25 Stones and wanting a PPL
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Flyin'Dutch' - yes, I get that impression! Am simply going to try another AME. Wasn't intending on limiting myself to NPPL, just getting the NPPL fitness declaration so going solo isn't held up unnecessarily.
Hang on, this guy's asked for help. I don't recall him asking our opinion on his weight.
Is it that constructive telling him he's a f.b. ?
Does anyone make judgements about our participation in a risk sport ? How would you feel if the casualty doc. said "I'm not referring you for spinal surgery, because you knew the risk when you went flying."
Is it that constructive telling him he's a f.b. ?
Does anyone make judgements about our participation in a risk sport ? How would you feel if the casualty doc. said "I'm not referring you for spinal surgery, because you knew the risk when you went flying."
PPruNaholic!
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No matter how much we want to help our friend, I am afraid there will be practical issues for him - not just learning but renting afterwards.
I am a big guy - not ashamed to admit to 5'10 and 17 1/2 stone. This precludes, for example, spinning with an instructor in a PA38 for example, and can also mean max three people in a PA28-140 say with fuel to tabs!
These problems can be solved - with money as has been said (e.g. P28B = no worries for four rugby players a crate of beer and a big load of fuel). The point is to realise that the extra cost is not only going to be during training but also when renting.
Having said all that, if the guy has a goal and the finances it will surely make him feel great to achieve that goal: so save up and go for it!
Andy
I am a big guy - not ashamed to admit to 5'10 and 17 1/2 stone. This precludes, for example, spinning with an instructor in a PA38 for example, and can also mean max three people in a PA28-140 say with fuel to tabs!
These problems can be solved - with money as has been said (e.g. P28B = no worries for four rugby players a crate of beer and a big load of fuel). The point is to realise that the extra cost is not only going to be during training but also when renting.
Having said all that, if the guy has a goal and the finances it will surely make him feel great to achieve that goal: so save up and go for it!
Andy
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I'm a big lad myself - no amount of weight loss will alter that; I'm just well-built. It does rule out the 152 which does seem to be designed for midgets. I'm sure most 4 seaters will be fine. After all, most of them are American planes and the US is the lard capital of the world.
Being overweight is so hard to avoid these days. Lack of time, sedentary occupations, and the availability of convenience food see to that. Sure, you can use flying as an incentive to lose a bit of weight, but if you don't want to then **** what everybody else says. I've lost a bit of weight over the last few months and it's a right pain in the ass - you have to go shopping for new clothes...
Being overweight is so hard to avoid these days. Lack of time, sedentary occupations, and the availability of convenience food see to that. Sure, you can use flying as an incentive to lose a bit of weight, but if you don't want to then **** what everybody else says. I've lost a bit of weight over the last few months and it's a right pain in the ass - you have to go shopping for new clothes...
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Well said, Aussie Andy! 
I haven't reviewed the entire thread today, but as I recall there were only a few snide and unhelpful comments; the great majority of posts were well-meaning.
I don't think that we would be doing darul any favours by saying "flying is fun, just find a malleable AME and you're all set". Life is not so simple.
Apologies to Whirly if I have inadvertantly trivialized her point.
I haven't reviewed the entire thread today, but as I recall there were only a few snide and unhelpful comments; the great majority of posts were well-meaning.
I don't think that we would be doing darul any favours by saying "flying is fun, just find a malleable AME and you're all set". Life is not so simple.
Apologies to Whirly if I have inadvertantly trivialized her point.
Structural limits
I think we've done weight and balance to death, and by the sound of it most people would rather diet regimes wasn't revisited either.
But, I thought I'd get the rulebook and slide-rule out and see what the implications are of an MW6-S(*) in an aerobatic aeroplane.
Just to recap, the classic Cessna / Piper trainers are stressed to +3.8g and 77kg (170lb) per seat. But, when you play with weights and safety factors, you find that the seat will give way at about 2.75g - which is well within normal g-limits, and also significantly slightly under the 3g value normally used as the hard landing case for undercarriage strength. So, there's a very good case for a 25 stone pilot not being permitted to fly in one of these for reasons of seat structure.
Now we talked about the Bulldog, which would have been certified to BCAR Section K, which was the UK light aircraft safety requirements up until the early 1990s. That (for aerobatic aeroplanes) requires a minimum of a +6g limit which means that the structure will actually be good for +9g (+50% is the usual safety factor for metal aircraft structures).
Section K also uses 170lb for seats normally, but 190lb (86kg) for seats designed to be used with a parachute (which I think we can take as a given for any aerobatic trainer).
So, assuming the usual safety factors, and no particular over-engineering, the Bulldog seat should fail at 86kg x 9g = 774kg downwards load.
Now 25 stone comes out at 159kg. Divide 159 into 774 and we get 4.85g, that's the loading at which the seat is likely to collapse, and certainly far more g than any heavy landing (or at least one in which the maingear is likely to have survived intact).
However, putting my aeronautical engineer's hat on again I'd still rather see than 1.5 safety factor being applied. So, dividing 4.85g we get 3.23g. That's more than most of us have any desire to pull if we aren't flying aerobatics, and beyond the likely design case for the undercarriage.
The American rules aren't significantly different and I think that you can assume that the same sums would apply to, say, a C150 aerobat (although the narrow cabin may present an entirely different challenge).
So, as long as our large pilot can fit in, and there's no problem concerning overall weight and balance (which is easily checked in 5 minutes) I think that structurally speaking, there shouldn't be any particular problem with a Bulldog - or for that matter any other aeroplane certified for aerobatics, albeit using it for non-aerobatic training.
Apologies if anybody things that this post probably belongs in tech log, but the thread did start here and hopefully this is of some use to somebody.
G
(*) MW6-S is a type of PFA homebuilt aeroplane, I leave you lot to find it's other name.
But, I thought I'd get the rulebook and slide-rule out and see what the implications are of an MW6-S(*) in an aerobatic aeroplane.
Just to recap, the classic Cessna / Piper trainers are stressed to +3.8g and 77kg (170lb) per seat. But, when you play with weights and safety factors, you find that the seat will give way at about 2.75g - which is well within normal g-limits, and also significantly slightly under the 3g value normally used as the hard landing case for undercarriage strength. So, there's a very good case for a 25 stone pilot not being permitted to fly in one of these for reasons of seat structure.
Now we talked about the Bulldog, which would have been certified to BCAR Section K, which was the UK light aircraft safety requirements up until the early 1990s. That (for aerobatic aeroplanes) requires a minimum of a +6g limit which means that the structure will actually be good for +9g (+50% is the usual safety factor for metal aircraft structures).
Section K also uses 170lb for seats normally, but 190lb (86kg) for seats designed to be used with a parachute (which I think we can take as a given for any aerobatic trainer).
So, assuming the usual safety factors, and no particular over-engineering, the Bulldog seat should fail at 86kg x 9g = 774kg downwards load.
Now 25 stone comes out at 159kg. Divide 159 into 774 and we get 4.85g, that's the loading at which the seat is likely to collapse, and certainly far more g than any heavy landing (or at least one in which the maingear is likely to have survived intact).
However, putting my aeronautical engineer's hat on again I'd still rather see than 1.5 safety factor being applied. So, dividing 4.85g we get 3.23g. That's more than most of us have any desire to pull if we aren't flying aerobatics, and beyond the likely design case for the undercarriage.
The American rules aren't significantly different and I think that you can assume that the same sums would apply to, say, a C150 aerobat (although the narrow cabin may present an entirely different challenge).
So, as long as our large pilot can fit in, and there's no problem concerning overall weight and balance (which is easily checked in 5 minutes) I think that structurally speaking, there shouldn't be any particular problem with a Bulldog - or for that matter any other aeroplane certified for aerobatics, albeit using it for non-aerobatic training.
Apologies if anybody things that this post probably belongs in tech log, but the thread did start here and hopefully this is of some use to somebody.
G
(*) MW6-S is a type of PFA homebuilt aeroplane, I leave you lot to find it's other name.
The Original Whirly
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Good on ya Genghis! Something completely relevant to the question that was asked, ie what aircraft would be suitable. Sounds to me like your post belongs here.
Thread Starter
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Thanks Genghis the Engineer,
at last a real answer! I would also like to say thank you to everybody for thier concern regarding my weight, i really do appreciate the advice and support that you offer. I'm trying another diet at the moment and hopefully will start learning to fly soon.
I wish to add..........
Being overweight is a problem that I created myself and am not one of these people who blames the world for something thats my fault, i'm also the type of person who could'nt give a s**t what people say about me but..........
some of the reply's on this topic have been very cruel not everybody who is fat is able to ignore hurtful comments. There are many fat people out there who hate themselves so much that they won't even leave thier homes because of people like those on here that can only offer ridicule. I wonder if some of you would also make fun of the disabled etc, I just hope that you bring your children up better than yourselves and teach them that there are many different types of people in the world and that they should not be judged by apperence alone.
Darul.
at last a real answer! I would also like to say thank you to everybody for thier concern regarding my weight, i really do appreciate the advice and support that you offer. I'm trying another diet at the moment and hopefully will start learning to fly soon.
I wish to add..........
Being overweight is a problem that I created myself and am not one of these people who blames the world for something thats my fault, i'm also the type of person who could'nt give a s**t what people say about me but..........
some of the reply's on this topic have been very cruel not everybody who is fat is able to ignore hurtful comments. There are many fat people out there who hate themselves so much that they won't even leave thier homes because of people like those on here that can only offer ridicule. I wonder if some of you would also make fun of the disabled etc, I just hope that you bring your children up better than yourselves and teach them that there are many different types of people in the world and that they should not be judged by apperence alone.
Darul.
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Well done m8.
Why don't you set yourself a goal wieght loss. Then when you reach it. Reward is a trial flight or next lesson. The practical side of things have been said by G. But as most flying schools are driven by making money i am sure you will find someone out there willing to teach you.
For gawds sake don't turn this thread into another pink headset thread
but I for one will be more than willing to help with questions in your progress through the system.
MJ
Why don't you set yourself a goal wieght loss. Then when you reach it. Reward is a trial flight or next lesson. The practical side of things have been said by G. But as most flying schools are driven by making money i am sure you will find someone out there willing to teach you.
For gawds sake don't turn this thread into another pink headset thread
but I for one will be more than willing to help with questions in your progress through the system.MJ
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I don't think there is a BMI requirement as I am 25 stone and 6ft 5. I went for the medical but the doctors scales didn't get up to my weight, so he called the CAA. They said I would have to go for a "medical flight test", to make sure I can get into and out of the aircraft and not obstruct the controls. If I pass that I can fly.
Ray Keattch.
Ray Keattch.
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That's interesting, sounds something like the FAA SODA. Could be a useful precedent, but probably not. Did you find out who will perform this 'medical flight test', and would your certificate be limited to the specific aircraft type?
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Haven't read the whole thread but something occurs to me: if I fly alone I need to run the left tank down a bit. I have very accurate gauges so I run it about 3mm below the right one, and then there is no need for a constant aileron offset.
I weigh 75kg. If I weighed double that, I would need to run the left tank down a LOT more, and while one can compensate to a degree using the rudder trim, the plane would end up flying in a very funny way!
This is on a TB20, which has bigger tanks than most. I'd guess than on a C150 or similar one would need to fly with the left tank empty, to have a balanced aircraft. These don't have a rudder trim, either, so it must be tiring to be constantly hanging onto the RH side of the yoke.
I weigh 75kg. If I weighed double that, I would need to run the left tank down a LOT more, and while one can compensate to a degree using the rudder trim, the plane would end up flying in a very funny way!
This is on a TB20, which has bigger tanks than most. I'd guess than on a C150 or similar one would need to fly with the left tank empty, to have a balanced aircraft. These don't have a rudder trim, either, so it must be tiring to be constantly hanging onto the RH side of the yoke.
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Darul.....consider this ol buddy..
Oh Darul... Consider this:
Even to get your PPL you'll need determination and some degree of sacrifice... the signs aren't good are they?
Also, what if you fall blissfully in love with aviation and decide to move on to CPL/ATPL? ...There are a hundred good reasons why you wouldn't get a job..even if you got a Class 1 medical!
Either you're prepared to do anything to achieve your goals or you're not.... good luck anyway. bm
Even to get your PPL you'll need determination and some degree of sacrifice... the signs aren't good are they?
Also, what if you fall blissfully in love with aviation and decide to move on to CPL/ATPL? ...There are a hundred good reasons why you wouldn't get a job..even if you got a Class 1 medical!
Either you're prepared to do anything to achieve your goals or you're not.... good luck anyway. bm
