Why reschedule a flight by 10 minutes?
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Why reschedule a flight by 10 minutes?
[New poster; I hope this question/grumble is in the right place/ok to post here.]
Why would an airline (in this case BA) reschedule a flight by just 10 minutes? Of course as SLF I wouldn't care, except that we were booked with a 1hr35 minute connection at Heathrow that changed to 1hr25, so BA's computer rebooked us for a completely different time of day, and customer services were very friendly but say they can't get us back on the originally booked flights, as their computer system won't allow it.
I'd understand it if there was an operational reason for a significant change in the timetable (though it would still be annoying), but it seems ridiculous for 10 minutes. If the slot time has changed (or something - I have no idea what the reason might be, which is why I'm asking), why not just change their own internal schedule but leave all bookings valid?
Why would an airline (in this case BA) reschedule a flight by just 10 minutes? Of course as SLF I wouldn't care, except that we were booked with a 1hr35 minute connection at Heathrow that changed to 1hr25, so BA's computer rebooked us for a completely different time of day, and customer services were very friendly but say they can't get us back on the originally booked flights, as their computer system won't allow it.
I'd understand it if there was an operational reason for a significant change in the timetable (though it would still be annoying), but it seems ridiculous for 10 minutes. If the slot time has changed (or something - I have no idea what the reason might be, which is why I'm asking), why not just change their own internal schedule but leave all bookings valid?
A whole bunch of reasons, seasonal wind, fuel burn, other flights leaving or arriving at same time causing takeoff or landing delays etc.etc.
Typically because they were off that much on a day to day basis causing havoc with travelers trying to keep to that time. Now it's more "legal" and your connection is not.
It saves the aggravation in the long run.
Typically because they were off that much on a day to day basis causing havoc with travelers trying to keep to that time. Now it's more "legal" and your connection is not.
It saves the aggravation in the long run.
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Thanks! I can see the sense in that.
I'm still not quite clear why they can't offer already-booked passengers the choice though - on the basis "when we agreed this booking with you, we thought the connection would most likely be ok (though of course never certain); now we think the risk is bigger than we thought. Do you want to keep the booking or change to something else?" Maybe just too complicated for the booking system, I suppose.
I'm still not quite clear why they can't offer already-booked passengers the choice though - on the basis "when we agreed this booking with you, we thought the connection would most likely be ok (though of course never certain); now we think the risk is bigger than we thought. Do you want to keep the booking or change to something else?" Maybe just too complicated for the booking system, I suppose.
What lomopaseo said, i.e.
The change in the first sector has taken you below minimum connecting time for the second. If you're allowed to stick with your planned second sector then there's a very significant risk of that flight departing with empty seats (which could perhaps have been sold to other passengers, so it's something the revenue folks hate) and then there's the aggravation of trying to rebook you onto a later flight at relatively short notice(which may be full on the day).
OTOH if on the day your first flight arrives early then there's no harm in asking Flight Connections if you can switch to the early flight...that's certainly how I would play it.
It saves the aggravation in the long run.
OTOH if on the day your first flight arrives early then there's no harm in asking Flight Connections if you can switch to the early flight...that's certainly how I would play it.
Last edited by wiggy; 20th Oct 2015 at 08:39.
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Airlines set their MCT (Minimum Connecting Times) for their connections* at airports they serve. These times are shared with all other airlines, put into systems which cannot be overridden by the average agent.
The costs to airlines for misconnects of passengers and of baggage can be significant and it is a major inconvenience for the customers. If they don't think they can make the connection, experience has shown them it's much better to rebook the customer onto other flights.
*connections meaning:
connecting flights on same airline/same terminal;
connecting flights on same airline/different terminal(s)
connecting flights to/from select airlines/same terminal
connecting flights to/from select airlines/different terminal(s)
connecting flights to/from all other airlines/same terminal
connecting flights to/from all other airlines/different terminal(s)
In the old days when the MCTs were published in the monthly airline guides some airports information were published over multiple (four column) pages.
It can be irritating when a small change in time affects a connection and you will find that (most) airlines will not insist you take it or leave it. If you call them you should be given other routing options or a full refund.
Other airlines are not so flexible, for example this is a message I got from U2 recently (translated from French):
I take this to mean they will not waive their rebooking fee - which is not on when they are changing a key contract term without my agreement.
The costs to airlines for misconnects of passengers and of baggage can be significant and it is a major inconvenience for the customers. If they don't think they can make the connection, experience has shown them it's much better to rebook the customer onto other flights.
*connections meaning:
connecting flights on same airline/same terminal;
connecting flights on same airline/different terminal(s)
connecting flights to/from select airlines/same terminal
connecting flights to/from select airlines/different terminal(s)
connecting flights to/from all other airlines/same terminal
connecting flights to/from all other airlines/different terminal(s)
In the old days when the MCTs were published in the monthly airline guides some airports information were published over multiple (four column) pages.
It can be irritating when a small change in time affects a connection and you will find that (most) airlines will not insist you take it or leave it. If you call them you should be given other routing options or a full refund.
Other airlines are not so flexible, for example this is a message I got from U2 recently (translated from French):
If these hours do not suit you, you have the opportunity to rebook on our website Réservez des vols pas chers vers toute Europe | easyJet in "Manage my bookings". EasyJet standard conditions will apply in the context of this change, the General Conditions which can be viewed on our website.
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ExXB. Wow. You either fly U2 a lot and have been unlucky a lot or really have it in for them. Whether it's their safety demo, lost baggage, legroom, singling them out out for not offering tax free bars on GVA runs (despite no other airline doing this), asking you not to use mobiles walking from aircraft to terminal, passengers boarding the wrong aircraft and now rebooking. You have a story to tell which in every case paint them in a bad light. No matter what the topic, you have a U2 story about it. Troll much? You know FlyerTalk is a great place for people with vandettas about specific carriers.
Please do provide some context to your story in this instance.
Please do provide some context to your story in this instance.
Last edited by HeartyMeatballs; 20th Oct 2015 at 09:09.
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Yes I do fly U2 quite a bit. In this case the sked change didn't matter to me. But if the change was unacceptable, I would have thought something other than "U2 standard conditions apply".
Why? They sold me a flight partially based on their (estimated) time of departure/arrival. I didn't chose one later in the day, or earlier in the morning, or on another day. If they wanted to change, fine, I'll think about it. But don't ask me to pay a change surcharge to make a change I don't want. If the price is higher on the new flights, their standard conditions state I pay it.
I'm sorry if you think I'm trolling, I don't think I am. I am relating my valid concerns that I have with U2 (and others I have flown).
Lost baggage? Legroom? I don't recall these, I am quite happy with U2's baggage performance and I do like their non-recline seats. Ripping me off for UK VAT flights, yes I know they are not the only one. All the LCCs seem to do that. But that doesn't make it OK, does it? I recall when "duty free" shops got caught doing exactly the same thing there was an uproar. Well I'm just expressing the same uproar that the airlines are doing the same.
I do use U2, and are generally quite happy with their service. But I think they could do better. Perhaps I am just
, but how else can they learn?
Why? They sold me a flight partially based on their (estimated) time of departure/arrival. I didn't chose one later in the day, or earlier in the morning, or on another day. If they wanted to change, fine, I'll think about it. But don't ask me to pay a change surcharge to make a change I don't want. If the price is higher on the new flights, their standard conditions state I pay it.
I'm sorry if you think I'm trolling, I don't think I am. I am relating my valid concerns that I have with U2 (and others I have flown).
Lost baggage? Legroom? I don't recall these, I am quite happy with U2's baggage performance and I do like their non-recline seats. Ripping me off for UK VAT flights, yes I know they are not the only one. All the LCCs seem to do that. But that doesn't make it OK, does it? I recall when "duty free" shops got caught doing exactly the same thing there was an uproar. Well I'm just expressing the same uproar that the airlines are doing the same.
I do use U2, and are generally quite happy with their service. But I think they could do better. Perhaps I am just
, but how else can they learn?
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Yes, your contact referring to them as 'squeezy' can only be relating to legroom. You mentioned in another post you left property on a flight only for it to never been seen again. My apologies, I got that one slightly wrong.
I'm sure it was established that the onboard products in the bars are not easy' s to sell. The contents belong to the caterer. The money goes to the caterer. Pricing logic should surely be with the caterer and not the airline. The airline can't take off the VAT as its not the airline that is charging the VAT. The POS devices do not belong to the airline, receipts are made out by the caterer and not the airline. Therefore it's the catering companies who supply the airlines and not the airlines them selves who are ripping off
I'm sure it was established that the onboard products in the bars are not easy' s to sell. The contents belong to the caterer. The money goes to the caterer. Pricing logic should surely be with the caterer and not the airline. The airline can't take off the VAT as its not the airline that is charging the VAT. The POS devices do not belong to the airline, receipts are made out by the caterer and not the airline. Therefore it's the catering companies who supply the airlines and not the airlines them selves who are ripping off
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I guess many of us use particular airlines more often than others. Consequently the majority of our good, bad or indifferent experiences are more likely to feature that particular airline. My two more regular carriers are KLM and Eurowings (when formerly operating for Lufthansa and Germanwings). Consequently most of my personal "experiences" are more likely to feature these two airlines.
I'm still not quite clear why they can't offer already-booked passengers the choice though - on the basis "when we agreed this booking with you, we thought the connection would most likely be ok (though of course never certain); now we think the risk is bigger than we thought. Do you want to keep the booking or change to something else?" Maybe just too complicated for the booking system, I suppose.
Each time I discovered this by surfing periodically into their web site and saw my reservation has been flagged as changed (not a problem as they would have eventually notified me days before the flight)
Each time I researched their schedules for something better (same day, different routings to same destinations) so when I called them I was prepared to suggest a better alternative for me.
Of course I try to avoid getting a refusal on their part by asking for something way beyond what I paid for in the first reservation.
If you want something than politely ask for it now that they owe you a return favor and have to re-do your reservation process anyhow.
Yes - this happens to us. My wife was able to get far more expensive flights at far better times for no additional cost when the original flight was cancelled. The airline originally offered an unacceptable six hour layover, but this was reduced after a brief conversation to three hours and an earlier arrival than originally planned.....Happy days
Some years ago, while working for a GDS, we got an irate call from an agent. He had booked passengers from the UK to somewhere in the US. Some friends had then tried to book the same flights only to discover the connecting flight within the USA didn't exist but another one was a few minutes later.
A bit of digging with the US based airline turned up the fact that if the change of flight was less than 10 minutes they didn't bother to tell anyone even though the flight number had changed.
A bit of digging with the US based airline turned up the fact that if the change of flight was less than 10 minutes they didn't bother to tell anyone even though the flight number had changed.
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Sometimes Travel Agents mess about with the Minimum Connection Times as well. Normally the system would consider anything under 2 hours for terminal to terminal transfers as un-achievable at Heathrow. AFAIK 1 hr 30 is the MCT for T5-T5 transfers with BA.
If you book directly, normally, the BA system will not allow MCT's below this, there are exceptions to this rule though.
What some travel agents do, upon the wishes of their customers, is book two separate flights within the system with smaller MCT's, as the booking system doesn't see them initially as connecting flights, and then combine the two flights into a single, connecting flight. This effectively circumvents the MCT system, gives the customer 'initially' what they want and then leaves the customer running through terminals, security and immigration trying to chase a tight connection.
As for re-scheduling 10 minutes, it often happens as flight data is updated and route times are re-calculated based upon historical averages.
If you book directly, normally, the BA system will not allow MCT's below this, there are exceptions to this rule though.
What some travel agents do, upon the wishes of their customers, is book two separate flights within the system with smaller MCT's, as the booking system doesn't see them initially as connecting flights, and then combine the two flights into a single, connecting flight. This effectively circumvents the MCT system, gives the customer 'initially' what they want and then leaves the customer running through terminals, security and immigration trying to chase a tight connection.
As for re-scheduling 10 minutes, it often happens as flight data is updated and route times are re-calculated based upon historical averages.
