Am i really gonna have to pay 6 Grand!!!
Flies for fun
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BEagle, If the photo's are circa 1965 then the condition of the aircraft may have changed somewhat since then! How about a direction to a more recent link?
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Beagle,
The 1965 theory has just been busted by checking the build year of G-BNRG in one of the photos... the CAA G-INFO Database states 1981!!!!
However I guess you meant the photos on http://www.qsl.net/g3tso/Pictures.html
The 1965 theory has just been busted by checking the build year of G-BNRG in one of the photos... the CAA G-INFO Database states 1981!!!!
However I guess you meant the photos on http://www.qsl.net/g3tso/Pictures.html
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loadsa dosh!
Hi!
Thanks for all your replies guys. The majority seem to agree that its gonna cost me a fair whack! I am looking to go professional but should that all go brown side up i would really love to be able to afford flying as a hobby, may it be an expensive one at that!
Every month i do happen to have a couple of hundred quid burning a hole but only enough for say a lesson per month. Anyone advise getting a loan over a short period say five years so the capital is there?
kempus
Thanks for all your replies guys. The majority seem to agree that its gonna cost me a fair whack! I am looking to go professional but should that all go brown side up i would really love to be able to afford flying as a hobby, may it be an expensive one at that!
Every month i do happen to have a couple of hundred quid burning a hole but only enough for say a lesson per month. Anyone advise getting a loan over a short period say five years so the capital is there?
kempus
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I’d try and fly a bit more than 1 hour per month, or you might find that half your lesson is spent relearning skills that have now gone rusty.
Everyone is different, but I’d suggest a lesson every fortnight should be the absolute minimum.
Everyone is different, but I’d suggest a lesson every fortnight should be the absolute minimum.
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Back to what Gengis said...
If you have a couple of hundred a month to spend, my advice would be to save five or six hundred and do a one or two week gliding course in the summer at a club near to you. This should easily get you to solo standard. Spend that couple of hundred each month by gliding every week if you can. You should easily make bronze C within the year which (I think ... the rules may have changed) gets you about 15 or 20 hrs off a PPL, and teaches you LOADS! save over the following winter then either go NPPL or JAR PPL or even Stateside and hit the PPL training hard next summer.
I know this seems a bit long winded but you'll be all the better equipped to quickly and easily do your PPL for the experience.
SS
If you have a couple of hundred a month to spend, my advice would be to save five or six hundred and do a one or two week gliding course in the summer at a club near to you. This should easily get you to solo standard. Spend that couple of hundred each month by gliding every week if you can. You should easily make bronze C within the year which (I think ... the rules may have changed) gets you about 15 or 20 hrs off a PPL, and teaches you LOADS! save over the following winter then either go NPPL or JAR PPL or even Stateside and hit the PPL training hard next summer.
I know this seems a bit long winded but you'll be all the better equipped to quickly and easily do your PPL for the experience.
SS
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Gliding is not everyones cup of tea. It is somewhat restrictive in terms of actually being able to go anywhere and involves a lot of 3 and 4 minute flights at most winch launched clubs followed by a lot of pushing and shoving of gliders. Getting aero tows sees the price rise steeply but still presents the same limitations on travel.
A lot of people want to learn to fly to go places, carry pax and generally enjoy the fun of powered flight.
I don't think telling someone to forget a PPL (short or long term)and learn to glide instead is very good advice. A lot of people start to glide realise it involves a great deal of commitment towards the chosen club to be able to get any decent flying and give up. Usually never bothering to try powered flight instead. I have seen this happen many times.
And no this is not a bias on gliding, as a 20 year glider pilot both RAFGA and BGA I love gliding but I think you are overrating its value here.
A lot of people want to learn to fly to go places, carry pax and generally enjoy the fun of powered flight.
I don't think telling someone to forget a PPL (short or long term)and learn to glide instead is very good advice. A lot of people start to glide realise it involves a great deal of commitment towards the chosen club to be able to get any decent flying and give up. Usually never bothering to try powered flight instead. I have seen this happen many times.
And no this is not a bias on gliding, as a 20 year glider pilot both RAFGA and BGA I love gliding but I think you are overrating its value here.
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Kempus,
First the negative comment - Yes, it IS expensive.
Now the rest of what I want to say - If your dream is to go commercial one day, I think you owe it to yourself to make the absolute best effort to achieve it. How will you feel if, in ten years time, you look back at this moment and wish you'd gone for it?
If fulfilling your dream means making sacrifices, then so be it.
If you drive a nice car, think about selling it and getting something a bit smaller or older. If you're a home owner, as Gertrude the Wombat says, realise some of the equity. Cut down on the beer or fags if those are applicable.
Cancel some of your Friday or Saturday nights on the lash, and sit at home with the PPL Confuser. You'll save money and gain vital knowledge at the same time.
If your chosen club / school aren't flying on a particular day, due to weather for example, still make the effort to go there, spend the hour sitting in the aeroplane running through cockpit procedures and drills, or talking to the older hands. You'll be amazed at how much you can learn, and how much easier it makes your next flight!
Immerse yourself in aviation. Revel in the knowledge that every time you fly, you are doing something that we, as mere human beings, aren't designed to do. You're raising two fingers up to Mother Nature, sticking your tongue out, and blowing a raspberry at her.
Even if you never make it to the comercial world (although I hope that you do!), surely that feeling alone will have been worth paying for?
First the negative comment - Yes, it IS expensive.
Now the rest of what I want to say - If your dream is to go commercial one day, I think you owe it to yourself to make the absolute best effort to achieve it. How will you feel if, in ten years time, you look back at this moment and wish you'd gone for it?
If fulfilling your dream means making sacrifices, then so be it.
If you drive a nice car, think about selling it and getting something a bit smaller or older. If you're a home owner, as Gertrude the Wombat says, realise some of the equity. Cut down on the beer or fags if those are applicable.
Cancel some of your Friday or Saturday nights on the lash, and sit at home with the PPL Confuser. You'll save money and gain vital knowledge at the same time.
If your chosen club / school aren't flying on a particular day, due to weather for example, still make the effort to go there, spend the hour sitting in the aeroplane running through cockpit procedures and drills, or talking to the older hands. You'll be amazed at how much you can learn, and how much easier it makes your next flight!
Immerse yourself in aviation. Revel in the knowledge that every time you fly, you are doing something that we, as mere human beings, aren't designed to do. You're raising two fingers up to Mother Nature, sticking your tongue out, and blowing a raspberry at her.
Even if you never make it to the comercial world (although I hope that you do!), surely that feeling alone will have been worth paying for?
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Genghis, Kempus mentioned in his last post that
Sorry, finger trouble! Kempus mentioned that he is looking to go professional. I think that's something most PPL's aspire to but as a mere PPL(A), I just enjoy the fun aspect of flying while I gain more experience. I would love to go commercial as I'm sure most other PPL's would but the financial restrictions tend to hold us back
If you can Kempus, try and get in with an RAF Flying Club. It will save you a few quid, otherwise the gliding route is an excellent way in!
LHD
Sorry, finger trouble! Kempus mentioned that he is looking to go professional. I think that's something most PPL's aspire to but as a mere PPL(A), I just enjoy the fun aspect of flying while I gain more experience. I would love to go commercial as I'm sure most other PPL's would but the financial restrictions tend to hold us back
If you can Kempus, try and get in with an RAF Flying Club. It will save you a few quid, otherwise the gliding route is an excellent way in!
LHD
Oh yes, so he did I missed that.
Nonetheless, this is the private flying forum and I think that discussion on going professional really does belong elsewhere - unless it's directly related to the professions supporting private flying.
Mind you I think that you're wrong - most PPLs in my experience aspire to enjoying their flying safely, and not to being commercial pilots. It just happens that many (not all!) flying instructors aspire to being commercial pilots and they perhaps tend to assume that everybody else does as well.
G
Professional supporting private flying, no desire to be a commercial pilot either.
Nonetheless, this is the private flying forum and I think that discussion on going professional really does belong elsewhere - unless it's directly related to the professions supporting private flying.
Mind you I think that you're wrong - most PPLs in my experience aspire to enjoying their flying safely, and not to being commercial pilots. It just happens that many (not all!) flying instructors aspire to being commercial pilots and they perhaps tend to assume that everybody else does as well.
G
Professional supporting private flying, no desire to be a commercial pilot either.
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Sensible - £100 per hour plus VAT and landing fee is a little steep, even for the south coast. You should be able to get it for that even at a commercial club at a large commercial airfield with a landing card. Obviously the two companies I work for both could offer around that price which is how I know, but the intention is not to advertise because there are many that are similar price or cheaper. Force the people who sell you services to compete!
Interestingly the dual rate at £160 is not too bad. I think that the club you used may also be underpaying the instructors, as most do
That is one consideration when people are concerned at the cost of flight training. Remember you are paying an instructor as little as £6.25 per hour, in one club I know of (£12.50 per flying hour, takes about 2 hours work to fly an hour), for a very seasonal job that required £40,000 worth of self-sponsored training! We are all, to a degree, volunteers. I have so far only been paid for flying a tiny fraction of what I have paid out.
Interestingly the dual rate at £160 is not too bad. I think that the club you used may also be underpaying the instructors, as most do
That is one consideration when people are concerned at the cost of flight training. Remember you are paying an instructor as little as £6.25 per hour, in one club I know of (£12.50 per flying hour, takes about 2 hours work to fly an hour), for a very seasonal job that required £40,000 worth of self-sponsored training! We are all, to a degree, volunteers. I have so far only been paid for flying a tiny fraction of what I have paid out.
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hi guys!
Sorry if you think my post should be elsewhere. I do eventually intend to go comercial but there are many reasons why i may not be able to do that and in the meantime would like to be able to gain my PPL and be able to afford to fly! That's my main concern!
I work for an airline at the mo cos i love the buzz of being in the air and would like to take it further by being able to control an aircraft.
Some of the ideas and tips are great and i hope they keep coming!
cheers!
kempus
Sorry if you think my post should be elsewhere. I do eventually intend to go comercial but there are many reasons why i may not be able to do that and in the meantime would like to be able to gain my PPL and be able to afford to fly! That's my main concern!
I work for an airline at the mo cos i love the buzz of being in the air and would like to take it further by being able to control an aircraft.
Some of the ideas and tips are great and i hope they keep coming!
cheers!
kempus
CZ and Sensible - the ac shots are from June 2000. The late afternoon/early evening of 7 June 2000, to be exact. I know that very well - because I flew as photo chase and took that photo of the 4-ship (over Hook Norton, British West Oxfordshire) and I also designed the paint scheme! It's 'flag blue' and 'solar gold' - the work was done by Mick Allan at Turwesty (and earlier at Spanhoe).
'twas the amateur radio photos from 1965 to which I was referring!
'twas the amateur radio photos from 1965 to which I was referring!
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And what about touring motor gliders ?
A lot of gliding clubs have a motor Falke around the place which can cost about half the cost of a spam can. A lot of the early PPl training is just getting used to the controls and making it go where you want to.
According to the Derek Piggot books I've read, people aspiring to fly gliders might be well advised to get some powered experience so that they can learn the basic handling skills since you don't get much time to do this in early glider training.
TMGs are used by glider clubs to extend flights and to give the opportunity for touch and goes to consolidate landing technique. Apart from that, they tend to be a little unloved because glider pilots think that they're poor gliders and powered pilots scarcely know that they exist.
Whilst I consider gliding a fine and excellent form of aviation, I gave up trying that as a route because the early training is actually more expensive than powered on an hourly basis. Now that I've got a PPL I might return since I believe thatI'd be excused the fifty flights before solo that are normally compulsory.
My PPL cost about 5500 GBP including 63.5 hours flying.The test fee and land aways cost extra as did any training materials . The school I used has put its fees up, but I think they're still reasonable. If you're a more able student than me (probably) then you could be looking at less than five thousand.
I think it's worth choosing a training organisation that doesn't require extra fees for landings at the home field because the cost of circuit training could really stack up if you do a lot of touch and goes. I didn't have to pay extra for landings, nor was there a charge for exams.
A lot of gliding clubs have a motor Falke around the place which can cost about half the cost of a spam can. A lot of the early PPl training is just getting used to the controls and making it go where you want to.
According to the Derek Piggot books I've read, people aspiring to fly gliders might be well advised to get some powered experience so that they can learn the basic handling skills since you don't get much time to do this in early glider training.
TMGs are used by glider clubs to extend flights and to give the opportunity for touch and goes to consolidate landing technique. Apart from that, they tend to be a little unloved because glider pilots think that they're poor gliders and powered pilots scarcely know that they exist.
Whilst I consider gliding a fine and excellent form of aviation, I gave up trying that as a route because the early training is actually more expensive than powered on an hourly basis. Now that I've got a PPL I might return since I believe thatI'd be excused the fifty flights before solo that are normally compulsory.
My PPL cost about 5500 GBP including 63.5 hours flying.The test fee and land aways cost extra as did any training materials . The school I used has put its fees up, but I think they're still reasonable. If you're a more able student than me (probably) then you could be looking at less than five thousand.
I think it's worth choosing a training organisation that doesn't require extra fees for landings at the home field because the cost of circuit training could really stack up if you do a lot of touch and goes. I didn't have to pay extra for landings, nor was there a charge for exams.
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Whilst I consider gliding a fine and excellent form of aviation, I gave up trying that as a route because the early training is actually more expensive than powered on an hourly basis.
I also agree with Bose-X that learning to fly gliders is probably an inefficient first step for someone who aspires to become a commercial airplane pilot. Personally I enjoy the social aspects that come from all of the waiting around of the soaring world, but it is not for everyone, particularly someone with limited time.
Much of my own flying is inexpensive, because I fly my gliding club towplane and instruct in gliders: both are unpaid positions, but offer 'free' flying. But of course there really is no such thing as a free lunch. I don't mind occasionally paying to rent an aircraft, as the freedom to go off where you want, when you want, is priceless.
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Kempus,
I haven't trawled through the other pages so this may have been said before, but the only people who pay £6000+ are people with more money than sense. With the exchange rate as it is at the moment, if you go to the States for 3 weeks you can go from total ab-intio to JAA PPL with night rating for around £3,000 including your flight over. This includes everything you'll need and no, it's not necessary to do the exams or spend any money before you go. When you return, you'll need a couple of hours of UK 'acclimitisation' (I needed 4) and then you can rent/buy a share while other people spend up to three times as much and take 50 times as long.
Ignore all the 'if you want to fly in the UK, you should do your license in the UK' comments because they're total rubbish. Check out schools in the US (or even Canada and S Africa) via pprune and book your ticket.
Re flying when you get back - I pay £45pm and £45ph (for 6 hours pm - that's the cost of my former smoking habit) for a 4-seat Piper in the South of England - it's possible to do it even cheaper.
I haven't trawled through the other pages so this may have been said before, but the only people who pay £6000+ are people with more money than sense. With the exchange rate as it is at the moment, if you go to the States for 3 weeks you can go from total ab-intio to JAA PPL with night rating for around £3,000 including your flight over. This includes everything you'll need and no, it's not necessary to do the exams or spend any money before you go. When you return, you'll need a couple of hours of UK 'acclimitisation' (I needed 4) and then you can rent/buy a share while other people spend up to three times as much and take 50 times as long.
Ignore all the 'if you want to fly in the UK, you should do your license in the UK' comments because they're total rubbish. Check out schools in the US (or even Canada and S Africa) via pprune and book your ticket.
Re flying when you get back - I pay £45pm and £45ph (for 6 hours pm - that's the cost of my former smoking habit) for a 4-seat Piper in the South of England - it's possible to do it even cheaper.
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Go to a club that doesn't charge so much (i.e. oop north) like I did. My school currently charges £75 per hour dual in a (well maintained) C150, incl VAT, landings etc. At 45 hours that's £3375, plus your ground school, exams etc, so should be doable at around £4500.
Still a lot, but not 6 grand.
Still a lot, but not 6 grand.
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Now that I've got a PPL I might return since I believe thatI'd be excused the fifty flights before solo that are normally compulsory.
SS
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Beagle,
Has the PA28 that suffered at the hands (or jetwash) and a Tupolev recovered yet? (Friend of mine from work who used to be in the Signals flew with BNFC - BTW I always assumed it was a forces only club - if civvies are allowed can I come and play if and when I move to Oxon?)
Kempus,
The flying clubs darn sarf are bleedin expensive, but, I have to say that the one I fly from seems very good - the aircraft are getting better as they get newer (no such thing as a new aircraft in the UK as far as I can see), and a mate of mine flies from the other, slightly more northerly one, and that seems good as well by all accounts. They always seem to quote for a package that looks quite good, but bear in mind that you may well need more than 45 hours to complete your JAR PPL(A), and so this is where the additional costs come in. Not to mention the Gucci headset, kneeboard and other paraphenalia that you "must have to be a proper pilot".
Money saving tip - don't buy CAP413 from your club - download it from the CAAs website. Its only a couple of quid, but every penny counts....
Has the PA28 that suffered at the hands (or jetwash) and a Tupolev recovered yet? (Friend of mine from work who used to be in the Signals flew with BNFC - BTW I always assumed it was a forces only club - if civvies are allowed can I come and play if and when I move to Oxon?)
Kempus,
The flying clubs darn sarf are bleedin expensive, but, I have to say that the one I fly from seems very good - the aircraft are getting better as they get newer (no such thing as a new aircraft in the UK as far as I can see), and a mate of mine flies from the other, slightly more northerly one, and that seems good as well by all accounts. They always seem to quote for a package that looks quite good, but bear in mind that you may well need more than 45 hours to complete your JAR PPL(A), and so this is where the additional costs come in. Not to mention the Gucci headset, kneeboard and other paraphenalia that you "must have to be a proper pilot".
Money saving tip - don't buy CAP413 from your club - download it from the CAAs website. Its only a couple of quid, but every penny counts....