knee boards
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knee boards
im half way through my ppl nav exercises and am in need of some sort of a hard surface to put checklist, chart, flight log etc onto to help my disasterous cockpit management.i was thinking a standard clip board for a couple of euro would do but was wondering is there any advantage if i get a "proper" pilot knee board from somewhere like pilot warehouse. Any advice? Cheers.
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This is a bl00dy difficult question to answer. It all comes down to personal preference. But at this stage of your training, it's too early for you to have formed a personal preference yet.
Advantages of a "proper" kneeboard are that it will contain pockets in which you can put airfield diagrams and so on. It will have information printed on it which may or may not be useful, such as morse code. It will actually strap to your knee (well, some of them do anyway). It will probably have somewhere for you to keep pens and pencils.
Advantages of buying a clipboard are that it's cheap, and the so-called advantages of the proper kneeboard aren't really all that big anyway. You will probably need to either buy or make some way of attaching pens to your clipboard. Some people like to attach a stopwatch, too, but you'll need to make some way of attaching this even to a proper kneeboard.
I'd suggest going for the cheap clipboard, although I have to admit to not following my own advice - I use a proper kneeboard because I like the pockets which I can use for anything from airfield diagrams to approach plates to hand-written lists of useful navaids near my home airfield. I also find it useful having the morse code available if I find myself needing to use a nav-aid which I hadn't planned on using before the flight.
FFF
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Advantages of a "proper" kneeboard are that it will contain pockets in which you can put airfield diagrams and so on. It will have information printed on it which may or may not be useful, such as morse code. It will actually strap to your knee (well, some of them do anyway). It will probably have somewhere for you to keep pens and pencils.
Advantages of buying a clipboard are that it's cheap, and the so-called advantages of the proper kneeboard aren't really all that big anyway. You will probably need to either buy or make some way of attaching pens to your clipboard. Some people like to attach a stopwatch, too, but you'll need to make some way of attaching this even to a proper kneeboard.
I'd suggest going for the cheap clipboard, although I have to admit to not following my own advice - I use a proper kneeboard because I like the pockets which I can use for anything from airfield diagrams to approach plates to hand-written lists of useful navaids near my home airfield. I also find it useful having the morse code available if I find myself needing to use a nav-aid which I hadn't planned on using before the flight.
FFF
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I've got a couple of different "pilot" kneeboards (A4, which I haven't used since the PPL navexs, and a A5 one), but i've never looked at any of the info printed on them. Buy a cheap generic one and save yourself a tenner or so.
edit - i've just looked at the A5 one and the info is for the USA. Never noticed that before...
edit - i've just looked at the A5 one and the info is for the USA. Never noticed that before...
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dc1
I guess im at the same stage in my flying as you, i started off with a half size knee board which in the circuit and for general handling was plenty big enough to hold note paper for copying ATIS, times and clearances, as ive started moving onto Nav ex ive purchased a full size "dinner tray" style which allows me room for my old notes, check lists, map, flight log plotter etc etc etc
i think its down to personal preferences.
rt
I guess im at the same stage in my flying as you, i started off with a half size knee board which in the circuit and for general handling was plenty big enough to hold note paper for copying ATIS, times and clearances, as ive started moving onto Nav ex ive purchased a full size "dinner tray" style which allows me room for my old notes, check lists, map, flight log plotter etc etc etc
i think its down to personal preferences.
rt
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Another issue is 'What kind of aircraft are you learning in?'. The tri-fold kneeboard I bought for use when I was flying a Cessna 172 (also a 152) obstructed the control column (on full & free checks) when I started flying a PA28. It's still not good with the Fuji. I use a combination of the trifold (when in a Cessna) OR when in PA28, an A5 clipboard on my thigh (for noting clearances, times, etc), the aircraft pockets by the shins, my pax (usually for the chart!!), shirt pockets (pen, etc).
When you get through training and have your own aircraft (or one where a small group fly it), a yoke-mounted clipboard may be the solution (although not for me, as I'm left handed, and it requires releasing the controls to write, then holding controls with my right hand - just doesn't work for me at all!!
).
Buy a cheap solution that works for you now and then work on a long term solution when you've got your PPL and know better what you're likely to be flying in.
[Edited for clarity!]
When you get through training and have your own aircraft (or one where a small group fly it), a yoke-mounted clipboard may be the solution (although not for me, as I'm left handed, and it requires releasing the controls to write, then holding controls with my right hand - just doesn't work for me at all!!
).Buy a cheap solution that works for you now and then work on a long term solution when you've got your PPL and know better what you're likely to be flying in.
[Edited for clarity!]
Last edited by Circuit Basher; 17th Dec 2003 at 21:13.
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For a small aircraft you need to be able to write single handed, which means a small board strapped to your leg or on some other mount or a larger board laid across your knees (assuming the geometry of your cockpit allows it). Any other arrangement requires on hand to write with and the other to hold the thing you're writing on.
I use a basic A5 one from Transair. It has internal pockets which hold the Pooley's pages for the places I am flying to, the frequency chart which came with my chart and a plotter for quick Nav planning. It also carries an indelible marker for the chart, a pencil for my PLOG and a stopwatch.
Mike
I use a basic A5 one from Transair. It has internal pockets which hold the Pooley's pages for the places I am flying to, the frequency chart which came with my chart and a plotter for quick Nav planning. It also carries an indelible marker for the chart, a pencil for my PLOG and a stopwatch.
Mike
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I coudn't make up my mind, so I got all four:
1. An A5-ish (American) board that straps to my knee and is perfect for writing down stuff while airborne. It has a fiercely strong clip that will hold whatever you grip with it. I use it all the time;
2. An A4 (Transair) one with a plastic cover (keeps plogs dry while sprinting to the aircraft in the rain). It holds the detailed A4 plog and has pockets for various bits;
3. The American "IFR flight file", a roughly A5 size spiral-bound contraption with loads of placcy pockets for Departure, Destination, Alternate, and a few more sets of IFR (or VFR arrival) plates. Brilliant device, because you can open it right back and clip it to...
4. A yoke clip that will hold approach plates and display them clearly while both hands are occupied trying to land the beast. Also has a mount for the trusty stopwatch.
Wouldn't fly without all 4, unless only on a local jolly.
1. An A5-ish (American) board that straps to my knee and is perfect for writing down stuff while airborne. It has a fiercely strong clip that will hold whatever you grip with it. I use it all the time;
2. An A4 (Transair) one with a plastic cover (keeps plogs dry while sprinting to the aircraft in the rain). It holds the detailed A4 plog and has pockets for various bits;
3. The American "IFR flight file", a roughly A5 size spiral-bound contraption with loads of placcy pockets for Departure, Destination, Alternate, and a few more sets of IFR (or VFR arrival) plates. Brilliant device, because you can open it right back and clip it to...
4. A yoke clip that will hold approach plates and display them clearly while both hands are occupied trying to land the beast. Also has a mount for the trusty stopwatch.
Wouldn't fly without all 4, unless only on a local jolly.
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dc1
I, like Circuit basher, couldn't get on with the tri fold type. After asking other students and instructors I ended up with the A4 type which I still use.
As for cockpit management, I found a small plastic karabina which went throught the ring binder part of my checklist and on the spring clip of the kneeboard. When not in use it dangles nicely between my legs (Oooh errr Matron) out of the way until needed.
I, like Circuit basher, couldn't get on with the tri fold type. After asking other students and instructors I ended up with the A4 type which I still use.
As for cockpit management, I found a small plastic karabina which went throught the ring binder part of my checklist and on the spring clip of the kneeboard. When not in use it dangles nicely between my legs (Oooh errr Matron) out of the way until needed.
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dc1,
All that stuff printed on the knee board that the brochures tell you about is rubbish. You'll never use it. If you need to use it, then you probably haven't studied properly.
Having said that, I'm surprised to see so many people here saying that you should buy
A) an ordinary
b) A4 clip board.
I would recommond an A5 pilots knee board.
Firstly because I find my A5 actually takes up too much space as it is! Perhaps that's because I'm not very tall, and with the seat as far forward as it goes, I don't have a lot of space. However I think that an A4 is probably too big for most cockpits that you are likely to be flying unless you progress onto much bigger machines.
Second reason is exactly as Mike Cross pointed out. Writing on a standard clip board is a two handed job. One to hold the board, and one to write. Fine for taking down taxi instructions etc. when you are on the ground, but not great for takeing en-route times and clearances when you are in the air. Neither an instructor nor an examiner will be impressed with you letting go of the controls to start to write! A pilots knee board generally has some way of attaching to your leg. Mine attaches with velcro straps. Therefore I only need one had to write with, while the other remains on the controls.
I could see that you could use an ordinary clip board if you didn't have anyone in the other seat...you could leave the board there, and lean on the seat, but most of your training will be done with both seats filled.
Go for the proper A5 pilots knee board, that attaches to your knee.
dp
All that stuff printed on the knee board that the brochures tell you about is rubbish. You'll never use it. If you need to use it, then you probably haven't studied properly.
Having said that, I'm surprised to see so many people here saying that you should buy
A) an ordinary
b) A4 clip board.
I would recommond an A5 pilots knee board.
Firstly because I find my A5 actually takes up too much space as it is! Perhaps that's because I'm not very tall, and with the seat as far forward as it goes, I don't have a lot of space. However I think that an A4 is probably too big for most cockpits that you are likely to be flying unless you progress onto much bigger machines.
Second reason is exactly as Mike Cross pointed out. Writing on a standard clip board is a two handed job. One to hold the board, and one to write. Fine for taking down taxi instructions etc. when you are on the ground, but not great for takeing en-route times and clearances when you are in the air. Neither an instructor nor an examiner will be impressed with you letting go of the controls to start to write! A pilots knee board generally has some way of attaching to your leg. Mine attaches with velcro straps. Therefore I only need one had to write with, while the other remains on the controls.
I could see that you could use an ordinary clip board if you didn't have anyone in the other seat...you could leave the board there, and lean on the seat, but most of your training will be done with both seats filled.
Go for the proper A5 pilots knee board, that attaches to your knee.
dp
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I use the A5 Pilots Kneeboard. It remains strapped to my right upper leg during flight via a wide elastic band which velcros' in the middle. It has a clear plastic sheet on the front which you can slide things under and a clip at the top for attaching things like PLOG's. I have a chinograph propelling pencil affair on an elastic thread attached to it. This allows me to jot stuff down in flight. The board can unfold into two halves, the fold being on the left side. In this space is a plastic pocket on each inner face, in here I keep a frequency card, airfield Pooleys entries and a Nav Plotter. I find that this works pretty well. The issue freq. card has a map scale down each side so coupled with the plotter it makes any in flight diversion planning simple.
As a previous poster mentioned make sure that before flight you attach the kneeboard in the position you want to use it and then do a full and free check. For me (in a 152) I cannot apply full left rudder and full right aileron at the same time as the kneeboard restricts this. Therefore I do not wear it for take off and landing, only in flight. My departure checks include putting it on and recovery checks include taking it off again. If in regular flight I need to apply the above mentioned controls I think the velcro bit should snap under the pressure.
As for the stopwatch and other jazz on the kneeboard I don't bother, I use my wristwatch for timing. One other thing to be aware of, don't let yourself stare at your kneeboard for too long, keep heads up! Something I was guilty of at one point.
Hope you find something that works.
ASI
As a previous poster mentioned make sure that before flight you attach the kneeboard in the position you want to use it and then do a full and free check. For me (in a 152) I cannot apply full left rudder and full right aileron at the same time as the kneeboard restricts this. Therefore I do not wear it for take off and landing, only in flight. My departure checks include putting it on and recovery checks include taking it off again. If in regular flight I need to apply the above mentioned controls I think the velcro bit should snap under the pressure.
As for the stopwatch and other jazz on the kneeboard I don't bother, I use my wristwatch for timing. One other thing to be aware of, don't let yourself stare at your kneeboard for too long, keep heads up! Something I was guilty of at one point.
Hope you find something that works.
ASI
What worked for me:
PPL & CPL: A foolscap (no A4 then) folder (the sort with the spring clip at the top, not a rings-along-the-spine thing). Turn it inside out so that the clip is on the outside. The clip becomes your 'working' side. Inside the folder attach a few of those clear plastic envelopes using a couple of bulldog clips. Arrange the opening end of the plastic envelopes so that they point away from the fuselage sidewall when the folder is in use.
You can use clear contact on the surface of the folder with a pre-drawn/ruled page underneath it. Handy for taking notes, checklists & reminders etc
IR: A4 was now common so substituted an A4 folder & plastic envelopes.
After a about 1500-2000 hours I saw one of those ASA 'tri-fold' kneeboards so bought that. Used if for a while.
Now I use just the A5-ish size aluminium clipboard that was inside the tri-fold. I park the board between the side of the coaming & the windscreen when not in use. Everything else I need is in my pocket (a Jepp CR-5 whizwheel), on my wrist (my watch of course. A stopwatch is unnecessary overkill & a waste of money) or in my cheap canvas satchel from an army disposal shop (if I bother bringing it). Those big pilot cases are also a waste of $$$. Where do you put it in a light a/c AND keep all seats available for passengers?
Also on the all of the boards I've mentioned I put one of those spiral spring pen holders. The ones with a slide clip for attaching them to pockets & the like.
All the above is cheap & easy to get from any office supplies/stationers or you can find an A5 sheet of thick-ish aluminium aeasily & add your own clip/dogclip). It's easy to replace or alter. No big deal if you want to change something.
At this stage of your experience you can expect to try many things while you develop your system of organisation. May as well try the cheapest things first, know that you're going to alter/adjust/change/add/remove your memos/writing & storage spaces/checklists etc etc.
PPL & CPL: A foolscap (no A4 then) folder (the sort with the spring clip at the top, not a rings-along-the-spine thing). Turn it inside out so that the clip is on the outside. The clip becomes your 'working' side. Inside the folder attach a few of those clear plastic envelopes using a couple of bulldog clips. Arrange the opening end of the plastic envelopes so that they point away from the fuselage sidewall when the folder is in use.
You can use clear contact on the surface of the folder with a pre-drawn/ruled page underneath it. Handy for taking notes, checklists & reminders etc
IR: A4 was now common so substituted an A4 folder & plastic envelopes.
After a about 1500-2000 hours I saw one of those ASA 'tri-fold' kneeboards so bought that. Used if for a while.
Now I use just the A5-ish size aluminium clipboard that was inside the tri-fold. I park the board between the side of the coaming & the windscreen when not in use. Everything else I need is in my pocket (a Jepp CR-5 whizwheel), on my wrist (my watch of course. A stopwatch is unnecessary overkill & a waste of money) or in my cheap canvas satchel from an army disposal shop (if I bother bringing it). Those big pilot cases are also a waste of $$$. Where do you put it in a light a/c AND keep all seats available for passengers?
Also on the all of the boards I've mentioned I put one of those spiral spring pen holders. The ones with a slide clip for attaching them to pockets & the like.
All the above is cheap & easy to get from any office supplies/stationers or you can find an A5 sheet of thick-ish aluminium aeasily & add your own clip/dogclip). It's easy to replace or alter. No big deal if you want to change something.
At this stage of your experience you can expect to try many things while you develop your system of organisation. May as well try the cheapest things first, know that you're going to alter/adjust/change/add/remove your memos/writing & storage spaces/checklists etc etc.
I've half a dozen, and routinely switch between them depending upon what type I'm flying and why. I confess that for A-B flying in a conventional Piper/Cessna style light aircraft that I do prefer the trifold variety - my current model being a Pooleys helicopter kneeboard (and no, I don't fly helicopters). It holds...
- Checklist
- Ruler
- Protractor
- Type data card.
- Route plan
- Approach plates.
- Blank card for scribbling notes on.
- Small GPS (or sunglasses case, but not both).
- Multiple pens and pencils, and when required a small night flying torch.
- And, under duress, my chart, although usually that relocates under my leg or between windscreen and cowling pretty quickly.
A colleague did describe it as being less a kneeboard and more a mobile filing system, and that's probably fair comment - but I still am very fond of it.
Yesterday I'd have agreed that the various information printed on them is useless. Except that this evening (in night and on the edge of controlled airspace) I had a radio failure towards the end of a 3 hour flight, and without it I'm bloody sure I'd not have remembered the right squawk code (7600) without it. So, at the least, it's better than leaving it blank!
BUT, there's nothing to stop you buying a cheap clipboard, of whatever size suits you, and other possible oddments, from Office World (a much underrated pilot supplies shop in my opinion), attaching it to your knee with elastic, and making up something to suit yourself. Many very experienced pilots have done just that.
G
- Checklist
- Ruler
- Protractor
- Type data card.
- Route plan
- Approach plates.
- Blank card for scribbling notes on.
- Small GPS (or sunglasses case, but not both).
- Multiple pens and pencils, and when required a small night flying torch.
- And, under duress, my chart, although usually that relocates under my leg or between windscreen and cowling pretty quickly.
A colleague did describe it as being less a kneeboard and more a mobile filing system, and that's probably fair comment - but I still am very fond of it.
Yesterday I'd have agreed that the various information printed on them is useless. Except that this evening (in night and on the edge of controlled airspace) I had a radio failure towards the end of a 3 hour flight, and without it I'm bloody sure I'd not have remembered the right squawk code (7600) without it. So, at the least, it's better than leaving it blank!
BUT, there's nothing to stop you buying a cheap clipboard, of whatever size suits you, and other possible oddments, from Office World (a much underrated pilot supplies shop in my opinion), attaching it to your knee with elastic, and making up something to suit yourself. Many very experienced pilots have done just that.
G
I'm surprised that none of the piot shop kneeboards seem to have been designed by pilots for pilots - they're all heavy things with lots of folding bits, the whole thing made of leatherette but with a totally inadequate securing strap....
I'd like a simple A5-ish sized aluminium plate secured with a strap with a fastener, not just knicker elastic and velcro. All I'd want on the plate is a means of holding an A5 spiral top writing pad and a single pencil holder.
I'd like a simple A5-ish sized aluminium plate secured with a strap with a fastener, not just knicker elastic and velcro. All I'd want on the plate is a means of holding an A5 spiral top writing pad and a single pencil holder.
I bought a tri-fold with an elastic & velcro strap.
I use it to clip my plogs to and hold the chinagraph pencils I use to note start/waypoint/end times on my chart.
Sum up: waste of money. Get a pocket clip for the pencils and clip it into the side wall pocket. Use a bulldog clip or similar to stop your plogs floating around the cockpit.
PS I'm a look-out-the-window there's the power station turn left kind of pilot
(with the occasional glance at the Pilot III GPS) 
I use it to clip my plogs to and hold the chinagraph pencils I use to note start/waypoint/end times on my chart.
Sum up: waste of money. Get a pocket clip for the pencils and clip it into the side wall pocket. Use a bulldog clip or similar to stop your plogs floating around the cockpit.
PS I'm a look-out-the-window there's the power station turn left kind of pilot
(with the occasional glance at the Pilot III GPS)
its£5perworddammit
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My setup:
-A small notepad/clipboard strapped to my leg
-Checklist and crayon on a rope around my neck (originally a pencil, until I almost murdered myself)
-Yoke clip for charts/plates
-A small notepad/clipboard strapped to my leg
-Checklist and crayon on a rope around my neck (originally a pencil, until I almost murdered myself)
-Yoke clip for charts/plates
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Struggled with this one for a while until I picked up a £12 microlight kneeboard from Pooleys. Very light, single pen holder, narrow and contours so it fits my fat thighs.
Have had to design PLOG sheets especially for it but have always done this anyway.
I then keep my expensive leatherette Transair organiser board handy with all the plates, etc.
Agree with St Ivian about taking it off during landing - any type just gets in the way.
(why is it that I always have to buy the expensive bits of kit before settling on the simple, cheap stuff
)
Have had to design PLOG sheets especially for it but have always done this anyway.
I then keep my expensive leatherette Transair organiser board handy with all the plates, etc.
Agree with St Ivian about taking it off during landing - any type just gets in the way.
(why is it that I always have to buy the expensive bits of kit before settling on the simple, cheap stuff
)
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Kneeboards
The Royal Air Force issue knee board is quite a nice piece of kit if you can get hold on one. A chinagraph note surface on the front (looks like an aircrew flying suit knee pocket) with an upwards folding flap with an A5 ringbinder clip underneath. Seems just the right balance between size and functionality to me!
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Kneeboard Hater!
I hate flying with kneeboards! The most annoying invention they just get in the way (but they ar useful!)
I have an A5 Pooleys one which is excellent for storing bits and pieces in to take flying.
I only take it when im going navving and i only wear it if theres a lot of info to take note of or if its a complicated route PLOG wise. If it's not such a challenging route i just shove it down the side of my seat with my map and look at it when i need to.
Like ASI I always remove mine when im in circuit for TO and landings. However i will rcommend the one i have purely cos its got some good points:
POOLEYS CB8
Got a flight planner to write on in chinagraph
A5 sized clear plastic sheets to stick things in (I have a UK freq. chart and crosswind stuff in them)
Flight levels reminder
Morse code
And some RT bits
Clip for PLOG/Checklist/landing fees and holder for pens
(or i just use my PAX as my holder!!
)
I have an A5 Pooleys one which is excellent for storing bits and pieces in to take flying.
I only take it when im going navving and i only wear it if theres a lot of info to take note of or if its a complicated route PLOG wise. If it's not such a challenging route i just shove it down the side of my seat with my map and look at it when i need to.
Like ASI I always remove mine when im in circuit for TO and landings. However i will rcommend the one i have purely cos its got some good points:
POOLEYS CB8
Got a flight planner to write on in chinagraph
A5 sized clear plastic sheets to stick things in (I have a UK freq. chart and crosswind stuff in them)
Flight levels reminder
Morse code
And some RT bits
Clip for PLOG/Checklist/landing fees and holder for pens
(or i just use my PAX as my holder!!
)