time, though, I couldn't find the number I'd called the first time (not sure if they updated their website, or if I just can't remember what links I pressed to get the number!), but instead I found the number of one of their UK offices. I spoke to a very helpful lady who told me she'd get the missing update mailed out immediately.
So, once again, I waited a copule of weeks... and once again nothing happened. This time, I called back the same UK office, and spoke to the same lady I spoke to the previous time. She checked on the computer, and confirmed that the update had indeed been mailed from Germany. All their updates are mailed from Germany, she told me (strange, because they often arrive with Swedish postmarks, but never mind!) I asked if there was any way of using a tracking service, bearing in mind that this particular update had now "gone missing" three times, but she told me this was not possible. The one which was mailed out should be with me shortly, she told me, but she'd order another one for me just in case.
Eight days later, to my surprise, I had a large envelope from Jeppesen arrive (with a Swedish postmark...), and the label on the front was different from usual, so I suspected I may finally have my February update. (By now, the regular April update had arrived.) I ripped the envelope open like an excited child, and inside was an update. The Packaging Slip confirmed that it was indeed the update from last February. But when I looked closely at the updated pages, I noticed that they were all dated April 2004. I compared this to my April update, and found that they were identical, despite what the Packaging Slip said.
So I now have two April updates, and no February updates. I phoned the office back, and the lady I have been dealing with was away. I was instead given a German number to call, and I spoke with a German gentleman who told me that he would put a February update in the post........
Now, just to complicate the issue, I have received an invoice from Jeppesen. They want me to pay them for the next 12 months' updates. I am rather reluctant to do this right now, since I can't use them (my guide isn't up to date to start with, and won't be no matter how many later updates I put in it until I get the February update). But on the other hand, I don't want to delay paying the invoice and risk missing another update... and having to go through this trouble once again!
So what would you do? Has anyone else ever had this kind of problem with Jeppesen, and if so, how did you fix it?
Thanks!
A very frustrated FFF
--------------------------
PS - Since I'm keeping busy doing my Flying Instructor course at the moment I haven't had a chance to do any instrument flying, so I haven't had to use the guide since it went out of date. Yet.
I'm not really sure which forum this question belongs in, but I thought I'd start off here, since you lot are all my friends
and at least some of you are likely to be non-commercial customers of Jeppesen and so might have some advice for me.Here's the story. When I completed my IMC rating last year, I bought a Jeppesen guide containing approach plates for all the UK and Ireland airports. Included in the price was a year's updates, mailed out each month. And each month, regular as clockwork, I received an update in the post and religiously kept my guide up to date (or at least updated it before I used it if a backlog of updates had built up while I wasn't using it).
And that's the way it stayed, until February, when I didn't receive an update. In fact, I didn't even realise this until I received the March update and realised that there was a gap. Ok, no big deal - things occassionally go missing in the post.
I found a customer service phone number on the Jeppesen website, and called them. I was put through to a call centre in Germany, but that was fine because the gentleman I spoke to seemed to speak perfect English, and he promised me that the missing update would be put in the post.
I waited a couple of weeks, and nothing happened. So I called them back again. This time, though, I couldn't find the number I'd called the first time (not sure if they updated their website, or if I just can't remember what links I pressed to get the number!), but instead I found the number of one of their UK offices. I spoke to a very helpful lady who told me she'd get the missing update mailed out immediately.
So, once again, I waited a copule of weeks... and once again nothing happened. This time, I called back the same UK office, and spoke to the same lady I spoke to the previous time. She checked on the computer, and confirmed that the update had indeed been mailed from Germany. All their updates are mailed from Germany, she told me (strange, because they often arrive with Swedish postmarks, but never mind!) I asked if there was any way of using a tracking service, bearing in mind that this particular update had now "gone missing" three times, but she told me this was not possible. The one which was mailed out should be with me shortly, she told me, but she'd order another one for me just in case.
Eight days later, to my surprise, I had a large envelope from Jeppesen arrive (with a Swedish postmark...), and the label on the front was different from usual, so I suspected I may finally have my February update. (By now, the regular April update had arrived.) I ripped the envelope open like an excited child, and inside was an update. The Packaging Slip confirmed that it was indeed the update from last February. But when I looked closely at the updated pages, I noticed that they were all dated April 2004. I compared this to my April update, and found that they were identical, despite what the Packaging Slip said.
So I now have two April updates, and no February updates. I phoned the office back, and the lady I have been dealing with was away. I was instead given a German number to call, and I spoke with a German gentleman who told me that he would put a February update in the post........
Now, just to complicate the issue, I have received an invoice from Jeppesen. They want me to pay them for the next 12 months' updates. I am rather reluctant to do this right now, since I can't use them (my guide isn't up to date to start with, and won't be no matter how many later updates I put in it until I get the February update). But on the other hand, I don't want to delay paying the invoice and risk missing another update... and having to go through this trouble once again!
So what would you do? Has anyone else ever had this kind of problem with Jeppesen, and if so, how did you fix it?
Thanks!
A very frustrated FFF
--------------------------
PS - Since I'm keeping busy doing my Flying Instructor course at the moment I haven't had a chance to do any instrument flying, so I haven't had to use the guide since it went out of date. Yet.
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Whilst it is widely known that Jeppesen can make the odd slip up and is not always on the cutting edge of technology they do usually respond pretty prompt to an appropriate moan (like yours obviously is)
Certainly in my experience they are usually pretty good and forthcoming to rectify errors on their part.
I would have said that your experience is pretty atypical and certainly does not compare to what mine has been, so ring them again and moan.
I usually ring the German office and deal with them direct.
I hated the paper updates so much that I got myself the JeppView thing. So much less hassle.
FD
Certainly in my experience they are usually pretty good and forthcoming to rectify errors on their part.
I would have said that your experience is pretty atypical and certainly does not compare to what mine has been, so ring them again and moan.
I usually ring the German office and deal with them direct.
I hated the paper updates so much that I got myself the JeppView thing. So much less hassle.
FD
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Sounds like you just fell out of the loop. It's like that with large companies, no matter how many times you contact them, it's just imposible to rectify the situation.
I just got my Jep TU04 update invoice today. £138 for a year. I can't beleive it, the original binder version only cost about £150. I'm considering subscribing to an online service like Gcap, http://www.gcap.co.uk/.
Does anyone use it? Is it worth it for a PPL IMC?
I just got my Jep TU04 update invoice today. £138 for a year. I can't beleive it, the original binder version only cost about £150. I'm considering subscribing to an online service like Gcap, http://www.gcap.co.uk/.
Does anyone use it? Is it worth it for a PPL IMC?
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I find that the regular update stuff seems to work just fine - once you are "in the system" - and the fact that you haven't paid the renewal yet will not, generally, stop the updates arriving.
One-off requests, however, are rarely dealt with efficiently. We order trip kits several times a year and they are, mostly, late or non-arriving. Even when we pay for overnight courier.
The customer service people in England are very nice, helpful and apologetic when things don't happen. But all orders come from Germany and they seem to have trouble posting things out.
One-off requests, however, are rarely dealt with efficiently. We order trip kits several times a year and they are, mostly, late or non-arriving. Even when we pay for overnight courier.
The customer service people in England are very nice, helpful and apologetic when things don't happen. But all orders come from Germany and they seem to have trouble posting things out.
Some more money for Capt PPRuNe
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FFF, I had the same type of problems as you've experienced in respect of Flightmap updates & services. Updates were slow to arrive, they put me on the wrong update service (once per yr instead of 3 times yearly). In the end I dealt with their Washington branch who at least were reasonably responsive.
I have also been disappointed with the Flightmap software - it is quite "buggy," the updates are expensive + the VFR raster overlays (the VFR chart lookalikes) are not updated at all! I have given up on using it for the future - there's plenty of good flight planning / moving map software out there anyway which is much cheaper.
Fuji
I have also been disappointed with the Flightmap software - it is quite "buggy," the updates are expensive + the VFR raster overlays (the VFR chart lookalikes) are not updated at all! I have given up on using it for the future - there's plenty of good flight planning / moving map software out there anyway which is much cheaper.
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First class customer service
I have subscribed to the Botlang airfield manual for last 15 years and I have had the occasional missing plate and once the whole months revision went missing , A quick fax or email corrected the problem within the week.
Two years back they moved offices and the revision to my airway manual stopped tuning up each week that took two emains to sort and a few weeks as they had lost the record of my payment.
However when they did get it sorted they sent the whole new manual set via UPS.
Jepps do make the odd mistake but when you tell them about it corrective action is usualy swift as is the action if you flag up an error on one of there products ( unlike the UK alternative who took three years to act on an error that I told them about on an approach plate ).
On the whole I am very happy with the Jepp service and the product is light years ahead of the others on the market.
Two years back they moved offices and the revision to my airway manual stopped tuning up each week that took two emains to sort and a few weeks as they had lost the record of my payment.
However when they did get it sorted they sent the whole new manual set via UPS.
Jepps do make the odd mistake but when you tell them about it corrective action is usualy swift as is the action if you flag up an error on one of there products ( unlike the UK alternative who took three years to act on an error that I told them about on an approach plate ).
On the whole I am very happy with the Jepp service and the product is light years ahead of the others on the market.
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Official PPRuNe Chaplain
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I've had a Bottlang sub for many years, and never a hiccup.
It took about six or seven phone calls to get the monthly Jepp database update for the GNS430 to work correctly, but they were very courteous and prompt. The underlying Jepp account system seems to be a little "quixotic" - it insisted the Group GNS sub should be in my name, although I set it up in the Group name. The software needed a patch to work with Windows XP, and there are some other little trickies - but we got there.
A European IFR sub is an expensive thing, so I download the charts I want from AIS, or the French site, or the Eurocontrol site (in that order) as I need them.
It took about six or seven phone calls to get the monthly Jepp database update for the GNS430 to work correctly, but they were very courteous and prompt. The underlying Jepp account system seems to be a little "quixotic" - it insisted the Group GNS sub should be in my name, although I set it up in the Group name. The software needed a patch to work with Windows XP, and there are some other little trickies - but we got there.
A European IFR sub is an expensive thing, so I download the charts I want from AIS, or the French site, or the Eurocontrol site (in that order) as I need them.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Hmm, seems like I'm not the only one to have had problems, and Rustle's link shows it's been going on for a while.
Yawningdog, the renewal fee is actually 138 Euros, not £138 - payable by bank transfer. Not sure how much the bank will charge to transfer the money... the last time I had to transfer an amount in Euros to a foreign bank it cost me more in bank charges than the amount I had to pay. Given that, and given that it's only £169 for a new manual from Transair, I might just forget about the February update, and once I've got enough time to go and do some IFR flying I'll buy a new one. Might swap to Aerad, too, since they're the same price!
Interesting suggestions about getting them free on-line. How many people actually do this? I thought about it, but rejected the idea, on the basis that I want to have a full set with me in case I need to divert (and we all know that real-life diversions are rarely into the fields which you plan to divert into before the flight!) However, downloading them and printing them as I need them would certainly be acceptable for flying around under foggles in VMC with a safety pilot next to me (which is all I'm good for with my present level of IMC currency anyway) - so I might give that a go before handing over another large wad of money to anyone.
Thanks for all the input, guys!
FFF
--------------
Yawningdog, the renewal fee is actually 138 Euros, not £138 - payable by bank transfer. Not sure how much the bank will charge to transfer the money... the last time I had to transfer an amount in Euros to a foreign bank it cost me more in bank charges than the amount I had to pay. Given that, and given that it's only £169 for a new manual from Transair, I might just forget about the February update, and once I've got enough time to go and do some IFR flying I'll buy a new one. Might swap to Aerad, too, since they're the same price!
Interesting suggestions about getting them free on-line. How many people actually do this? I thought about it, but rejected the idea, on the basis that I want to have a full set with me in case I need to divert (and we all know that real-life diversions are rarely into the fields which you plan to divert into before the flight!) However, downloading them and printing them as I need them would certainly be acceptable for flying around under foggles in VMC with a safety pilot next to me (which is all I'm good for with my present level of IMC currency anyway) - so I might give that a go before handing over another large wad of money to anyone.
Thanks for all the input, guys!
FFF
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FFF
Even though the invoice for renewals says paybale via bank, I've always done mine by credit card, either over the phone or by e-mail (Ok, the latter's not 100% secure, but I've been ok so far). I think saying that "it's been going on for a while" when referring to rustle's link is a bit unfair - just have a look at the dates of the postings compared to now.
Never had any problems, change of address has always gone through ok if they get warning and an effective date. Quite happy with the product (I've got a Jepp T-UK 04 and the Bottlang 'D' Euro manuals) and don't see myself changing. Even order my VFR charts and other bits from them direct as a registered customer. Always been very prompt.
Even though the invoice for renewals says paybale via bank, I've always done mine by credit card, either over the phone or by e-mail (Ok, the latter's not 100% secure, but I've been ok so far). I think saying that "it's been going on for a while" when referring to rustle's link is a bit unfair - just have a look at the dates of the postings compared to now.
Never had any problems, change of address has always gone through ok if they get warning and an effective date. Quite happy with the product (I've got a Jepp T-UK 04 and the Bottlang 'D' Euro manuals) and don't see myself changing. Even order my VFR charts and other bits from them direct as a registered customer. Always been very prompt.
Missing amendments happen no matter which supplier you use. Jeppesen, Aerad, Oz DAPs etc etc. My experience has been that they generally run OK once you're in the system but all have occasional hiccups with 'one off' amendment re-issues. They're all apologetic when you phone, and they all promise to correct the problem ASAP.
Choose your brand of documents based on price & whether you like the contents/binding/layout.
Choose your brand of documents based on price & whether you like the contents/binding/layout.
Sub Judice Angel Lovegod
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FFF
I have had a number of problems with Jepp, all resolved by speaking to the right people, so if you do not get a resolution eMail me (or PM if you don't have my eMail ) and I will make some suggestions.
Overall, my impression is that they really want to help but are hampered by procedures imposed by the US which dont' make allowances for differences in Europe.
Timothy
I have had a number of problems with Jepp, all resolved by speaking to the right people, so if you do not get a resolution eMail me (or PM if you don't have my eMail ) and I will make some suggestions.
Overall, my impression is that they really want to help but are hampered by procedures imposed by the US which dont' make allowances for differences in Europe.
Timothy
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I'd like to take this opportunity of responding to some of the above comments and also dispel some of the myths that abound about Jeppesen, its products and customer service.
The European office was set up in 1957 when the company won the contract to supply the US Army worldwide with instrument flight charts. The US office had been in operation since 1934, and Captain Jeppesen, who had retired from United to run the charting business, found it meaningful to serve the Army's European operations locally. Frankfurt's proximity to Army's HQ at Heidelberg and its international airport were deciding factors in the choice of location.
Every week an Army truck would pull up in front of the Kaiserstrasse 77 office to pick up the latest Manuals and disgorge a load of binders and flight cases for repair. The Army's TM-11 Airway Manual is what we know today as the Europe-Mediterannean ERM04. Helicopter pilots in Germany used the half-mill 'low-level flight charts' North and South Germany, which ceased production long before the appearance of the VFR+GPS charts but provided useful experience in topo charting as it turned out later.
The Army ceased using Jepps operationally in around 1967, by which time sufficient civilian customers had been acquired to carry on, and there was also TWA's European operations in Paris who needed a local Jeppesen presence. Our flagship UK customer was Britannia with a manual-per-pilot set up, and I recall their Deputy Chief Pilot Roy McDougall gaining a Queen's recommendation for his work in aviation, included in the citation being the Jeppesen Charter Manual, an ERM which omitted smaller airfields not used by the carrier, conceived by Roy. By that time Jeppesen had worldwide IFR coverage.
Bottlang was acquired in 1986, and celebrated its 40th Anniversary last month.
FliteStar and FliteMap were taken on with the acquisition of Mentor, a Portland, Oregon company.
JeppView is Jeppesen's alternative electronic IFR service, with SIDs, STARs and IAPs appearing every two weeks on CD. Enroute and Terminal Area Charts are still in paper form.
The TUK04 Manual was conceived to offer IMC rating holders an alternative to the AERAD guide. Amendments (revisions) are produced on a 28-day basis (as are the Bottlangs). Otherwise, paper revisions to the major European coverages are issued weekly, other regional coverages on a bi-weekly basis.
The UK office, near Gatwick, was acquired when Jeppesen took on the Lockheed Jetplan department of that well-known manufacturer. Its main role is that of international trip planning, mainly for operators of executive jets, but it has also shown its versatility in supporting Polly Vacher in her two round-the-world flights, culminating in her return 'from the Ice' at the end of April in Birmingham.
Another, very vital, UK office, in Newbury, provides an updating service for airline route manuals and delivers them on board with a fleet of vans and sub-offices in strategic locations.
Customer service is based in Neu-Isenburg, 7 kms south of Frankfurt and is reachable via email at [email protected] or by sending an email on the website at Jeppesen.com. The email for customer in the Americas and Pacific is [email protected] and in Australasia contact [email protected].
The migration to Oracle as a business system in 2001 was painful to say the least and offered us many pitfalls we hadn't thought of. I'd like to think we have tamed it and that it now works for us. As to getting things wrong sometimes, we do, but the majority of requests are on the ball. Please help by being precise, quoting your customer number (it's on your revision envelope and renewal invoices), state the date you need to get your trip kit order by, try to state which revision number you are missing. If you need an update for FliteStar provide your serial number, and whether you'd like more than just a one-time update. We'll be happy to quote the relative costs.
We have a relatively small service team, some of which are still in training (any idea how long it takes to teach someone the ins and outs of a 100-page catalogue??). In fact it's never-ending and I should know, I've been in Frankfurt nigh on 39 years! I look after fra-services for my sins, and will try to ensure that all your needs are properly handled.
And do read some of the FAQs on the website, and above all read the series of articles on charting, etc written by Jim Terpstra. You'll find them under Aviation Resources and Online Publications.
I hope this will be of interest and that your moderator will not view it as advertising. Feel free to PM me with anything that is bugging you.
Best Wishes,
Alan Lathan
The European office was set up in 1957 when the company won the contract to supply the US Army worldwide with instrument flight charts. The US office had been in operation since 1934, and Captain Jeppesen, who had retired from United to run the charting business, found it meaningful to serve the Army's European operations locally. Frankfurt's proximity to Army's HQ at Heidelberg and its international airport were deciding factors in the choice of location.
Every week an Army truck would pull up in front of the Kaiserstrasse 77 office to pick up the latest Manuals and disgorge a load of binders and flight cases for repair. The Army's TM-11 Airway Manual is what we know today as the Europe-Mediterannean ERM04. Helicopter pilots in Germany used the half-mill 'low-level flight charts' North and South Germany, which ceased production long before the appearance of the VFR+GPS charts but provided useful experience in topo charting as it turned out later.
The Army ceased using Jepps operationally in around 1967, by which time sufficient civilian customers had been acquired to carry on, and there was also TWA's European operations in Paris who needed a local Jeppesen presence. Our flagship UK customer was Britannia with a manual-per-pilot set up, and I recall their Deputy Chief Pilot Roy McDougall gaining a Queen's recommendation for his work in aviation, included in the citation being the Jeppesen Charter Manual, an ERM which omitted smaller airfields not used by the carrier, conceived by Roy. By that time Jeppesen had worldwide IFR coverage.
Bottlang was acquired in 1986, and celebrated its 40th Anniversary last month.
FliteStar and FliteMap were taken on with the acquisition of Mentor, a Portland, Oregon company.
JeppView is Jeppesen's alternative electronic IFR service, with SIDs, STARs and IAPs appearing every two weeks on CD. Enroute and Terminal Area Charts are still in paper form.
The TUK04 Manual was conceived to offer IMC rating holders an alternative to the AERAD guide. Amendments (revisions) are produced on a 28-day basis (as are the Bottlangs). Otherwise, paper revisions to the major European coverages are issued weekly, other regional coverages on a bi-weekly basis.
The UK office, near Gatwick, was acquired when Jeppesen took on the Lockheed Jetplan department of that well-known manufacturer. Its main role is that of international trip planning, mainly for operators of executive jets, but it has also shown its versatility in supporting Polly Vacher in her two round-the-world flights, culminating in her return 'from the Ice' at the end of April in Birmingham.
Another, very vital, UK office, in Newbury, provides an updating service for airline route manuals and delivers them on board with a fleet of vans and sub-offices in strategic locations.
Customer service is based in Neu-Isenburg, 7 kms south of Frankfurt and is reachable via email at [email protected] or by sending an email on the website at Jeppesen.com. The email for customer in the Americas and Pacific is [email protected] and in Australasia contact [email protected].
The migration to Oracle as a business system in 2001 was painful to say the least and offered us many pitfalls we hadn't thought of. I'd like to think we have tamed it and that it now works for us. As to getting things wrong sometimes, we do, but the majority of requests are on the ball. Please help by being precise, quoting your customer number (it's on your revision envelope and renewal invoices), state the date you need to get your trip kit order by, try to state which revision number you are missing. If you need an update for FliteStar provide your serial number, and whether you'd like more than just a one-time update. We'll be happy to quote the relative costs.
We have a relatively small service team, some of which are still in training (any idea how long it takes to teach someone the ins and outs of a 100-page catalogue??). In fact it's never-ending and I should know, I've been in Frankfurt nigh on 39 years! I look after fra-services for my sins, and will try to ensure that all your needs are properly handled.
And do read some of the FAQs on the website, and above all read the series of articles on charting, etc written by Jim Terpstra. You'll find them under Aviation Resources and Online Publications.
I hope this will be of interest and that your moderator will not view it as advertising. Feel free to PM me with anything that is bugging you.
Best Wishes,
Alan Lathan
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I have been very impressed with the service from Jepp. I get the botlang manual and the Jeppview electronic plate service and every 2 weeks the amendments turn up without a problem. I also use flight star which as a program I am very impressed with but it still has a few niggles that drive me nuts, like it not working with a Garmin GPS 196 and the eratic natire of the online database updates but otherwise Jepp provide a great service.
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Thanks both, nice to hear from you.
One thing I ought to mention too, is that your revisions now come to you direct via German mail, instead of being shunted up to Scandinavia by Fedex to be put in the local mail there. We had to resort to that because the mail charges got ridiculous, but now they have agreed terms, and it has made a big difference. In fact, you receive your revisions before many German domestic customers do!
Towels out chaps! (I'll get thumped tomorrow!)
cheers
Alan
aka atb1943
One thing I ought to mention too, is that your revisions now come to you direct via German mail, instead of being shunted up to Scandinavia by Fedex to be put in the local mail there. We had to resort to that because the mail charges got ridiculous, but now they have agreed terms, and it has made a big difference. In fact, you receive your revisions before many German domestic customers do!
Towels out chaps! (I'll get thumped tomorrow!)
cheers
Alan
aka atb1943
