BASSA Branch Secretary ET Minutes Now in Public Domain
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I know this thread has been permitted to continue by the moderator, however, by definition "SLF" means that many of the readers and contributors to this part of PPrune are in fact BA CUSTOMERS ! Why on earth do you think it's a good idea to continue your tedious discussion on an internal industrial dispute in what is in many respects a passenger forum?
P.S. I have no connection with BA or any airline, other than to pay loads of money to fly around the World far more frequently than I would chose if it wasn't my livelihood.
P.S. I have no connection with BA or any airline, other than to pay loads of money to fly around the World far more frequently than I would chose if it wasn't my livelihood.
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DeepDene
I understand your point about you personally not being involved and therefore avoid showing any interest. This is primarily an airline staff forum upon which it is natural to discuss such matters. There are other passenger focused forums which it can be said ignore most personnell issues. The fact of the matter is that many ARE interested in natural justice and having it seen to be done.
On a related matter, I welcome the involvement of GMB in CC representation as it is my hope that a more measured approach will ensure a stable timetable can be adhered to in the future. This will benefit all, passengers and staff included.
On a related matter, I welcome the involvement of GMB in CC representation as it is my hope that a more measured approach will ensure a stable timetable can be adhered to in the future. This will benefit all, passengers and staff included.
Last edited by Dawdler; 30th Mar 2012 at 14:50. Reason: grammar!
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I understand your point about you personally not being involved and therefore avoid showing any interest. This is primarily an airline staff forum upon which it is natural to discuss such matters. There are other passenger focused forums which it can be said ignore most personnell issues. The fact of the matter is that many ARE interested in natural justice and having it seen to be done.
On a related matter, I welcome the involvement of GMB in CC representation as it is my hope that a more measured approach will ensure a stable timetable can be adhered to in the future. This will benefit all, passengers and staff included.
On a related matter, I welcome the involvement of GMB in CC representation as it is my hope that a more measured approach will ensure a stable timetable can be adhered to in the future. This will benefit all, passengers and staff included.
Last edited by ExXB; 30th Mar 2012 at 17:54.
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Perhaps I didn't explain myself too clearly. I was referring to PPRuNe when I said this was primarily an airline staff forum.
That said I understand that some people are not interested in anything that does not directly (now) affect them. Others take a wider view.
That said I understand that some people are not interested in anything that does not directly (now) affect them. Others take a wider view.
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Gone but not forgotten
Just to let everyone know, and to finally put this saga to bed once and for all, Bassa have announced the nominations for the forthcoming elections and thank goodness the current branch secretary is in fact stepping down in July. Hurrah! However, the current chair, who as many of us know resides in Los Angeles? is staying on. There were no other nominees for the chair position. So will there be any changes in the future? By the names who have put themselves forward, I sincerely doubt it. However Bassa has announced several new jobs/positions from July. This include a chief of staff, an industrial director, a deputy industrial director, a principal health and safety officer and an equalities officer. These were jobs/positions that never existed before, and have been filled unapposed by current reps. I really don't know what to say except 🇨🇳!!
It seems the current BS, who as we know was correctly sacked in May 2010 for his (in) actions the previous Xmas, was rewarded in the latest 'deal' done by Unite and BA, by being given compensation to the tune of many 1000's of pounds. Nobody knows the full details, but it was in Len McCluskey's words ' substantial'
To any of us that are maybe an IAG shareholder and/or an employee or pensioner of the airline , I'm sure like me they are totally disgusted to find this is where part of their money has gone. But thats politics for you.
Finally despite many many requests over the years, nobody, members or not, managed to see the infamous accounts that this BS kept to himself. £2 million/year is an awful lot of money to account for. Oh well let's really hope the next BS is a little more open. It surely can't be worse.
It seems the current BS, who as we know was correctly sacked in May 2010 for his (in) actions the previous Xmas, was rewarded in the latest 'deal' done by Unite and BA, by being given compensation to the tune of many 1000's of pounds. Nobody knows the full details, but it was in Len McCluskey's words ' substantial'
To any of us that are maybe an IAG shareholder and/or an employee or pensioner of the airline , I'm sure like me they are totally disgusted to find this is where part of their money has gone. But thats politics for you.
Finally despite many many requests over the years, nobody, members or not, managed to see the infamous accounts that this BS kept to himself. £2 million/year is an awful lot of money to account for. Oh well let's really hope the next BS is a little more open. It surely can't be worse.
Last edited by thameslinkboy; 11th May 2012 at 22:16.
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And now it seems Manish Patel has won his point and settled out of court against BASSA's leadership and Duncan Holley:
Legal action versus Unite the Union & others: Patel v Unite settled
Splendid news for Captain Patel.
Legal action versus Unite the Union & others: Patel v Unite settled
Splendid news for Captain Patel.
Last edited by TightSlot; 12th Aug 2012 at 14:30.
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what a shame...
.. that this settled out of court.
in fairness, the vast majority of such actions do settle but it does mean that we, the public, are prevented from seeing the final, gory details.
there was a clear incentive to the union to settle, possibly with pressure from individual members as, had the forensic computer expert been successful in recovering data (how far had she got?), the sins of individual members would reflect badly on the union for hosting the comments. this would have been particularly so if the 'sinful' members were influential within the union.- quite apart from the prospect of individual civil damages actions and disciplinary actions against them. (is there a lawyer out there who can tell us whether a judge, as part of his judgement, could say/suggest that someone was not fit to hold union office?)
on the other side i suspect, capt patel's lawyers would reach the point where what was on offer was too good to refuse. they would tell him 'it ain't going to get any better than this - go on and you might get awarded less!' and, his reputation remains untarnished.
anyway, this brings down the curtain i suspect. someone, somewhere could be writing a sequel.
in fairness, the vast majority of such actions do settle but it does mean that we, the public, are prevented from seeing the final, gory details.
there was a clear incentive to the union to settle, possibly with pressure from individual members as, had the forensic computer expert been successful in recovering data (how far had she got?), the sins of individual members would reflect badly on the union for hosting the comments. this would have been particularly so if the 'sinful' members were influential within the union.- quite apart from the prospect of individual civil damages actions and disciplinary actions against them. (is there a lawyer out there who can tell us whether a judge, as part of his judgement, could say/suggest that someone was not fit to hold union office?)
on the other side i suspect, capt patel's lawyers would reach the point where what was on offer was too good to refuse. they would tell him 'it ain't going to get any better than this - go on and you might get awarded less!' and, his reputation remains untarnished.
anyway, this brings down the curtain i suspect. someone, somewhere could be writing a sequel.
I suspect that there has to be a sequel. Whilst BA won in a strategic sense given that they now have MF established on a solid basis, in a tactical sense some of the dinosaurs are still too difficult for BA managers to manage. They have to be seen to go the way of the dinosaurs.
And, is anyone convinced that BA managers are any better at managing? That was what got them in to this mess in the first place......
And, is anyone convinced that BA managers are any better at managing? That was what got them in to this mess in the first place......
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There won't be a sequel.
Soundings are that relations between BASSA and BA management are getting much better. Some may not have adjusted to the shift in the balance of power (which is already yielding benefits to passengers) and there are pockets of hostility to Mixed Fleet but there will always be a minority wanting to cause trouble (caused by a structural dependency on the company for career long earnings, not management) and the ability to point a gun at the company's head has gone forever.
Crew do also speak highly of Frank van Der Post and Keith "good cop" Williams.
The industrial dispute fundamentally broke the historical template of unions being able to point a gun at the company's head and it capitulating at the last minute with promises to all get along on the future. Any union rep that didn't heed the hard lessons from the dispute would be doing their members a grave disservice.
Soundings are that relations between BASSA and BA management are getting much better. Some may not have adjusted to the shift in the balance of power (which is already yielding benefits to passengers) and there are pockets of hostility to Mixed Fleet but there will always be a minority wanting to cause trouble (caused by a structural dependency on the company for career long earnings, not management) and the ability to point a gun at the company's head has gone forever.
Crew do also speak highly of Frank van Der Post and Keith "good cop" Williams.
The industrial dispute fundamentally broke the historical template of unions being able to point a gun at the company's head and it capitulating at the last minute with promises to all get along on the future. Any union rep that didn't heed the hard lessons from the dispute would be doing their members a grave disservice.
Whilst I agree that some of the dinosaurs are dependent on their relatively high salaries, I disagree about management.
Any management team gets the TUs that it deserves. BA managers got bassa. That was NOT bassa's fault - it was the fault of extremely weak management.
But this is boring, so I'll shut up now.
Any management team gets the TUs that it deserves. BA managers got bassa. That was NOT bassa's fault - it was the fault of extremely weak management.
But this is boring, so I'll shut up now.
A.O.
To some it may be boring, but not to me, and IMHO you are not wrong - I agree with many of the points you've raised.
OmniP.
Soundings? What soundings? My soundings (i.e. downroute conversations/fly on that wall) have led me to a less optimistic conclusion. FdP and others may be happy that BASSA's overt demands to management aren't quite as silly as they used to be and yes, in many areas their powers seem to have been diminished, but there are signs that BASSA are yet again starting to investigate the limits of acceptable behaviour and there's now increasing evidence that some have started to use BA's own disciplinary mechanisms to hamstrung members of the other main employee group they interact with.......(does the terms "S.A.S." ring a bell?)
Until the moderate's gain control of the union this isn't over, it will just move underground.
To some it may be boring, but not to me, and IMHO you are not wrong - I agree with many of the points you've raised.
OmniP.
Soundings are that relations between BASSA and BA management are getting much better.
There won't be a sequel.
Last edited by wiggy; 14th Aug 2012 at 20:58.
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Perhaps I didn't explain myself too clearly.
I was referring to PPRuNe when I said this was primarily an airline staff forum.
That said I understand that some people are not interested in anything that does not directly (now) affect them.
Others take a wider view.
We "SLF", as I understand you so disparagingly refer to your bread and butter, are thoroughly sick and tired of BA cabin crew shenanigans. Kindly wash your dirty linen elsewhere, please.
Last edited by Chuchinchow; 2nd Sep 2012 at 00:05.
