American Airlines pax hit with stroller
AA's Terms & Conditions contain no such reference.
American Airlines Conditions of Carriage
He didn't mention AA by name, but I would imagine most major carriers have roughly the same T&Cs.
Personally I've got better things to do with my life than trawl through small print; after all, if I don't agree with them I can't buy a product / travel with a company!
txl:
"Eric" puts the whole affair into some sort of perspective. it beggars belief that someone should be allowed through the door of the aircraft carry that much stuff. What were they thinking of?
Personally I've got better things to do with my life than trawl through small print; after all, if I don't agree with them I can't buy a product / travel with a company!
txl:
"Eric" puts the whole affair into some sort of perspective. it beggars belief that someone should be allowed through the door of the aircraft carry that much stuff. What were they thinking of?
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The fact that some of you twits reach for law enforcement because you lack the goddamn interpersonal skills and flexibility to solve a frigging problem on your own makes me sick. How difficult would it have been to explain to her that her stroller would be waiting for her at the door in Houston? Seriously, give that one some 
thought and get back to the sane people reading this.
thought and get back to the sane people reading this.This is the trouble we face - uninformed, possibly ignorant posts. By your very post you show your ignorance yet you have the gall to pontificate on what should happen
Making comments not knowing the full story and even getting basic reported facts wrong - maybe leave it to the sane people
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As someone who's had to travel by air with a baby and a very young toddler, I have to tell you that your nerves are shredded by the time you get onto the plane. Miles of walking (you can't usually get the buggy onto a moving walkway), constantly looking for specialist bathroom facilities, trying to time feeding schedules, at any one time at least one child making a loud noise - it can be hell. Then you get to the gate and they take your buggy away, and you wonder what would happen if you had to deplane in a hurry....
The thing about babies is THEY CAN'T WALK. You can't put them down for even a second unless you're willing to lie them on the ground under everyone's feet. With two babies, you have no hands free for anything. If the buggy is put in the hold, you won't get it back if they need to get you of the plane fast. You'll be standing on the tarmac with arms struggling to hold two heavy objects. This constant sense of vulnerability is...not unstressful.
In other words, FAs need to be taught to treat mothers travelling with babies as if they're grenades with the pins out. They're not normal passengers, they're people being stress-tested by psychopaths.
The thing about babies is THEY CAN'T WALK. You can't put them down for even a second unless you're willing to lie them on the ground under everyone's feet. With two babies, you have no hands free for anything. If the buggy is put in the hold, you won't get it back if they need to get you of the plane fast. You'll be standing on the tarmac with arms struggling to hold two heavy objects. This constant sense of vulnerability is...not unstressful.
In other words, FAs need to be taught to treat mothers travelling with babies as if they're grenades with the pins out. They're not normal passengers, they're people being stress-tested by psychopaths.
Well the flight attendants' union seem to think that it was an FA:
Video shows intense moments between passengers, American Airlines crew | WFAA.com
Video shows intense moments between passengers, American Airlines crew | WFAA.com
Looked at the video in a bit of a rush...apologies..this from our pilot boards..
PostPosted: 4/22/2017 Post subject: Reply with quote
Taken from APC. There is always more to the story....
Description going around- apologies for the formatting:
I was on this flight directly across the isle from the woman filming the video. This is what I observed: 1.) woman gets on the plane pushing a car seat type stroller with one child in it, carrying a second child on her hip and dragging behind a very large folded stroller that was too big for the overhead bin or to go under a seat. 2.) the flight attendant shown in the video approached from the back of the plane and informed her in a calm manner that there was nowhere to store the stroller. The woman immediately escalated the situation and within about 30 seconds was screaming at him at the top of her lungs. 3.) the flight attendant evidently decided she was not fit to be on the flight (in my opinion the correct decision) and started to move her and her children towards the front of the plane. 4.) when they got to the from of the plane the woman decided she was not going any further. The flight attendant picked up the stroller and lifted it over his head to try and move past the woman. As he was doing this she pushed him and the stroller fell a bit and struck her in the face. She began crying loudly and dramatically. Shortly after this is where the video begins. 5.) The first class passenger then inserts himself into the drama with his faux chivalry but clearly has no idea what has transpired in the back of the plane since he was in a window seat in the first class section of the plane and could not have viewed the incident from his seat. 6.) after another 10 minutes or so the woman exits the plane only to be returned about 5 minutes later and taken to her seat. We wait another 30-40 minutes while various flight and ground crew come and go speaking to the woman. After about 40 minutes she deplanes again this time telling all of the passengers, who are now becoming vocal in support of the flight crew, that all she wanted was an apology from the flight attendant. Evidently that's what the 40 minute delay was all about. Then we waited another 10 minutes for the ground crew to find and remove her luggage from the belly of the plane. 7.) the flight finally leaves and arrives in Dallas an hour or so late. American representatives are waiting at the gate to speak with the first class passenger who made the threats. What I heard was a very apologetic tone coming from two American employees, as if the airline had done something to upset the first class passenger. 8.) when I entered the bag claim area the first class passenger was right in front of me and as soon as he made it through the revolving door there was a camera crew waiting for him on the other side to interview him. That's about as factual of an account as I can provide and I realize there may be other parts of this story that I do not know about or did not witness. From what I saw: a.) if anyone from American should have been punished it should be the ground crew who somehow letting this woman on board with a full size stroller. The flight attendant was put in a horrible situation by a passenger that most passengers in my immediate area thought seemed unstable. She escalated the situation, not him. b.) in my opinion, the first class passenger should have been removed. Had the flight been in progress he might very well have been arrested upon landing for threatening a crew member. Additionally, he could not have seen any of the back of the plane antics of the woman based on where he was seated. c.) I agree the flight attendant may have reacted too harshly in responding to the threatening customer in first class, but his actions with the woman in question were professional throughout the ordeal. I am disappointed American has chosen to punish him.
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It all sounds so terribly simple, doesn't it? Take the stroller and tell the passenger it will be there for her when she arrives at her destination.
Well how about this:
My wife, my infant sprog and myself were on a BA flight from Frankfurt to Heathrow. I don't remember what the aircraft was, probably a 737. Whatever, I was sat next to the window and I looked out out of my window to see our stroller (push chair to me!) and the baby's car seat being brought out to the aircraft for loading. The person bringing them disappeared beneath the aircraft immediately below where I was sat, presumably for stuffing into a hold. Dead simple.
Then we arrived at Heathrow to discover the push chair and baby car seat had failed to make it out of Frankfurt! A fair old bit of "Oh dear, we are so sorry" etc but no suggestions as to how I was going to hire a car to take the family home when the baby's car seat was hundreds of miles away in Frankfurt! It ended up with a taxi home and no compensation.
Well how about this:
My wife, my infant sprog and myself were on a BA flight from Frankfurt to Heathrow. I don't remember what the aircraft was, probably a 737. Whatever, I was sat next to the window and I looked out out of my window to see our stroller (push chair to me!) and the baby's car seat being brought out to the aircraft for loading. The person bringing them disappeared beneath the aircraft immediately below where I was sat, presumably for stuffing into a hold. Dead simple.
Then we arrived at Heathrow to discover the push chair and baby car seat had failed to make it out of Frankfurt! A fair old bit of "Oh dear, we are so sorry" etc but no suggestions as to how I was going to hire a car to take the family home when the baby's car seat was hundreds of miles away in Frankfurt! It ended up with a taxi home and no compensation.
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They can look to the difference between Munoz's initial inept handling of the last incident, versus Parker's immediate apology and suspension of the FA, and be reassured that they made a good choice.
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Here's American's published stroller policy:
https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/...g-children.jsp
Strollers
Each ticketed customer is allowed 1 stroller. Only small, collapsible and light strollers (up to 20lbs/9kgs) can be checked at the gate. Any stroller that weighs over 20lbs/9 kgs, is too large or is non−collapsible must be checked at the ticket counter.
Customers are allowed 1 stroller and 1 car seat per ticketed passenger. Both items may be checked at the ticket counter or one item can be checked at the gate and one at the counter. These items are checked at no charge, when traveling with a child or to adopt.
Each ticketed customer is allowed 1 stroller. Only small, collapsible and light strollers (up to 20lbs/9kgs) can be checked at the gate. Any stroller that weighs over 20lbs/9 kgs, is too large or is non−collapsible must be checked at the ticket counter.
Customers are allowed 1 stroller and 1 car seat per ticketed passenger. Both items may be checked at the ticket counter or one item can be checked at the gate and one at the counter. These items are checked at no charge, when traveling with a child or to adopt.
gauges and Dials
after the fact, day later, retribution doesn't interest me, it's the scenario that scares me especially where a passenger steps in to offer physical retribution.
They can look to the difference between Munoz's initial inept handling of the last incident, versus Parker's immediate apology and suspension of the FA, and be reassured that they made a good choice
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Again, a highly one sided video of part of a bigger event. Unless the full facts are released the only two comments I'm prepared to make to make are that I would have spoken to the passenger who wanted the name of those employee. I would have told him that these events are nothing to do with him, that is my job. If he disagreed with me, I would have left him behind. Secondly, the Gate Agent knew how to really inflame an already bad situation.
Unfortunately, too many people drag far too much stuff past the gate into an aircraft. They seem not to care that their luggage won't fit or that others may be inconvenienced by their selfishness. I'm rather lucky I have not had to deal with this too often but either the luggage is properly stowed or its owner will not be flying. Explaining this nicely is the challenging part of the job.
Unfortunately, too many people drag far too much stuff past the gate into an aircraft. They seem not to care that their luggage won't fit or that others may be inconvenienced by their selfishness. I'm rather lucky I have not had to deal with this too often but either the luggage is properly stowed or its owner will not be flying. Explaining this nicely is the challenging part of the job.
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In what sense is having witnessed what the passenger believes, with some justification, to be at the least abusive, and possibly felonious treatment of a fellow passenger to be "nothing to do with you?" Also, wouldn't that depend upon whether or not the airline's policy required customer-facing employees to identify themselves upon customer request?
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Is there any possible backstory under which the flight attendant ("Bring it on, hit me,") can possibly seen as anything other than an angry, thin-skinned little manchild who has no business being in a customer-facing job?
Other more professional responses to the passenger might have included a stone-cold, "duly noted, sir," an eye-roll, or simply pretending not to have heard the comment.
Other more professional responses to the passenger might have included a stone-cold, "duly noted, sir," an eye-roll, or simply pretending not to have heard the comment.
Discussion point as to whether fellow passengers should come to the aid of those less able to defend themselves against aggressive staff.
London Stansted. Gate agent shouts over the heads "Boarding. Have passport open at photo page, yeah". Elderly, aged 70-plus, arthritic hands old lady ahead of me shuffles up and hesitantly offers her documents. Young, fit (though pimply), 20-something agent snarls loudly "I said passport OPEN at the PHOTO PAGE". Old lady visibly upset.
Now I am right behind. Should I give him a piece of my mind about manners ? Or should we all just cower and let this go ?
London Stansted. Gate agent shouts over the heads "Boarding. Have passport open at photo page, yeah". Elderly, aged 70-plus, arthritic hands old lady ahead of me shuffles up and hesitantly offers her documents. Young, fit (though pimply), 20-something agent snarls loudly "I said passport OPEN at the PHOTO PAGE". Old lady visibly upset.
Now I am right behind. Should I give him a piece of my mind about manners ? Or should we all just cower and let this go ?
**British kids TV puppet character
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In what sense? The simple one. It is nothing to do with him. Yes, he is a witness, yes he can leave his name with the lady concerned, but very simply THIS IS NOT HIS BUSINESS. With regard to the pimply yoof at STN, the correct thing to do is either call the police to report an offence, complain to the airline or report this member of staff to their employer or all three. There may be other options, but again, you are not the police!
If you decide to get involved with somebody else's fight make sure that 1. You are totally in the right. 2. You are prepared to miss your flight. 3. You don't make it worse for the person you are trying to help. 4. You win. 5. Make sure the person really does wants your help.
Doing nothing when witnessing things like this is not an option, but make sure you do the right thing.
PM
If you decide to get involved with somebody else's fight make sure that 1. You are totally in the right. 2. You are prepared to miss your flight. 3. You don't make it worse for the person you are trying to help. 4. You win. 5. Make sure the person really does wants your help.
Doing nothing when witnessing things like this is not an option, but make sure you do the right thing.
PM
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It all sounds so terribly simple, doesn't it? Take the stroller and tell the passenger it will be there for her when she arrives at her destination.
Well how about this:
My wife, my infant sprog and myself were on a BA flight from Frankfurt to Heathrow. I don't remember what the aircraft was, probably a 737. Whatever, I was sat next to the window and I looked out out of my window to see our stroller (push chair to me!) and the baby's car seat being brought out to the aircraft for loading. The person bringing them disappeared beneath the aircraft immediately below where I was sat, presumably for stuffing into a hold. Dead simple.
Then we arrived at Heathrow to discover the push chair and baby car seat had failed to make it out of Frankfurt! A fair old bit of "Oh dear, we are so sorry" etc but no suggestions as to how I was going to hire a car to take the family home when the baby's car seat was hundreds of miles away in Frankfurt! It ended up with a taxi home and no compensation.
Well how about this:
My wife, my infant sprog and myself were on a BA flight from Frankfurt to Heathrow. I don't remember what the aircraft was, probably a 737. Whatever, I was sat next to the window and I looked out out of my window to see our stroller (push chair to me!) and the baby's car seat being brought out to the aircraft for loading. The person bringing them disappeared beneath the aircraft immediately below where I was sat, presumably for stuffing into a hold. Dead simple.
Then we arrived at Heathrow to discover the push chair and baby car seat had failed to make it out of Frankfurt! A fair old bit of "Oh dear, we are so sorry" etc but no suggestions as to how I was going to hire a car to take the family home when the baby's car seat was hundreds of miles away in Frankfurt! It ended up with a taxi home and no compensation.
If the airlines were required to pay a punitive fine to the pax if the airline lost or damaged an item entrusted to its baggage handlers, then less bags and items would be lost and damaged and less would be dragged on board by the pax.
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Unfortunately I think these kinds of incidents are going to become more commonplace; air travel continues to become a more unpleasant experience every day and it's the airline employees that face the brunt of it. Is it any wonder that they're losing their patience?
Other's mentioned that this lady would have been informed about her buggy at check-in. These days, many people don't even go to a check-in desk. Online check-in means that people turn up at the gate, without having seen an airline employee. The gate agent (often working alone), is expected to check boarding passes, look for oversized cabin baggage, check visa requirements and label mobility aids of 180 or so passengers, under the constant threat that they will be held accountable for any erosion of on-time performance.
While airlines continue to cut costs and staff, it's the frontline employees that feel the pressure. It's easy for us to say that this incident should have been dealt with differently, but the guy is human. Imagine dealing with this nonsense day in day out, week after week.
The travelling public have changed considerably in the last 10-20 years that I've been flying as a passenger. People are much more self entitled, less considerate and if they don't get their own way, they throw a tantrum or threaten legal action. People refuse to follow simple instructions, and think that because they have seen this, that or the other on the internet they are suddenly an expert.
Other's mentioned that this lady would have been informed about her buggy at check-in. These days, many people don't even go to a check-in desk. Online check-in means that people turn up at the gate, without having seen an airline employee. The gate agent (often working alone), is expected to check boarding passes, look for oversized cabin baggage, check visa requirements and label mobility aids of 180 or so passengers, under the constant threat that they will be held accountable for any erosion of on-time performance.
While airlines continue to cut costs and staff, it's the frontline employees that feel the pressure. It's easy for us to say that this incident should have been dealt with differently, but the guy is human. Imagine dealing with this nonsense day in day out, week after week.
The travelling public have changed considerably in the last 10-20 years that I've been flying as a passenger. People are much more self entitled, less considerate and if they don't get their own way, they throw a tantrum or threaten legal action. People refuse to follow simple instructions, and think that because they have seen this, that or the other on the internet they are suddenly an expert.
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Every time I travelled with a stroller & handed it over at the gate, I received the stroller at the other end at the gate. This was always clearly explained to me. Logical & a great move by airlines that ensure that one is not stuggling at airports with no stroller facilities. Naturally this was always outside America where it seems hospitality & manners still exisit.
After trying to control an excited 2 year old for 2.5 hours in a large and open terminal I was well cheesed off. Boarding was proceeded with her making another break for freedom, and my grab just missing a proper hold, but enough for her to fall over and hit her head.
I don't really understand what was going on with this video - however what is clear is that there was a lack of empathy.
ETA - just read the summary. A stressed out mother, with two young kids. I think this could have been calmed well with empathy. Make sure she get's the help she needs at the other end if she will have no pushchairs etc. Sympathise etc.
I used to deal with difficult customers over the phone many years ago. By listening and showing empathy, you could always bring things down a level. Understand the problem and look for the soloution that keep everyone happy. The travel industry has got to 'stringent' in my view and staff are too used to being able to tell passengers what to do, without understanding that you sometimes need to use more people skills to deescalate minor situations.
I wonder how many memos had been floating around about preventing any delay. I wonder in contrast how many there had been about presenting a pleasant and professional attitude to the customers at all times.
Part of it is that there are numerous situations which, although they repeat constantly for staff, can be one-offs for the passenger. This traveller will not have been travelling with twin babies all their life, and it may well have been their first flying experience with them.
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Unfortunately, too many people drag far too much stuff past the gate into an aircraft.
Was the passenger wrong? Or the cabin crew? Or the ground crew?.
It wasn't an American airline, so nobody beat the living **** out of the passenger/customer. Not a white one, anyway.
They don't do that in a Murrica, y'know.
Last edited by Cazalet33; 24th Apr 2017 at 17:27.
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For everyone who thinks that the solution to these on-board instances is for GAs to better police regulations, the difficulty is this. Each layer in this customer service chain typically either wants to be the "good guy," or doesn't want to deal with problems. Therefore, rather than the GA refusing to allow the stroller down the jetway (as might be policy), they say something like, I don't think there is space on the aircraft for that, but you can go on board, take a look and gate-check it if there is none. By doing, that, they force the FA's to play the "bad guy," and avoid having to deal with the difficulty and conflict themselves.
Note, too, I have seen GAs give pax gate-check tags for oversize bags or strollers, and allow the pax to carry them down the jetway with the admonition that the pax should leave them at the end of the jetway to be collected for hold stowage. And I have seen many pax ignore this admonition and carry the bag that was supposed to be gate-checked onto the aircraft in hopes that they will be able to find adequate space.
Note, too, I have seen GAs give pax gate-check tags for oversize bags or strollers, and allow the pax to carry them down the jetway with the admonition that the pax should leave them at the end of the jetway to be collected for hold stowage. And I have seen many pax ignore this admonition and carry the bag that was supposed to be gate-checked onto the aircraft in hopes that they will be able to find adequate space.