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Vaccine Passports

Old 15th Mar 2021, 09:46
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Less Hair
Yes something linked to passport would be ideal, but I would take a CC size cert as well just in case. As PAXBoy said he takes paper copies of tracel docs, so do I as technology can fall over at times especially if the operator is tired / jet lagged and some paper or CC does help I find.
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Old 15th Mar 2021, 10:09
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Today the point is to be "registered in somebody's server" regardless of any printout. As boarding passes work without paper these days I'd day we could do vacc passes mobile only as well. Like apple pay for vaccination certificates.
What will be the point? To get some government certified proof of vaccination, the vaccination date(s), type/version and possible end of validity.
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Old 15th Mar 2021, 11:36
  #23 (permalink)  
Son of Slot
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One useful aspect of carrying back-up printed copies of travel documents is - social distancing! You can hand the document over or hold it up without them having to get close to you phone. Perhaps print in larger type.
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Old 15th Mar 2021, 13:11
  #24 (permalink)  

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Many thanks to those who have responded to my post and addressed the points and questions I raised.

It's not the cost or the technical aspects that I'm concerned about personally. When I first went online at home nearly 25 years ago I don't suppose more than 20-30% of the UK's population was online then. People would ask me what the internet was, and in those days I helped a number to get online themselves, some of whom now have the latest bells and whistles smartphones. I've had a basic pay-as-you-go moble phone for nearly the same lenght of time as my internet connectivity but have never felt the need to access the web by other than my desktop - ten years ago I did switch from Microsoft to iMac.

My point really is why should everyone be expected to run their lives, at least in part, via the internet? I really do know people who would struggle with a smartphone if the only way they could travel was by using digital technology. If such things as vaccine certificates become a reality and can only be used digitally then I will have no option but to fall in line if I want to continue travelling abroad.

Once again, many thanks for the helpful comments. They are appreciated.
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Old 15th Mar 2021, 15:29
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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MV - society moves on - I can remember when having a fixed line telephone was rare and everything was done by post

In the last few years we've had to print our own boarding cards, checkin online, get ESTA s etc (only online) . It rarely all happens at once but constant change is the way of the world I'm afraid
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Old 18th Mar 2021, 17:32
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
In the last few years we've had to print our own boarding cards, checkin online, get ESTA s etc (only online) . It rarely all happens at once but constant change is the way of the world I'm afraid
Hopefully the boarding card printing will be a thing of the past soon.
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Old 19th Mar 2021, 08:41
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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I print the b***** things and when i get to the egates they're often refused so I have to trail back to the desk. And the number of people there with boarding cards on their phones doesn't indicate that that method is much better
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Old 19th Mar 2021, 10:30
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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The current passport has chips that contain information. Can anyone tell me if there would be space to include vaccination data which would make the whole process seemless. As mentioned one approach would be to have an ESTA approach with proof of vaccine required when applying. This obviously needs the co-operation of the administration issuing the passport and the ESTA would ideally be valid for all countries (some chance of that happening I know). The advantage is that it would be far harder to counterfeit and simple at passport control. although again the issuing of ESTAs would require the co-operation of the issuing nation.

I don't have a smartphone and requiring me to acquire one would in effect be a hefty tax. There are computer sceptics like me who struggle with computers, for example by forgetting to turn off autoplay functions and getting two things playing at once (and then closing the wrong window). How do I stop unwanted e-mails? Then I find that computers are always updating at the wrong time - if I were to turn my phone one I would probably see see system updating in the passport queue.. Yes I am sure that a competent teenage could sort things out in no time at all but I am not of that demographic. Rant over!
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Old 20th Mar 2021, 00:44
  #29 (permalink)  
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There probably is space on the chip - you would be surprised how much data can be placed in such chips.
My guess is that this will take a minimum of five years as the UN would have to cordinate all nations to write/read the data in the same way - then for passports to start holding it. It probably will happen.
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Old 21st Mar 2021, 19:39
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Anything paper is useless and it will be knocked off in no time. There has to be something that can be verified by the vaccinating country and tied to the person asking for verification, which means it must be tied to a verifiable ID (passport, national ID) in one way or the other.

IATA would have been ideal as they already have the network, the app and all it would need is a country's immigration and the vaccinating government to tie the relevant parts of the vaccination database to it and allow it to be queried - all securely.

If every airline and/or country goes it's own way, and immigration officers are expected to evaluate a mass of disparate forms of vaccination verification, there are going to be some long waits at airports in our future IMHO.



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Old 22nd Mar 2021, 12:55
  #31 (permalink)  
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The BBC has a series on Radio 4 called How To Vaccinate The World this is also available as a Podcast.
The episode first broadcast on Monday 1st March is on Vaccine Passports. Obviously, everthing changes all the time.

Last edited by PAXboy; 22nd Mar 2021 at 20:02.
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Old 30th Mar 2021, 10:05
  #32 (permalink)  
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From The Washington Post:
‘Vaccine passports’ are on the way, but developing them won’t be easy. White House-led effort tries to corral more than a dozen initiatives.
Hoping to travel in 2021? You might need a vaccine passport.
Proof of vaccination to travel or attend school is not new, but the coronavirus has introduced a potential need to modernize outdated paper standards. (Jonathan Baran/The Washington Post)
By Dan Diamond, Lena H. Sun and Isaac Stanley-Becker
March 28, 2021 at 4:00 p.m. GMT+1

The Biden administration and private companies are working to develop a standard way of handling credentials — often referred to as “vaccine passports” — that would allow Americans to prove they have been vaccinated against the novel coronavirus as businesses try to reopen.

The effort has gained momentum amid President Biden’s pledge that the nation will start to regain normalcy this summer and with a growing number of companies — from cruise lines to sports teams — saying they will require proof of vaccination before opening their doors again.
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Old 30th Mar 2021, 14:00
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Vaccine Passports
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Old 30th Mar 2021, 16:47
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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I feel there may be some ambiguity in the word "passport". It is arguable that we need not only a solution for international travel but for domestic purposes too.
Staying with the passport as an international document it has been suggested here that you need data space in the chip on the passport. I disagree. Think about the ESTA (and for that matter a US visa). That isn't loaded onto the chip. The passport is scanned at the airport and a message is sent to the US to ask if the pasenger is OK to travel. You don't need anything other than details already on the chip. You arrive at US immigration and the scan the passport again and they could quite easily send a message to the UK database "is this person vaccinated?". XML across the internet (plus some security) and it's done.
I've used the US and the UK as an example but the principle should be possible worldwide.
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Old 30th Mar 2021, 20:24
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hartington View Post
I feel there may be some ambiguity in the word "passport". It is arguable that we need not only a solution for international travel but for domestic purposes too.
Staying with the passport as an international document it has been suggested here that you need data space in the chip on the passport. I disagree. Think about the ESTA (and for that matter a US visa). That isn't loaded onto the chip. The passport is scanned at the airport and a message is sent to the US to ask if the pasenger is OK to travel. You don't need anything other than details already on the chip. You arrive at US immigration and the scan the passport again and they could quite easily send a message to the UK database "is this person vaccinated?". XML across the internet (plus some security) and it's done.
I've used the US and the UK as an example but the principle should be possible worldwide.
Sounds easy, in practice it would be very difficult.

What you have described is a bilateral arrangement whereby the passport issuing authority (say the UK) who have encoded the chip with your ID have to supply the country you are travelling to (say the USA) with proof of the the vaccination status of the passport holder.

That would work fine for the two countries involved (and possibly reciprocally).

But multiply that by all the combinations of passport issuing authorities, vaccinating nations and countries that travellers want to go to, and it rapidly becomes extremely complicated.

IHMO, the only way such a worldwide system has even a chance of being implemented is under the auspices of ICAO, or even its parent the UN. I'm not holding my breath.
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Old 30th Mar 2021, 21:51
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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The airlines exchange messages all the time - millions of them. When the US started the process of demanding passenger lists so that they could authroise the aircraft to depart the airlines knuckled down and met the requirement.
Look at it the other way - you need to define how the data is going to be formatted in the passport chip. Then you have to get it loaded - you don't want people able to add it themselves. But, you'll find that the whole point of the chip is that it is read only. If you made it possible to add things after creation the potential for fraud would be enormous. If it was possible to add things to the passport chip surely visas would be added but Im not aware that happens.
This is the specification https://www.icao.int/publications/Do...p9_cons_en.pdf and you need section 5.3 which says:

"This edition of Doc 9303 is based on the assumption that eMRTDs will not be written to after personalization. Therefore the personalization process SHOULDlock the contactless IC as a final step. Once the contactless IC has been locked (after personalization and before issuance) no further data can be written to, modified or deleted from the contactless IC. After issuance a locked contactless IC cannot be unlocked."
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Old 30th Mar 2021, 22:42
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hartington View Post
Look at it the other way - you need to define how the data is going to be formatted in the passport chip. Then you have to get it loaded - you don't want people able to add it themselves. But, you'll find that the whole point of the chip is that it is read only. If you made it possible to add things after creation the potential for fraud would be enormous.
I don't disagree with any of that.

As I said, the solution, however it might be implemented, is far from easy.
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Old 31st Mar 2021, 06:45
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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I had my second jab yesterday and while waiting I saw a sign up concerning a new app that the MOH is promoting so when I got home I downloaded it. Everything here is smartphone and if you can't use one, you cannot even get into the shops so this is called Health Hub and it has the records of my 2 jabs. It shows the date and place I had them, which variant it was, and the batch number. They also gave me a piece of paper with the same details.

The paper thing I think is quite worthless, anyone can print anything these days but perhaps the Health Hub would work. Certainly getting back into Singapore I would imagine so.
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Old 31st Mar 2021, 07:35
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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The paper thing I think is quite worthless, anyone can print anything these days
Agreed. How would you convince an immigration officer in say Egypt who probably can't read anything other than a passport that a Dr's note is proof of jabs? What a shame we don't have ID cards, but that debate is for another time.
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Old 31st Mar 2021, 14:54
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Just as long as we don't need a separate app for each country and each airline.................
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