what are my chances
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It's called a "perk of the job." The airline industry is different from any other. If you work in Telecoms you get cheap calls.
Gaza,
I’m playing Devil’s advocate. In fact I have enjoyed the joys (and tribulations) of rebate travel for more than thirty odd years and enjoyed countless upgrades to Business and First. But, objectively speaking, isn’t the perk of cheap or even free travel not sufficient? Is it right that staff travelling on rebate/free tickets are upgraded ahead of and at the expense of fare-paying punters who, after all, pay their salaries and subsidise their rebate travel facilities? Does it not make more commercial sense and good PR to upgrade deserving fare-paying pax from Y to C and free the Y seats for the rebate travellers? I think it’s a little hypocritical to berate fare-paying pax looking for the opportunity of an upgrade whilst in the same breath suggesting that staff should enjoy the perks of cheap travel AND all the luxuries of Business/First Class.
I’m playing Devil’s advocate. In fact I have enjoyed the joys (and tribulations) of rebate travel for more than thirty odd years and enjoyed countless upgrades to Business and First. But, objectively speaking, isn’t the perk of cheap or even free travel not sufficient? Is it right that staff travelling on rebate/free tickets are upgraded ahead of and at the expense of fare-paying punters who, after all, pay their salaries and subsidise their rebate travel facilities? Does it not make more commercial sense and good PR to upgrade deserving fare-paying pax from Y to C and free the Y seats for the rebate travellers? I think it’s a little hypocritical to berate fare-paying pax looking for the opportunity of an upgrade whilst in the same breath suggesting that staff should enjoy the perks of cheap travel AND all the luxuries of Business/First Class.
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No Avman it isn't.
First and Business class seats are premium products. They cost a lot of money to produce and to operate. If they sell then the flight may operate at a higher profit margin. If they are given away the exercise is usually futile. Many "executive card" passengers have got wise to certain airlines past practices of upgrading "members" travelling on economy tickets to a higher class. In turn those same airlines are questioning the viability of this practice. Why pay for a product if the airline is prepared to give it away.
Staff passengers are only ever upgraded if space is available. It is usually a condition of their employment that they refrain from discussing their discounted or upgraded status with fare paying passengers. They are subject to a dress code. They are subject to disciplinary control from the employing airline. They are not usually "awed" by an environment in which they spend the greater part of their working lives. They also enable the airline to display a full premium cabin to potential future travellers. Upgraded passengers are not subject to any of these constraints and are are more likely to irritate passengers who have paid a premium fare by sharing knowledge of their good fortune.
There are clearly times when it is in an airlines interest to offer certain passengers upgrades ( overbooking, technical problems such as broken seats etc ), but it is not advantageous to give the product to anybody who simply asks for it. If they pay the premium they will most certainly take priority. Simply paying "a fare" does not afford a passenger any priority to otherwise empty premium seats except as otherwise stated. It doesn't matter whose wages those passengers fares contribute to. If the product operates at a loss it contributes nothing and actually places pressure on the whole profit base.
Still I like the concept. The next time I am in waitrose I will try suggesting that I get the same discount the staff get after all I contribute to their wages as well. Hmmm no maybe not !
First and Business class seats are premium products. They cost a lot of money to produce and to operate. If they sell then the flight may operate at a higher profit margin. If they are given away the exercise is usually futile. Many "executive card" passengers have got wise to certain airlines past practices of upgrading "members" travelling on economy tickets to a higher class. In turn those same airlines are questioning the viability of this practice. Why pay for a product if the airline is prepared to give it away.
Staff passengers are only ever upgraded if space is available. It is usually a condition of their employment that they refrain from discussing their discounted or upgraded status with fare paying passengers. They are subject to a dress code. They are subject to disciplinary control from the employing airline. They are not usually "awed" by an environment in which they spend the greater part of their working lives. They also enable the airline to display a full premium cabin to potential future travellers. Upgraded passengers are not subject to any of these constraints and are are more likely to irritate passengers who have paid a premium fare by sharing knowledge of their good fortune.
There are clearly times when it is in an airlines interest to offer certain passengers upgrades ( overbooking, technical problems such as broken seats etc ), but it is not advantageous to give the product to anybody who simply asks for it. If they pay the premium they will most certainly take priority. Simply paying "a fare" does not afford a passenger any priority to otherwise empty premium seats except as otherwise stated. It doesn't matter whose wages those passengers fares contribute to. If the product operates at a loss it contributes nothing and actually places pressure on the whole profit base.
Still I like the concept. The next time I am in waitrose I will try suggesting that I get the same discount the staff get after all I contribute to their wages as well. Hmmm no maybe not !
I hear what you're saying Bealzebub. However, I disagree with your logic using the Waitrose example. The waitress may get a staff discount but she will receive the same standard service. In our industry we receive a substantial discount and, more often than not, receive (some even expect) a Premium service!
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Yes avman but that is because you are confusing "service" and "product". In this case the product may include better service but premium class travel is a distinctly different product.
If you are going to sell a premium product you need to do so at a higher price otherwise you may as well stick to the basic product ( economy in this case). If you are compelled to give the product away in certain circumstances then it is better to do so to staff or where it overcomes another greater problem as described.
Airlines want their customers to pay a premium price for the premium product. Their aim is to fill those cabins with premium fare paying customers. Where staff passengers sit is by and large irrelevant. However if a premium cabin is not full, using staff to give the impression that it is may well suit the airlines commercial department ( and often does).
I suspect there are many industries where staff receive a substantial discount on the product and also receive or ( expect ) better service. That is a benefit of knowing the system and the people employed in it. I am sure if I work for a bank I might get a good discount on their mortgage or loan products. I also suspect my application may be processed as a priority. It wouldn't surprise me if some hotel staff receive discounts on rooms and also get free upgrades to better quality room types if available. The same with some car hire company employees etc.
Concorde is a classic example. This was a premium product that was failing. Not enough full fare customers. Some passengers were upgraded from other classes of travel in an attempt to promote the product but that still failed to generate enough new business. It may even have had a negative effect on full fare paying customers who wondered why they had to pay a premium fare when others were being given the product for a lesser price.
Staff were offered this product at a very low price because again it doesn't really matter where you put staff if you want to utilise them to increase your load factors and give the impression of a more in demand product without offending those who have paid for the product.
In summary what you give to your staff is irrelevant. The business survives or dies on the revenue you generate from selling products at the right price to your customers.
(P.S Waitrose is a supermarket. Waitresses ?)
If you are going to sell a premium product you need to do so at a higher price otherwise you may as well stick to the basic product ( economy in this case). If you are compelled to give the product away in certain circumstances then it is better to do so to staff or where it overcomes another greater problem as described.
Airlines want their customers to pay a premium price for the premium product. Their aim is to fill those cabins with premium fare paying customers. Where staff passengers sit is by and large irrelevant. However if a premium cabin is not full, using staff to give the impression that it is may well suit the airlines commercial department ( and often does).
I suspect there are many industries where staff receive a substantial discount on the product and also receive or ( expect ) better service. That is a benefit of knowing the system and the people employed in it. I am sure if I work for a bank I might get a good discount on their mortgage or loan products. I also suspect my application may be processed as a priority. It wouldn't surprise me if some hotel staff receive discounts on rooms and also get free upgrades to better quality room types if available. The same with some car hire company employees etc.
Concorde is a classic example. This was a premium product that was failing. Not enough full fare customers. Some passengers were upgraded from other classes of travel in an attempt to promote the product but that still failed to generate enough new business. It may even have had a negative effect on full fare paying customers who wondered why they had to pay a premium fare when others were being given the product for a lesser price.
Staff were offered this product at a very low price because again it doesn't really matter where you put staff if you want to utilise them to increase your load factors and give the impression of a more in demand product without offending those who have paid for the product.
In summary what you give to your staff is irrelevant. The business survives or dies on the revenue you generate from selling products at the right price to your customers.
(P.S Waitrose is a supermarket. Waitresses ?)
I had to laugh at the Waitrose thing. Not being a UK resident for some reason I’d got it in my mind that it was some sort of family restaurant chain. Well, I was close!Still playing Devil’s advocate, I would argue that by upgrading suitable Y pax instead of staff (at times when upgrades become necessary), the airline has the opportunity to promote their premium product and thus generate potential future sources of premium revenue. I don’t think that load factors in C (artificially pumped up with staff) will convince the punter travelling Y that he’s travelling in the wrong class. However, if he/she is lucky enough to get an upgrade to C and experience the product, he/she may opt to purchase a C class ticket on future trips. With perhaps few exceptions (and I’m one*) that won’t be the case with staff. If the promotion failed with Concorde it’s because that product is just simply way over-priced in the current economic climate. The same goes for Business Class. I think there is still a market for premium travelers but they now want value for money and many carriers fail in that respect.
* Yes, these days I actually pay for Business Class seats when travelling long haul because Mrs Avwoman and I are too old now to put up with the hassle of rebate travel - and potentially cramped conditions (if no upgrade) on long sectors. I do however, shop around for the cheapest (value-for-money) deals with reputable carriers.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
That's actually an argument for upgrading those customers who are apparently new to your airline, not those who are already regulars and have "form" of buying cheap tickets from you. If you upgrade the regulars on cheap tickets, it is highly arguable that you are merely reinforcing their low-spending habits by giving them more than they have paid for. Some carriers on the other side of the wet bit appear to be finding that this is very costly in terms of premium fares not sold (although they also have a problem differentiating between a "premium fare" and a "total rip off").
Paxing All Over The World
Global: (although they also have a problem differentiating between a "premium fare" and a "total rip off"). snicker 
From spending time as pax in both Biz and Eco, as both corporate paid and self paid (again, in both) I see no evidence that upgrading encourages people to buy the premium cabin next time.
Friends of mine who have travelled a fair amount and have the money to pay for (say) World Traveller Plus - but they only pay for Y. On one occasion they were upgraded long haul to WTP. Were they impressed? Not a bit. In fact it reinforced for them that they would not pay for WTP!!
Parents of another friend were going to Israel (I think) on a charter and paid for the premium cabin. Which is mainly space, not service, I gather. They said, "Well it was quite roomy but we didn't think it was worth it and won't do it again."
Conversely, I pay for Premium Economy on my own account and do consider it worth the money - who is to say?
If I was a carrier - I would give very few upgrades. If folks always pay Y, then that is what they can afford or want.
The people to try and locate, I should think, are those who regularly travel with you but have to be in Y, as their companies will not pay for them to sit further forward. These are folk who have to be on your plane and can become big fans when treated right. Locating them could be difficult!
From spending time as pax in both Biz and Eco, as both corporate paid and self paid (again, in both) I see no evidence that upgrading encourages people to buy the premium cabin next time.
Friends of mine who have travelled a fair amount and have the money to pay for (say) World Traveller Plus - but they only pay for Y. On one occasion they were upgraded long haul to WTP. Were they impressed? Not a bit. In fact it reinforced for them that they would not pay for WTP!!
Parents of another friend were going to Israel (I think) on a charter and paid for the premium cabin. Which is mainly space, not service, I gather. They said, "Well it was quite roomy but we didn't think it was worth it and won't do it again."
Conversely, I pay for Premium Economy on my own account and do consider it worth the money - who is to say?
If I was a carrier - I would give very few upgrades. If folks always pay Y, then that is what they can afford or want.
The people to try and locate, I should think, are those who regularly travel with you but have to be in Y, as their companies will not pay for them to sit further forward. These are folk who have to be on your plane and can become big fans when treated right. Locating them could be difficult!
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Xenia
I completely agree with you. I have never been offered and upgrade nor sought one.
Over the years, I've been lucky enough to fly in F and J as well as M and I wonder how many other business are expected to provide extra free services? Everytime I get a hire car upgrade, I'm sure that it is because they have run out of the one I booked and cannot give me a smaller one!
I fly Y or LCA on sectors less than 4 hours and have a Priority Pass for lounge access, which is worth every penny.
If I want to fly in a higher class, I (or more accurately my client) pays for the privilege.
To be fair to Russell, I think that he is seeking more legroom here and if he is tall, I don't blame him YVR is a bit of a haul.
I completely agree with you. I have never been offered and upgrade nor sought one.
Over the years, I've been lucky enough to fly in F and J as well as M and I wonder how many other business are expected to provide extra free services? Everytime I get a hire car upgrade, I'm sure that it is because they have run out of the one I booked and cannot give me a smaller one!
I fly Y or LCA on sectors less than 4 hours and have a Priority Pass for lounge access, which is worth every penny.
If I want to fly in a higher class, I (or more accurately my client) pays for the privilege.
To be fair to Russell, I think that he is seeking more legroom here and if he is tall, I don't blame him YVR is a bit of a haul.
