baggersup:

A short and simple statement that says much:

A very simple approach that has been lost to BASSA and its more militant followers while they have been only willing to listen the cacophony of their own messages.

Lost is in their noise is something any skilled negotiater could see as their largest weakness. They weren't listening to the silence.

Reading BA's responses, and Unite's engagement, should tell them "This is it". I'm almost wishful that they strike so that they are forced to learn one of life's big lessons regarding business. Its not enough to scream...you also have to listen.

If there was a way to figure sushi into this it would almost be a perfect storm. :)

BBC News - BA to restore some crew travel perks
Interesting reading.

So thats what an olive branch looks like.

Over 50 hours of talks
 

Acas statement
____reference:-___link

ACAS have always talked drivel when they pat themselves on the back for providing 3 or 4 meeting rooms.
That's all they really do - provide meeting rooms. 1 for each "side" as adjournment rooms, and 1 for the few minutes spent in "talks", plus 1 for corridor discussions.

There have never, ever been 50 hours of talks in any dispute. None of the participants has got enough to say.

Most of the time spent at ACAS is in adjournments, not in talks.
Seldom does any ACAS paid official contribute anything worth listenning to.

Thank you Oh Ancient One for your most valuable advice._ I am only 78 years old._ Will I also become old and grumpy when I reach your great age?

I think there's a training course you can take, if you meet the age requirements. But - you have to be willing to listen, so no union negotiators are allowed. :ok:

Entaxei
 

I do love a sweeping generalisation.

Notlangley, et al,

Surprisingly, you do not need to be old to discover how monumentally incompetent at decent ER ACAS actually are.

Just turn up as a participant in any dispute on either side :{to learn that their only valid role is as someone who hires out rooms..................for free in most cases. (But not in the case of mediation and/or arbitration, when they want to charge you for the rooms and for the planks that come with the rooms.)

Litebulbs

- are you going to join Diplome and I on the fundamental review of BA ER??

From the main thread...

What a depressing post. The CDS's may well view the offer as unacceptable (they still have to push a trolley after all :rolleyes:) but do they not think that their fellow crew should be permitted to have a say in their own future?

Over on the other thread, I was amazed to see that someone stated something along the lines of what would all the BASSA bashers do if the offer was accepted and that they should get a life and stop interfering in other peoples business.

Quite amazing: After all the damage that has been done by one group, endangering the rest of the employees futures (I am not one) and perhaps at the time, the future of the airline not to mention the disruption to travel plans of thousands, this does seem to show how insular they are, ignorant of the consequences of their own actions on others, the real world and the hardships befalling others elsewhere.

Mariner 9,

Indeed depressing, as you state. Their ability to comprehend the harsh reality of the economy at the moment, the contributions asked and made by others and their insular approach is quite astounding!

Ted

These are extracts from a blog on www.newlftproject.orgRon Pursey, Unite convenor at the engineering company Cummins, said
As would be expected the commentator has views and this anonymous person says
_______reference:-________link

Do you agree with Les Bayliss? I do. I have spoken to him on the issue and fully support his position. But that is from an Amicus mindset:ok:

Dis-United
 

It is a tragedy that this division goes on and on.
____reference:-________link-1
____reference:-________link-2
Is it any wonder that Unite is dysfunctional and Ununited!

notlangley
 

I might agree with the point about Ununited, but what are the links trying to prove, other than the paper was incorrect?

Eventual Outcome?
 

If we are to consider what might be an eventual outcome to this dispute then, while considering the blow-by-blow matters, we also have to keep in mind the high level view.

We must not forget that this is not about imposition, ST, disciplinaries, etc., rather it is a monumental power struggle for who is in control of BA's business operations.

BASSA's leadership or BA's management?

As such this is not a classical union/management dispute over the usual pay, holidays and pensions, which is a common misunderstanding of the press and other casual observers who apply conventional thinking to the issues behind an industrial dispute, rather it is nothing short of a war.

While TW might be saying he has secured the best offer he possibly can and we keep hearing statements to the effect of "working one down is now accepted it's just about ST, disciplinaries, etc." the absolute truth of the matter is that to BASSA's leadership nothing short of restoration of everything prior to this dispute began plus being in control of BA's operations again by knowing BA's management will capitulate when they call a strike will be acceptable.

As such BASSA's leadership will never agree to any TW/Unite negotiated terms and BA's management can never agree to BASSA's leadership being able to influence anything ever again moving forwards otherwise trouble will only break-out again at the slightest issue.

Put bluntly, the only possible outcome of this dispute (war) from the outset was a win for one side by the other side being completely crushed.

I wonder who that will be and how it will eventually happen?

Would love to. Any of you business people got some room on a company card to put me through some mediation training?! It has been pointed out earlier, that as a union negotiator, I need some direction on "active listening"!

w(h)ither now?
 

'miss m' posts from dover: have just noticed there's a dover in california. just a thought.

what worries me, if bassa is to have any (relevant) future, is how the more junior cabin crew can be properly represented? recent posts suggest they are either disinterested or feel they have no control over events and it is left to csds' and pursers to run bassa. it should now be clear that this does not work properly as their sectional interests have been prioritised to the detriment of all (including themselves in the long run).

either unite or the bassa membership need to ensure that no one section amongst the cabin crew can dominate the branch committee again.

it would be interesting to hear if the pccc has addressed this issue of representation yet.

Deja vu one, Deja vu two
 

reply to Litebulbs
1) Mike Coleman was sacked by BA in 1997._ In the correction the Independent did not detract anything more than salary and spitting._ Uniteba says that Mike Coleman was a predecessor of Duncan Holley._ Duncan Holley was sacked by BA this year for the much more moderate reason - non-attendance.________link

2) An incident completely unrelated to Duncan Holley is the assault in the carpark that is significant because it meant that on certain key occasions "BASSA 2000" and "Cabin Crew ‘89" sat in different rooms.