do i need to worry about landing at samos airport
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do i need to worry about landing at samos airport
i have flown in to samos airport twice in the past 6 weeks, on each occasion the landings where aborted, the first time the pilot made 2 attempts to land, conditions a biy windy but a beautiful sunny day, the second occasion it was a flight with company Tor Air from gatwick airport in england, it was a very old 737, we were delayed for 11hours whilst a new battery was fitted, we eventually took off at17 50 hours, the cabin crew imformed us that the closing time for samos airport was 21 00hours but they were staying open to welcome us, upto this point the pilot hadnt given us any imformation about the journey, how long it would take us etc, the flight was a comfortable one,nice meal, free drinks offered to us because of the delay, the seat belt sign is illuminated, there is a grunt from the front of the plane, we are imformed by the cabin crew we are about to land, down down down we go tossing and turning, i had already briefed the passengers around me about my previous experience, then the roar of the engines tells me that we are about to go up up up, the lady next to me was clinging onto my arm as if her life depended on it, sounding mr out for reassurance that everything was ok and were we heading for Rhodes airport, because we had kept a fairly sraight path i told probably yes which was then comfirmed by the cabin crew, not the pilot who we later found out couldnt speak a word of english, in the ladys eyes next to me i was her hero . the reason i am telling you this tale is that i went back to samos to see if i could rent a property there as i fell in love with the island, but because of my experiences they are trying to make me change my mind and find a property somewhere else. i am hoping that somebody out there can reassure them that samos airport is a safe place to fly into.
Join Date: Mar 2001
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In my company samos is put into the "C" category meaning it is a difficult airport. It is commanders landing only and they have to do a training flight first before they allowed there with a normal crew composition. Additionally the company decided that night operation is not allowed and no A321 and A330 may be dispatched there, only smaller aircraft like boeing 737 and A319/A320. All in all kinda demanding which can explain a much higher than normal missed approach rate.
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Swivelhips, I think you need to separate out the difference between the airport, which does have a short runway, and the airline, which appears to be responsible for most of the problems you allege.
However, English is the language of international aviation, all pilots must speak it.
However, English is the language of international aviation, all pilots must speak it.
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Agreed jabird, I haven't heard anything about Thomson, Thomas Cook, Monarch having the same series of problems and they face the same runway and surroundings as Tor Air do on arrival!
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this will give you an idea of how it should look on a windless day http://
The Meltemi winds pick up mid afternoon so any arrival after about 1500L is likely to be affected. I have sat at Pythagorion and watched an unnamed German 757 operator have two attempts at 09 followed by a g/a on 27 followed by a landing.
I think the problems you mention with Tor Air were probably exacerbated by the communication (lack of) from the F/D. There isnt much choice of carrier to SMI, but there is a choice.
The Meltemi winds pick up mid afternoon so any arrival after about 1500L is likely to be affected. I have sat at Pythagorion and watched an unnamed German 757 operator have two attempts at 09 followed by a g/a on 27 followed by a landing.
I think the problems you mention with Tor Air were probably exacerbated by the communication (lack of) from the F/D. There isnt much choice of carrier to SMI, but there is a choice.
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I wouldnt let the flight put you off this wonderful island. The lack of operators is what adds to it's charm- no high rise hotel blocks or mass. Tourism like some other islands in Europe.
Landing at Samos is perfectly safe I've flow countless times to Samos and I'm still here. I wouldn't worry.
Landing at Samos is perfectly safe I've flow countless times to Samos and I'm still here. I wouldn't worry.
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Swilvelhips... Best to sit quietly rather than "brief" everyone around you because you honestly don't know what's happening. The pilot must have spoken sufficient English for aviation purposes.
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Swivelhips: please learn to use the full stop at the end of a sentence. A comma does not serve the same purpose as a full stop. And start a new sentence with a capital letter. I had to read your post about three times. It really does make life easier. 
And as Load Toad says, I dare say your pilot's written English is better than yours.
And as Load Toad says, I dare say your pilot's written English is better than yours.
I'm not going to make judgement too much as I weren't there. It's always nice to hear from the flightdeck in such situations but communicating is always at the bottom of the priority list. That is ultimately the safest way of doing things. Work load must have been high in the flightdeck. As cabin crew, the crew in the cabin could/should communicate very well with the passengers. It doesn't always need a detailed response as to the in's and outs to reassure passengers and if there was any 'real' problem it will have been communicated to them from the pilots. As part of the crew, a PA from the cabin crew would be perfectly reasonable even if a flightdeck PA is more desirable.
The pilots will have been able to speak English without a doubt. English language is a must as it's the international language for aviation. Also, especially if the cabin crew are British (not sure with Tor Air) then the ability to speak English will have been a must otherwise CRM (Crew Resource Management) would be straight out of the window.
And finally, I mean this in the nicest possible way, don't start "briefing" passengers. It can only spread unnecessary panic in the cabin at worst and misinformation at best. And ultimately, it could lead to you looking stupid if you got things wrong.
The pilots will have been able to speak English without a doubt. English language is a must as it's the international language for aviation. Also, especially if the cabin crew are British (not sure with Tor Air) then the ability to speak English will have been a must otherwise CRM (Crew Resource Management) would be straight out of the window.
And finally, I mean this in the nicest possible way, don't start "briefing" passengers. It can only spread unnecessary panic in the cabin at worst and misinformation at best. And ultimately, it could lead to you looking stupid if you got things wrong.
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As a passenger on the same flight I can vouch for the fact that the whole thing was extremely scary so one or two of these replies seem to me to be just a little patronising: grammar is hardly the issue here.
Maybe I could provide further information and ask another question of any airline pilots who might be able to help. We came in to land at approximately 23:30 with very strong winds from the north. (I have been unable so far to establish the actual strength.) I discoverd afterwards that we came in from the east so that when the pilot aborted we were heading west directly towards the surrounding hills. I assume it was this that required the pilot to go into a very steep ascent and bank sharply to the left at the same time. I should like to know, therefore, how often do aircraft actually land from the east and take off to the west in very strong northerly winds? And is there a recommended maximum wind speed?
Maybe I could provide further information and ask another question of any airline pilots who might be able to help. We came in to land at approximately 23:30 with very strong winds from the north. (I have been unable so far to establish the actual strength.) I discoverd afterwards that we came in from the east so that when the pilot aborted we were heading west directly towards the surrounding hills. I assume it was this that required the pilot to go into a very steep ascent and bank sharply to the left at the same time. I should like to know, therefore, how often do aircraft actually land from the east and take off to the west in very strong northerly winds? And is there a recommended maximum wind speed?
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It appears that you have been flown by pilots who prefer to throw away a landing rather than possibly accept one from an unacceptable approach. It says a lot about their attitude to flying. As for a go-around, you apply all the power you have and then follow the appropriate procedure. For Samos, it appears that that a go-around would be followed by a turn to the south as soon as practical, remaining visual with terrain. I also notice the following advice on an approach plate. It is self explanatory.
As for a surface wind limit, that depends on the operators, their pilots, the status of the aircraft, the characteristics of the runway and so forth. Typically I'd expect something like 30-35 kts crosswind, up to 10 kts tailwind (but probably less than 5 kts with a runway of this length) but no overall wind limit. However, I reckon that a stiff wind from the North, but within landing crosswind limits, may make an approach so unstable that a landing may not even be attempted.
PM
CAUTION: Moderate or severe turbulence may occur on final when North winds of 20-25 KT prevail.
PM
I have flown there either in turboprop or -once on an A319 about once a year since 2007. Most landings are from the west.
I am told it is tricky airport but this does not make it a dangerous one. On landings from the East there is procedure that is used by the Greek pilots and works quite well.
Going to an alternate; I have never seen it as a problem.
Rwy in Sight
I am told it is tricky airport but this does not make it a dangerous one. On landings from the East there is procedure that is used by the Greek pilots and works quite well.
Going to an alternate; I have never seen it as a problem.
Rwy in Sight
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"pax dubbed "hero" after briefing others they are heading to alternate airport after a non English speaking pilot, who tossed and turned the a/c on approach, aborted the landing at Samos"
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Communicating to pax
I was also a passenger on this flight. All I can say is - the pilot didn't speak to my knowledge during or after the incident so I can't comment on his use of English.
The cabin crew were urgently (ie running) ensuring all seats were upright and armrests down before belting themselves in at the mid emergency exit. The steward addressed the aircraft from the aisle, telling us to remain calm and this was normal for Samos - he did not go to the rear to use the PA.
The cabin crew were urgently (ie running) ensuring all seats were upright and armrests down before belting themselves in at the mid emergency exit. The steward addressed the aircraft from the aisle, telling us to remain calm and this was normal for Samos - he did not go to the rear to use the PA.
I was also a passenger on this flight. All I can say is - the pilot didn't speak to my knowledge during or after the incident so I can't comment on his use of English.
The cabin crew were urgently (ie running) ensuring all seats were upright and armrests down before belting themselves in at the mid emergency exit. The steward addressed the aircraft from the aisle, telling us to remain calm and this was normal for Samos - he did not go to the rear to use the PA.
The cabin crew were urgently (ie running) ensuring all seats were upright and armrests down before belting themselves in at the mid emergency exit. The steward addressed the aircraft from the aisle, telling us to remain calm and this was normal for Samos - he did not go to the rear to use the PA.
But after a go around why would crew by ensuring armrests down etc etc when this would have been done before final approach? That just doesn't make sense.
Incidentally on Chinese airlines the flight deck never make announcements - the cabin crew only do it.
It's kind of disconcerting at first but I guess the attitude is 'Their job is to fly the 'plane chat to the passengers'.
It's kind of disconcerting at first but I guess the attitude is 'Their job is to fly the 'plane chat to the passengers'.
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Night flying into Samos
As a flyer on the flight in question I am surprised that many of your correspondents do not acknowledge that the pilot was trying to land several hours after the airport normally shuts down, since, as I understand it, Samos has no facilities for night landing