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Dog dies in overhead locker on UA

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Dog dies in overhead locker on UA

Old 14th Mar 2018, 23:08
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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The FA was in a tough position and made a judgement call.
What complete and utter nonsense! Take the trouble to read the airline's apology and you might understand the truth.

I wonder whether that ignorant FA will be haunted by the thought of the terrifying last few moments of his young life that poor little 10 month old puppy suffered thanks to her actions...

What action has UA actually taken against that woman?
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 23:12
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Intruder,
It is not "lack of concern", but an ABUNDANCE of concern that the OWNER of the dog was so irresponsible!
IMHO, you are off the radar scope here. The problem was that the flight attendant apparently was poorly trained or wasn't trained at all in this aspect of the job. It wouldn't be a surprise. United combined with Continental not long ago and have struggled to bring the two cultures together. The dog was very small, the container was of a size approved by United. Maybe the continued scrunching together of seats to add revenue without changing animal carrier sizes was a contributing factor, who knows. For sure, United has done a terrible job of putting customers first, human or animal.

Your accusation is just bizarre!
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 23:18
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
What complete and utter nonsense!
So your position, then, is that the FA should have kicked the family off the flight, since they were clearly unable to comply with the conditions for pet carriage.

Do I have that right?
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 23:19
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Thud105 View Post
" the cries of the little animal incarcerated in the overhead locker could be heard during the flight." Why the hell didn't THAT person (who apparently is also a dog owner) say something? Rather than reporting it later, why did that person not consider doing something then? Surely someone should have said something?
Bingo - and I believe that person had the same breed - and knew they might have difficulty breathing.
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 23:26
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sptraveller View Post
All the FA had to do was follow the airlines policy correctly.
Correct. Fifi won't fit under the seat, so you people are not flying with us today.
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 23:27
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Zombywoof, try reading the full facts and you might perhaps understand that the family complied exactly with the carrier's requirements, but the ignorant FA thought that she knew better...

Meanwhile, from MarketWatch:
Dog’s death on United flight should result in family being ‘significantly compensated’, says lawyer of man dragged from flight
(by Mark DeCambre)

Demetrio says family of the dead dog should be ‘significantly compensated’
The lawyer for the man who was dragged off a United Airlines flight says family of the dog should be “significantly compensated,” for the tragic death of the pet.

According to reports, a United flight attendant insisted that a dog be placed in the overhead compartment for the entirety of the flight even though it was held in a TSA-approved pet carrier.

Thomas Demetrio, partner at Chicago law firm Corboy & Demetrio, who handled the case of Dr. David Dao, who was dragged from a United Airlines flight a year ago, told MarketWatch in a phone interview that “there’s clearly a legal claim, it’s just a matter of United avoiding that.”

The attorney said United Continental Holdings Inc. the parent of United Airlines, should step up with an out-of-court settlement.

“I think that the compensation should be significant. I really think so. I think this was a very traumatic experience. This dog was effectively murdered right above them,” the attorney said.

He also said that the average flier fears disobeying or questioning crew members.

“People understand much more so after Dr. Dao that you don’t mess with the flight attendant. They rule the world and if there’s controversy they will simply run to the captain” and recommend a removal from the flight, he said.

Demetrio declined to comment on how much Dao received from the airline after his well-publicized incident.

‘I think that the compensation should be significant. I really think so. I think this was a very traumatic experience. This dog was effectively murdered right above them.’ said Thomas Demetrio, partner at Chicago law firm Corboy and Demetrio.

United has since apologized: “We assume full responsibility for this tragedy and express our deepest condolences to the family and are committed to supporting them. We are thoroughly investigating what occurred to prevent this from ever happening again.”

As for the death of the dog, Demetrio explained that he was a dog lover and said “It’s really the opposite of compassion that occurred.”

“I am a dog lover, but even a non-dog lover has to be somewhat amazed that a flight attendant would think it was a good idea that the dog be placed in an overhead bin. It’s United’s obligation to a passenger carrying a dog to use common sense and to supply safety and obviously it failed to supply safety. It was really very poorly handled,” he said.

Shares of United finished the day down 2.6% in Wednesday trade.
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 23:33
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
the family complied exactly with the carrier's requirements,
Did the dog carrier fit under the seat? If it didn't, then it goes in the cargo hold. Those are the rules.
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 23:36
  #68 (permalink)  
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The lawyer for the man who was dragged off a United Airlines flight says family of the dog should be “significantly compensated,” for the tragic death of the pet.
It wouldn't surprise me if Tom Demetrio (conveniently located in Chicago) has based his entire career on suing only United. He probably sees no need to look elsewhere -- as they say, "it's a fertile field to plow."
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 23:43
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Zombywoof, yet again I suggest that you read the full facts.

This was a TSA-compliant pet carrier which would have fitted under the seat.

From ABC13:
The seven-year-old daughter of the woman whose French bulldog died after being forced into an overhead bin by a United Airlines flight attendant is speaking out, saying the United employee lied about what happened during the tragic flight.

“While we were flying, the dog started barking and barking and there was no flight attendants coming. We couldn't stand up because there was a lot of turbulence so we weren't allowed to," Sophia Ceballos, speaking on behalf of her mother, Catalina Robledo, told ABC 13.

Ceballos said that attempts to inform the flight attendant of the severity of the situation during the four-hour flight from Houston’s Bush Intercontinental Airport to New York’s LaGuardia Airport were unsuccessful.

“She said, 'Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know it was a dog. I thought it was a normal bag.' But we told her it was a dog, she's lying,” the teary-eyed girl says in video footage obtained by the outlet.
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 23:48
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
Zombywoof, yet again I suggest that you read the full facts.
You'll excuse me if I don't accept the word of a seven year old with a vested interest as "the facts".
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 23:53
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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How about the words of another witness:

Passenger Maggie Gremminger told The New York Times:

“The pet owner was very adamant that she did not want to put the pet carrier up above,” Gremminger said. “She was saying verbally, ‘My dog is in here, no, this is my dog.’ The flight attendant, in response, really just continued to ask her to put it above because it was a hazard where it was, it was a safety emergency, someone could trip.”

Gremminger said that she and her fellow travelers were horrified to learn the animal had died later in the trip, according to People.

“A stranger offered to hold her newborn while she sat on the floor, there in the airplane aisle. She was holding her dog and rocking back and forth. Her daughter was also crying,” she told the publication about the scene following the discovery.

Gremminger further divulged that once Kokito was found dead, the flight attendant became "frazzled" and insisted she did not know there was a live animal in the carrier.

"I want to help this woman and her daughter. They lost their dog because of a United flight attendant. My heart is broken,” she wrote on Twitter, sharing a photo of the family.

"She said, 'Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know it was a dog. I thought it was a normal bag.' But we told her it was a dog, she's lying.”
Also see: United flight attendant who forced dog into overhead bin 'lying,' owner's daughter says | Fox News

Don't you have any compassion for this family and their much-loved French Bulldog puppy?
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 00:00
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
How about the words of another witness:
Your witness verifies the dog was not under the seat.

Was this flight underway or on the ground? If it's on the ground, then the correct action is to present the ultimatum, "the dog goes under the seat or you don't fly".

If it's underway and they have put the dog in the aisle because it was barking, then the correct action is, "I'm sorry but the dog has to go back under the seat".
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 00:05
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
Don't you have any compassion for this family and their much-loved French Bulldog puppy?
Of course I do. I also have compassion for the FA who is being hung out to dry. How do you know it's not the family who is lying, not the FA?
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 00:10
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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The FA deserves no sympathy whatsoever. As witnesses have stated, she was told that the carrier held the dog, but insisted that the carrier went into the overhead locker. Quite how anyone can be so dim-witted is beyond me.

Nevertheless, United have admitted that they were wrong, so it will now be a matter for the lawyers to secure the best possible compensation for the grieving family. I hope that they will soon have another French Bulldog to cherish, but it will be a long time before they will be able to overcome their grief over this shocking event.
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 00:40
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Zombywoof View Post
Of course I do. I also have compassion for the FA who is being hung out to dry. How do you know it's not the family who is lying, not the FA?
So, the family is lying, the witnesses are lying, everyone is lying except the FA? Far more likely the FA didn't think things through, was caught out by the tragic outcome, and is trying to cover her behind.
There are standard dimensions for items intended to fit under the seat (such as pet carriers)- however sometimes the airlines install extra equipment under some seats (IFE is common) and compliant items won't fit. Assuming the reports are correct that this was a compliant pet carrier, but it wouldn't fit under the seat in front (presumably because there was some extra equipment installed there), the FA responsibility is to find a seat that it will fit and rearrange passengers as required. It's no different than the person sitting in exit row seat that isn't willing or able to accept the responsibilities that go with that.
If an airline charged a fee to carry a dog in an on-board pet carrier, they are contractually obligated to do so, and do so without endangering the welfare of the dog.
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 00:41
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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UA's specification for pet carriers says:

The recommended maximum dimensions for soft-sided kennels are 18 inches long x 11 inches wide x 11 inches high (46 cm x 28 cm x 28 cm). Soft-sided pet carriers may exceed these dimensions slightly, as they are collapsible and able to conform to under-seat space without blocking the aisle.
This picture of the dog carrier in question looks the right size to me.



If it didn't fit, there's presumably something wrong with UA's measurements. Or is the 'fits under the seat' assessment left to individual FAs as a judgement call?

I can see that this bag looks similar to normal luggage, but surely FAs are given some instruction on what pet carriers look like?
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 00:42
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Meanwhile,

UAL sends a 10 year old German Shepherd headed to KC to Japan instead and swaps that with a Great Dane that was supposed to go to Japan.

And now the DoT is launching an investigation into the death of the puppy.
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 01:08
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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The family deserves the bulk of the sympathy
Absolutely no sympathy at all, given the breed of dog, and place absolutely no blame at the feet of the unfortunate FA embroiled in the aftermath. Sympathy aplenty for the unfortunate animal being owned by people who have no understanding of the breed or its proclivities.

Banned by Many Airlines, These Bulldogs Fly Private - The New York Times

Airlines have always had varying restrictions on animal travel. There are a few carriers, like Alaska Airlines, Frontier Airlines, Hawaiian Airlines and Sun Country, that still allow brachycephalic breeds to fly in cargo. And most animals are generally allowed to fly in the passenger cabin if they weigh less than 20 pounds, as some French bulldogs and many pugs do.

But the clear trend among commercial airlines is toward an outright ban on brachycephalic breeds.

American Airlines banned brachycephalic breeds of dogs and cats shortly after four bulldogs died on its planes in a three-month period in 2010. Delta stopped accepting French, English and American bulldogs this year, after three bulldogs died from January to March.

United and Continental Airlines, which had two bulldogs die in their care this spring, banned brachycephalic dog breeds from flying during the summer, lifting the restriction on Sept. 16, when temperatures began to drop.

According to the federal Agriculture Department, 189 animals died on commercial flights from June 2005 to June 2011; of those animals, 98 — more than half — were brachycephalic breeds.

The breeds, which also include Persian and Himalayan cats, have smaller openings to their noses and elongated soft palates on the roofs of their mouths, which make breathing more difficult for them, veterinarians said. Those breathing problems can be magnified in stressful situations like air travel, and further exacerbated in extreme heat.

The airlines’ growing no-fly lists have set off a debate between pet owners and veterinarians about whether these dogs should fly at all.

Some veterinarians who have operated on the dogs to open up their nasal passages said that surgery could help somewhat with breathing and perhaps make flying safer. Other veterinarians refuse to sign medical paperwork allowing the dogs to fly in cargo.
The reason they are banned is because of the difficulty they have breathing. A 8,000 foot cabin altitude is sure going to help in that regard.
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 01:41
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
The FA deserves no sympathy whatsoever.
Ok. Imagine you are the FA. The flight is underway. There is a dog in the aisle. You are responsible for keeping that aisle unobstructed. The people put the dog in the aisle because it was barking when under the seat. (I have some doubts about this story, but anyway...).

So if you make them put the dog back under the seat, which is your duty, the dog will bark and drive everyone nuts. What will you do? That dog has to be removed from the aisle. How will you solve this?

Obviously putting the dog in the overhead bin is unacceptable. You wouldn't do it, I wouldn't do it, and it's hard to believe anyone would do it.

If the flight is still on the ground prior to departure, it's a whole different ball of wax. Again, you are the FA. The dog is in the aisle, and it has to be removed. The people resist. Do you call security and have a mother with two kids removed? Do you try to come up with a way to allow them to stay?

No matter how you slice it, putting the dog in the bin is ridiculous. Nobody is arguing that point. I'm just saying, whether in the air or on the ground, the FA was in a sticky situation. Sometimes under pressure people make bad decisions.

There was another bad decision made here.... the decision of the owner to leave the dog in the bin. If it's me, I'm taking that dog out of there the minute the FA leaves, and if I get any more static about it I'm holding that dog tight and asking for the Capt.

This lady did nothing. Yet she wears a halo while the FA wears devil horns.
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Old 15th Mar 2018, 01:44
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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Megan
The question you're avoiding is:
Would the dog have died if it hadn't been placed in a minimally ventilation overhead? Something the FA improperly and in violation of the rules of carriage forced the woman to do?
Ok, the dog breed in question doesn't breath very well - something that placing it sealed inside a minimally ventilated overhead almost certainly made considerably worse.
BTW, just returned from a ski vacation in Breckenridge - altitude 9,600 ft. Pet dogs are very common there - and I saw a couple bulldogs during our visit.
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