Red Arrows display cancelled due to airspace infringement (merged)
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I rather suspect that it might be. When I was doing my PPL(A), I never heard of NOTAMS until I was well into doing cross countries.
). Still, I doubt that there are many people that can get a PPL without ever discovering NOTAMs - IIRC there are questions on them in three of the PPL exams (Air Law, Flight Perf & Planning and Nav). They are no more obscure than Rule 5 or Class-A airspace, but the difference is that you can usually get away with ignoring the NOTAMs ... so I guess people do.
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Amazing how quickly rumours get started. Unbelieveable how, almost less than 24 hours after the incident, that a summary £2000 fine is announced? The paperwork would not have even got to the desk of the CAA yet, let alone decide whether or not to investigate, let alone go to court and, if found guilty, announce the fine. I reckon on a fairly hefty fine but surely in about 6 months time maybe at the earliest? Unless the CAA have now got a 'fast-track' fines system, just like their fast track license issue system, not.
I'm not sure on what grounds the organisers are going to sue the pilot? Loss of earnings? Does this mean I can sue an Air Display organiser if I don't like the display?
Its a wacky world we live in
I'm not sure on what grounds the organisers are going to sue the pilot? Loss of earnings? Does this mean I can sue an Air Display organiser if I don't like the display?
Its a wacky world we live in
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To be fair to the RAF they did investigate when I reported a formation of three Hercules for flying through the circuit of an unlicenced but active aerodrome at 600 ft while I was in the circuit.
They eventually let me know some months later that the Hercs had me in sight. Good I thought.
On the subject of the air display infringement, it seems to highlight the advisability of talking to appropriate ATC services, who might have advised the pilots concerned before they infringed.
I am surprised at how many posters diligently read the notams and are confident they have taken into account all those affecting them. I am never so confident.
They eventually let me know some months later that the Hercs had me in sight. Good I thought.
On the subject of the air display infringement, it seems to highlight the advisability of talking to appropriate ATC services, who might have advised the pilots concerned before they infringed.
I am surprised at how many posters diligently read the notams and are confident they have taken into account all those affecting them. I am never so confident.
aceatco, retired
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Word on the street is that the microlight pilot is to be fined £2000 by the CAA and be grounded for a while . . . . .
I don't know why the surprise, we regularly get the airspace around Old Warden busted during displays. No TRA admittedly but it is always notfied in the Daily Nav Warning summary and I wrote an AIC at the start of the season giving all the dates and asking people to stay clear. Can't be difficult to spot, a few thousand cars and lots of aeroplanes on the ground!!
VA
Last edited by vintage ATCO; 26th Aug 2003 at 03:29.
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"the RAF are always keen to have infringements investigated in ‘a most thorough way’."
Are they just as keen when it is they that infinge or step outside the legal limits? It was very very stupid of the pilots to go anywhere near a TRA and cannot be condoned at all.
"Red 1 spotted all of them as he led the formation past and called a halt to the display, which he seemed to agree with as the safest option open to the Arrows (I agree!). "
As for Red 1 seeing the a/c in the TRA why was he not informed earlier by the appropriate radar unit? Surely the Reds were in receipt of some kind of service from the nearest military radar or were they assuming that the TRA would protect them from idiots (oh and birds)?
Are they just as keen when it is they that infinge or step outside the legal limits? It was very very stupid of the pilots to go anywhere near a TRA and cannot be condoned at all.
"Red 1 spotted all of them as he led the formation past and called a halt to the display, which he seemed to agree with as the safest option open to the Arrows (I agree!). "
As for Red 1 seeing the a/c in the TRA why was he not informed earlier by the appropriate radar unit? Surely the Reds were in receipt of some kind of service from the nearest military radar or were they assuming that the TRA would protect them from idiots (oh and birds)?
aceatco, retired
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I wouldn't assume the Reds get a radar service for every display they do (I have no idea in this particular case). A TRA is, after all, suppose to be a TRA.
VA
VA
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I thought about leaving out the rumour i'd heard but had to put it in to see what response it got! If the organisers did sue I don't have a clue on what grounds? I don't think they would have lost any money, all displays are normally subject to change (isn't everything these days
) so i doubt they would have given anyone their money back. Like it or not were going the same way as the Americans when it comes to suing.
I can't be certain but I'm sure I heard on the radio before the Monday display that the Reds were in touch with Humberside Radar checking for any possible conflicting traffic, don't know whether they did that on the Sunday though.
I would have thought they would have been in touch with Church Fenton (if they were open). They usually supply LARS in the York area so should have been aware of most things in the air even if it only gave a small echo. The hold for the display was also to the west of Elvington which must have pretty much put them on top of it! We will probably never know.
Incidentally I have to admit during my PPL training NOTAMS were never really emphasised as much as I now know they should.
) so i doubt they would have given anyone their money back. Like it or not were going the same way as the Americans when it comes to suing.I can't be certain but I'm sure I heard on the radio before the Monday display that the Reds were in touch with Humberside Radar checking for any possible conflicting traffic, don't know whether they did that on the Sunday though.
I would have thought they would have been in touch with Church Fenton (if they were open). They usually supply LARS in the York area so should have been aware of most things in the air even if it only gave a small echo. The hold for the display was also to the west of Elvington which must have pretty much put them on top of it! We will probably never know.
Incidentally I have to admit during my PPL training NOTAMS were never really emphasised as much as I now know they should.
Some diametrically opposed views on this site. However, the current NOTAM system really is rubbish, it has to be said. Pages and pages about rocket firing in some obscure corner of the Outer Hebrides, kite flying for birds of prey training etc etc. The previous system was vastly better - if a pilot misses a particular NOTAM because it's buried amongst the garbage, then I wouldn't be totally surprised.
Plus why does one have to register to access the AIS website in order to check the AICs for TRAs? If it's safety information, it should be freely available.
Sorry that the show was ruined for you; perhaps this might persuade the CAA to make availability and dissemination of NOTAMs more straightforward than it currently is?
I've just tried to access the AIS website; after 5 minutes the TRA list still hadn't loaded. Eventually it did - the locations are listed, but not the times. For that you are directed to the general website - which doesn't have a hotlink to the TRA times. So I told it I was due to fly from Wombleton to Barton tomorrow (in that stupid back-to-front format) and asked for general VFR information. The result? Pages and pages of crap about London City airport, Culdrose etc etc. So yes, if a pilot said that he couldn't easily find out about the Red Arrows TRA times these days thanks to the crazy NOTAM format, then I wouldn't be at all surprised!
GET THIS NONSENSE SORTED OUT!!
Plus why does one have to register to access the AIS website in order to check the AICs for TRAs? If it's safety information, it should be freely available.
Sorry that the show was ruined for you; perhaps this might persuade the CAA to make availability and dissemination of NOTAMs more straightforward than it currently is?
I've just tried to access the AIS website; after 5 minutes the TRA list still hadn't loaded. Eventually it did - the locations are listed, but not the times. For that you are directed to the general website - which doesn't have a hotlink to the TRA times. So I told it I was due to fly from Wombleton to Barton tomorrow (in that stupid back-to-front format) and asked for general VFR information. The result? Pages and pages of crap about London City airport, Culdrose etc etc. So yes, if a pilot said that he couldn't easily find out about the Red Arrows TRA times these days thanks to the crazy NOTAM format, then I wouldn't be at all surprised!
GET THIS NONSENSE SORTED OUT!!
Last edited by BEagle; 26th Aug 2003 at 07:17.
As for Red 1 seeing the a/c in the TRA why was he not informed earlier by the appropriate radar unit? Surely the Reds were in receipt of some kind of service from the nearest military radar or were they assuming that the TRA would protect them from idiots (oh and birds)?
About a year ago I saw a microlight make a precautionary to a prohibited disused airfield under Solent CTA from within Bournemouth. I reported it to the Solent controller who had clearly had no sight of the aircraft in question on his Radar at-all.
G
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I think a lot of us have been short-changed in our training. I was told about the notams when I did my PPL but never taught how to understand them. I was, however, taught about the freephone "Royal Flights" number and expected to use it before any cross-country flight. At that time, the freephone number seemed to be prominently displayed at every airfield and in every briefing room both in posters and in the diamond shaped sticker. I'm not certain, but I don't think it has so much prominence now. Could this be a factor?
I didn't learn how to understand the NOTAMS until I was training for my Instrument Rating (5 years after getting a licence) and it was a revelation to me when I was shown that all the information was in lattitude order and therefore easy to quickly find the relevent bits. In the meantime I had done IMC and Night ratings, but it is a sad reflection on the training organisations that I was never shown how to interpret notams properly and was still just "muddling through". For the IR, however, it was essential to be able to use notams quickly because for the CAA IR flight test the examiner only gives you 45 mins to plan his route (including answering questions on danger areas active etc), book the approaches, file the flight plan, and do the weight and balance and fuel logs. I wouldn't like to have to meet this deadline with the present system, but presumably some people have to.
I preferred the old notams in lattitude order because I could rapidly locate relevent information. With the new system it seems (to me) to be too mixed up, and takes (me) much longer.
We need to look for solutions, and I think one of those is for flight training organisations to ensure their instructors understand, and then teach, how to best access and interpret the notams (and other pre-flight information).
I didn't learn how to understand the NOTAMS until I was training for my Instrument Rating (5 years after getting a licence) and it was a revelation to me when I was shown that all the information was in lattitude order and therefore easy to quickly find the relevent bits. In the meantime I had done IMC and Night ratings, but it is a sad reflection on the training organisations that I was never shown how to interpret notams properly and was still just "muddling through". For the IR, however, it was essential to be able to use notams quickly because for the CAA IR flight test the examiner only gives you 45 mins to plan his route (including answering questions on danger areas active etc), book the approaches, file the flight plan, and do the weight and balance and fuel logs. I wouldn't like to have to meet this deadline with the present system, but presumably some people have to.
I preferred the old notams in lattitude order because I could rapidly locate relevent information. With the new system it seems (to me) to be too mixed up, and takes (me) much longer.
We need to look for solutions, and I think one of those is for flight training organisations to ensure their instructors understand, and then teach, how to best access and interpret the notams (and other pre-flight information).
The Original Whirly
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Maybe I've missed this, both when training and on this thread, but....
If you were a pilot who didn't own a PC, operating from a farm strip or small club with no facilities (like a lot of microlight clubs), how would you get hold of NOTAMS? Is there another way?
If you were a pilot who didn't own a PC, operating from a farm strip or small club with no facilities (like a lot of microlight clubs), how would you get hold of NOTAMS? Is there another way?
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Seems to be a great deal of polarisation going on here. The AIS system has been greatly improved thanks to the efforts of some dedicated people who regularly contribute on PPRuNe plus some of the enlightened from some of the other agencies involved.
The present NOTAM system has, I believe, been taken about as far as it can within the constraints of the software package selected. It is still not as good a way of disseminating complex information as the old NotamPlot / NotamPro graphical displays. Even knowing the route I am about to fly, I frequently haven't even looked at the lat / long coordinates of every point along the route and then manually cross-checked to the PIB. I try to just focus on which look closest to me and then read the text to see whether it's in the same vertical box as I plan to be in.
The only time I check NOTAMs these days is where I plan to fly outside the local flying area or on a route which is close to known danger areas / remote from an ATSU. As for reading AICs - I did make a deliberate attempt yesterday to read some of the newer ones for the first time in over a year. As I don't fly as part of a 'school' environment, all the flight preparation is down to me (no quick check of weather / NOTAM clipboards) and is done in the 24 hrs leading up to a flight. I can also say that I have *never* even considered ringing the Royal Flights number (during training, I used to fly from Bournemouth and I just checked the Royal Flights clipboard). I have not come up with a routine for doing that these days.
I can put on the rose coloured
shades and hypothesize that this will prompt the sudden dissemination of NOTAMs in a format compatible with NOTAM Pro, together with free Met telephone briefings, free access to briefing terminals at all GA airfields, reduced landing fees, no IFR enroute charges, etc.... 
[have just been searching for a flying pink pig smiley like Danny's, but haven't found it!]... anyway, I've had some caffeine and woken up now!
Doubtless, the current NOTAM situation has not reduced the likelihood of this sort of thing occurring. I recognise that there are some who will continue to be in the "They're in the wrong and should be punished" camp and that is technically right. What I am saying is that there are contributory factors behind this occurrence that have increased the likelihood of it happening and the system should be reviewed to see how this risk can be mitigated. The human mind will always instinctively look for the easy route for doing anything - if the system makes it unecessarily complicated, then short cuts *will* be taken, resulting in occurrences like this.
I know I'm going to face
for this post, but at least it's honest!!
The present NOTAM system has, I believe, been taken about as far as it can within the constraints of the software package selected. It is still not as good a way of disseminating complex information as the old NotamPlot / NotamPro graphical displays. Even knowing the route I am about to fly, I frequently haven't even looked at the lat / long coordinates of every point along the route and then manually cross-checked to the PIB. I try to just focus on which look closest to me and then read the text to see whether it's in the same vertical box as I plan to be in.
The only time I check NOTAMs these days is where I plan to fly outside the local flying area or on a route which is close to known danger areas / remote from an ATSU. As for reading AICs - I did make a deliberate attempt yesterday to read some of the newer ones for the first time in over a year. As I don't fly as part of a 'school' environment, all the flight preparation is down to me (no quick check of weather / NOTAM clipboards) and is done in the 24 hrs leading up to a flight. I can also say that I have *never* even considered ringing the Royal Flights number (during training, I used to fly from Bournemouth and I just checked the Royal Flights clipboard). I have not come up with a routine for doing that these days.
I can put on the rose coloured
shades and hypothesize that this will prompt the sudden dissemination of NOTAMs in a format compatible with NOTAM Pro, together with free Met telephone briefings, free access to briefing terminals at all GA airfields, reduced landing fees, no IFR enroute charges, etc.... [have just been searching for a flying pink pig smiley like Danny's, but haven't found it!]... anyway, I've had some caffeine and woken up now!Doubtless, the current NOTAM situation has not reduced the likelihood of this sort of thing occurring. I recognise that there are some who will continue to be in the "They're in the wrong and should be punished" camp and that is technically right. What I am saying is that there are contributory factors behind this occurrence that have increased the likelihood of it happening and the system should be reviewed to see how this risk can be mitigated. The human mind will always instinctively look for the easy route for doing anything - if the system makes it unecessarily complicated, then short cuts *will* be taken, resulting in occurrences like this.
I know I'm going to face
for this post, but at least it's honest!!
Beagle, I am with you 100 % on this one!
I know that several Ppruners have been working with CAA etc to improve the system but I still think the whole thing is an abortion compared to the old system. Why on earth they had to change it I really do not know.
Whilst transgressing any TRA is serious I can understand any GA pilot giving up trying to get sensible NOTAM info. One day the authorities will have blood on their hands because of this change.
I know that several Ppruners have been working with CAA etc to improve the system but I still think the whole thing is an abortion compared to the old system. Why on earth they had to change it I really do not know.
Whilst transgressing any TRA is serious I can understand any GA pilot giving up trying to get sensible NOTAM info. One day the authorities will have blood on their hands because of this change.
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Whilst the NOTAM system can no doubt be improved, I think part of the problem lies in pilots leaving too little time in their pre-flight prep to have a thorough read of all the relevant info. Ironic really when you consider the number of postings from PPls relating to wind/fuel/whatever calculations to the nth degree.
We have one poster who was seemingly reading his NOTAMs in the a/c whilst flying (kind of defeats the point really), and plenty more who see it as lists of endless cr@p, rather than potentially important info.
I will do a couple of different search combinations before my flights to ensure that I haven't missed that one important NOTAM which might allow me to keep my licence, even if it means reading several pages of stuff that isn't relevant to my exact route, or which hasn't changed in weeks. I'm not perfect, and I don't want to come across as 'holier than thou', but I'm also not prepared to allow anyone to take the licence I worked hard for away due to a simple omission on my part.
On the subject of FIs and NOTAMs, I trained for a CPL at a well-respected school, and it would seem that checking NOTAMs, as well as all other elements of flight planning, were left to the students. No bad thing, but we did often receive info from ATC while under RIS about para-dropping activity which hadn't been NOTAMed (we always double-checked on return to make sure we hadn't cocked up) and the FI always asked us if it was on NOTAMs as he clearly hadn't checked for himself.
We have one poster who was seemingly reading his NOTAMs in the a/c whilst flying (kind of defeats the point really), and plenty more who see it as lists of endless cr@p, rather than potentially important info.
I will do a couple of different search combinations before my flights to ensure that I haven't missed that one important NOTAM which might allow me to keep my licence, even if it means reading several pages of stuff that isn't relevant to my exact route, or which hasn't changed in weeks. I'm not perfect, and I don't want to come across as 'holier than thou', but I'm also not prepared to allow anyone to take the licence I worked hard for away due to a simple omission on my part.
On the subject of FIs and NOTAMs, I trained for a CPL at a well-respected school, and it would seem that checking NOTAMs, as well as all other elements of flight planning, were left to the students. No bad thing, but we did often receive info from ATC while under RIS about para-dropping activity which hadn't been NOTAMed (we always double-checked on return to make sure we hadn't cocked up) and the FI always asked us if it was on NOTAMs as he clearly hadn't checked for himself.
Thread Starter
I agree that relevant NOTAM information is far from easy to spot but it certainly helps if you're aware of the major hazards that you are likely to encounter.
It's August and we're well into airshow season. Pilots should be aware of this and look hard for the obvious hazards. This information is not exclusive to NOTAM's/PIB's. Lists of upcoming airshows appear in flying magazines, local/national press, flying clubs etc...Isn't this part of our process before every flight?? For example, the weather is CAVOK, therefore it's likely that more air traffic will be about. The wind is westerly so traffic patterns can be anticipated on passing airfields; and that's the direction I'm working on if the engine goes quiet; there's an airshow down the road so it might be wise to avoid the area...It's all part of flight planing, isn't it?
It's amazing how relevant information leaps out at you (from any source) when you know what you're looking for.
It's August and we're well into airshow season. Pilots should be aware of this and look hard for the obvious hazards. This information is not exclusive to NOTAM's/PIB's. Lists of upcoming airshows appear in flying magazines, local/national press, flying clubs etc...Isn't this part of our process before every flight?? For example, the weather is CAVOK, therefore it's likely that more air traffic will be about. The wind is westerly so traffic patterns can be anticipated on passing airfields; and that's the direction I'm working on if the engine goes quiet; there's an airshow down the road so it might be wise to avoid the area...It's all part of flight planing, isn't it?
It's amazing how relevant information leaps out at you (from any source) when you know what you're looking for.
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I'm not sure on what grounds the organisers are going to sue the pilot? Loss of earnings? Does this mean I can sue an Air Display organiser if I don't like the display?
I would have thought they would have been in touch with Church Fenton (if they were open). They usually supply LARS in the York area so should have been aware of most things in the air even if it only gave a small echo. The hold for the display was also to the west of Elvington which must have pretty much put them on top of it! We will probably never know.
Wily
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The notam system has improved to the stage that it is now more or less useable.
It is still not very userfriendly and certainly does not meet any reasonable standard of being pilot proof. QED.
It's a bit like using an ADF. It works but is not really of these times. What we need is the GPS equivalent (with map)
FD
PS: I think they want you to register to keep an eye on use. And in cases like this if you claim you did look it will be a lot easier to defend yourself if you actually looked and logged on.
It is still not very userfriendly and certainly does not meet any reasonable standard of being pilot proof. QED.
It's a bit like using an ADF. It works but is not really of these times. What we need is the GPS equivalent (with map)
FD
PS: I think they want you to register to keep an eye on use. And in cases like this if you claim you did look it will be a lot easier to defend yourself if you actually looked and logged on.
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Circuit Basher
It's good to see someone recognising that despite the fact that blame can be ascribed fairly and squarely to the offender there are nonetheless still things that can be done by others to reduce the likelyhood of infringements.
For those who are having problems with the AIS site here are a number of pointers.
Guidance on which type of briefing to use can be found here. You will also find details on alternative methods of getting briefs. Not having Internet access is no excuse for not briefing. You can get them by fax or telephone.
For those who hanker after a geographic sort it is still available, look at the VFR FIR briefs.
Background reading here
Print the FAQ's and PIB Help off the website. These documents are very useful and once you have gone through them you will be able to use the site to its full potential. By default the site will give you everything (the safest option). Understanding and using the tools available enables you to filter the data down to exclude irrelevant info. If having used the tools you still getting irrelevant info contact AIS. They are very good at responding. Remember, they don't write the NOTAM, every man and his dog can do that so errors do creep in. AIS do offer advice to promulgators but some just won't be told and have enough clout to override them.
The requirement to register allows NATS to monitor usage and the requirements of different types of user. Registration is free and only takes a few moments. It's no different to the Met Office site but no-one seems to gripe about registering for that. It also allows briefs to be traced. A pilot recently complained that the TRA for the Bournemouth Airshow was not included in his brief. Knowing his username and password AIS were able to trace his brief and find out what went wrong. (He had entered the date incorrectly).
The format and syntax of the information required (including the date) is exactly the same as that for an ICAO Flight Plan. 030826 may not match the normal date format (26/08/03) in the UK but aviation is an international business and we should conform to the internationally agreed format.
AIC's are distributed to aircraft owners. They are not generally regarded as required reading before flight. Among other things AIC's are used when complex or graphical information needs to be disseminated where the NOTAM format is unsuitable. In these cases a NOTAM will be issued referring to the AIC and the AIC should then be consulted for details. A prime example of this is the AIC for the PFA Rally. You will not find an AIC being issued on its own for a TRA. There will always be a NOTAM referring you to the AIC.
I hope this helps clear up some of the confusion
Mike
It's good to see someone recognising that despite the fact that blame can be ascribed fairly and squarely to the offender there are nonetheless still things that can be done by others to reduce the likelyhood of infringements.
For those who are having problems with the AIS site here are a number of pointers.
Guidance on which type of briefing to use can be found here. You will also find details on alternative methods of getting briefs. Not having Internet access is no excuse for not briefing. You can get them by fax or telephone.
For those who hanker after a geographic sort it is still available, look at the VFR FIR briefs.
Background reading here
Print the FAQ's and PIB Help off the website. These documents are very useful and once you have gone through them you will be able to use the site to its full potential. By default the site will give you everything (the safest option). Understanding and using the tools available enables you to filter the data down to exclude irrelevant info. If having used the tools you still getting irrelevant info contact AIS. They are very good at responding. Remember, they don't write the NOTAM, every man and his dog can do that so errors do creep in. AIS do offer advice to promulgators but some just won't be told and have enough clout to override them.
The requirement to register allows NATS to monitor usage and the requirements of different types of user. Registration is free and only takes a few moments. It's no different to the Met Office site but no-one seems to gripe about registering for that. It also allows briefs to be traced. A pilot recently complained that the TRA for the Bournemouth Airshow was not included in his brief. Knowing his username and password AIS were able to trace his brief and find out what went wrong. (He had entered the date incorrectly).
The format and syntax of the information required (including the date) is exactly the same as that for an ICAO Flight Plan. 030826 may not match the normal date format (26/08/03) in the UK but aviation is an international business and we should conform to the internationally agreed format.
AIC's are distributed to aircraft owners. They are not generally regarded as required reading before flight. Among other things AIC's are used when complex or graphical information needs to be disseminated where the NOTAM format is unsuitable. In these cases a NOTAM will be issued referring to the AIC and the AIC should then be consulted for details. A prime example of this is the AIC for the PFA Rally. You will not find an AIC being issued on its own for a TRA. There will always be a NOTAM referring you to the AIC.
I hope this helps clear up some of the confusion
Mike
A correction if I may Mike. AIC (and until recently, ANs) are sent to registered owners of aircraft with a CofA. CAA does not send them to owners of either microlights or gliders (that's about 1/4 of all aircraft in UK airspace). (ANs now aren't sent to anybody, you are expected to look it up on the web too.)
And a thought, I personally regard NOTAMS as "weather", that is things in the sky that may affect my safe flying, and are bookmarked on my web browser accordingly. Now weather information is certainly more easily, cheaply and widely available than NOTAM information - okay, that's at-least partly because far more people than just aviators are interested in weather.
However, two main sources of Wx for aviators are ATIS and VOLMET. Although it might add, say 30 seconds onto the ATIS tape and a minute or so onto the VOLMET tape, I don't think that many people would find that unacceptable. If, say, each station transmitted NOTAMS (and of-course purple/sparrows data) for a fixed radius determined to ensure that we have complete UK coverage, then we could dial up before flight on radio or phone, or by RT, and equally call up NOTAMS en-route if considering a diversion. For that matter anybody planning a local trip should be able to get all the information they need from their base ATIS.
Worth exploring perhaps? Speaking as somebody who does often fly from grass-strips in the middle of nowhere, I'd use the facility - even more so if the met office can be persuaded to stop using a premium rate number for Volmet!
Expanding upon that thought slightly, if you look at the LARS coverage diagram - that only runs to 30nm radius and gives very wide coverage - presumably all the LARS servicing airfields provide ATIS and tying LARS and NOTAM coverage would simplify the issue of understanding where to go for information.
G
And a thought, I personally regard NOTAMS as "weather", that is things in the sky that may affect my safe flying, and are bookmarked on my web browser accordingly. Now weather information is certainly more easily, cheaply and widely available than NOTAM information - okay, that's at-least partly because far more people than just aviators are interested in weather.
However, two main sources of Wx for aviators are ATIS and VOLMET. Although it might add, say 30 seconds onto the ATIS tape and a minute or so onto the VOLMET tape, I don't think that many people would find that unacceptable. If, say, each station transmitted NOTAMS (and of-course purple/sparrows data) for a fixed radius determined to ensure that we have complete UK coverage, then we could dial up before flight on radio or phone, or by RT, and equally call up NOTAMS en-route if considering a diversion. For that matter anybody planning a local trip should be able to get all the information they need from their base ATIS.
Worth exploring perhaps? Speaking as somebody who does often fly from grass-strips in the middle of nowhere, I'd use the facility - even more so if the met office can be persuaded to stop using a premium rate number for Volmet!
Expanding upon that thought slightly, if you look at the LARS coverage diagram - that only runs to 30nm radius and gives very wide coverage - presumably all the LARS servicing airfields provide ATIS and tying LARS and NOTAM coverage would simplify the issue of understanding where to go for information.
G
Join Date: Aug 2001
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Hi Mike,
Thanks for the explanation once more.
As I said before it is now useable but still not user friendly.
It still produces reams of paper if you (like me) want to print it off to take with you with duplications. You can not edit that out to save a few trees.
Is there any progress with a visual representation of the information?
FD
Thanks for the explanation once more.
As I said before it is now useable but still not user friendly.
It still produces reams of paper if you (like me) want to print it off to take with you with duplications. You can not edit that out to save a few trees.
Is there any progress with a visual representation of the information?
FD