Brace Position
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Brace Position
There was a discussion on the practicalities of the brace position for tall people a while back.
On my last few trips with EZY up to Glasgow I considered the space available to the seat back and concluded that perhaps in an emergency I might just about do it.
Just been speaking to aged relatives back from Madeira who fly Thompson. Asked them if EZY did it and they said yes, they used them once but wouldn't do so again. The reason, surprisingly, was that neither of them (a 6 footer and a petite woman) thought they could do the brace position owing to the seat pitch. Not the scramble for seats or service level, but the brace position. Surprising what people worry about perhaps but an interesting one.
Perhaps on my next trip one of the CC can sit in my seat and show me
On my last few trips with EZY up to Glasgow I considered the space available to the seat back and concluded that perhaps in an emergency I might just about do it.
Just been speaking to aged relatives back from Madeira who fly Thompson. Asked them if EZY did it and they said yes, they used them once but wouldn't do so again. The reason, surprisingly, was that neither of them (a 6 footer and a petite woman) thought they could do the brace position owing to the seat pitch. Not the scramble for seats or service level, but the brace position. Surprising what people worry about perhaps but an interesting one.
Perhaps on my next trip one of the CC can sit in my seat and show me
Isn't it the same theory about a falling [out of control] lift. If you jump up and down, with luck you will be jumping UP when the lift hits the ground, and - Hey Presto - you will be able to walk away with not a single broken bone!!
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Isn't it the same theory about a falling [out of control] lift. If you jump up and down, with luck you will be jumping UP when the lift hits the ground, and - Hey Presto - you will be able to walk away with not a single broken bone!!
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Richair
Why don't airlines try the Crabair (Royal Air Force Transport Command as it use to be known) system and put all the seats except the aircrew's facing backwards? Many plus points here. Most crashes seem to have the kite going roughly forwards; no need to learn or even know of a 'brace' position; no whiplash; no real need to announce the emergency, as the first thing to happen on "brace - brace" is that a cloud of prayer rises to the heavens, and passengers get in a muddle about what they were told about braces. Just a thought.
If the Brace Position procedure is part of the validated emergency SOPs, you would expect the CAA to ensure that what is documented on the safety card and given out in the safety briefing is actually capable of being achieved, with a practical demonstration using people of representative height and girth, like the aircraft evacuation test.
Richair, the RAF "backwards" bit seems to date from a "Good Idea At The Time", long ago. Boeing more recently did a much more sophisticated examination of survivability with the seats in either direction, and found that forward facing was better, because a significant number of serious injuries are actually caused by debris of all sorts (baggage, galley equipment, other unrestrained pax, etc) flying forward up the cabin in a sharp deceleration, which forward facing seats give much more protection from than rearward.
Richair, the RAF "backwards" bit seems to date from a "Good Idea At The Time", long ago. Boeing more recently did a much more sophisticated examination of survivability with the seats in either direction, and found that forward facing was better, because a significant number of serious injuries are actually caused by debris of all sorts (baggage, galley equipment, other unrestrained pax, etc) flying forward up the cabin in a sharp deceleration, which forward facing seats give much more protection from than rearward.
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Brace Position
There was a discussion on the practicalities of the brace position for tall people a while back............
Perhaps on my next trip one of the CC can sit in my seat and show me
Why would you need the CC to do that Mr Optimistic
The EZY brace position is very clearly shown on the safety card available to every pax in their seat pocket in pictures (as is all UK airlines)......you would know this had you read this. For somebody who is obviously so safety aware I'm surprised you haven't got round to doing this or indeed ensured your elderly relatives do likewise when traveling.
The CAA will asses whether or not a brace position is achievable on an aircraft type and grant an AOC accordingly as they do the evac procedures etc etc..........
In a pre planned emergency landing/ditching the brace position would again be demonstrated by the CC in accordance with the operators emergency SOP's.
Of course if the aircraft hits an emergency on take off/landing (unplanned) we don't have time to brief you specifically and assume you have actually read the safety card provided to you in your seatpocket and you are told to read in the routine safety demo.....and this includes the brace position you need to adopt when you hear "brace brace" from the Capain and the shouted commands re inforcing this from your CC....
Moral of the story.....read the damn card, the newspaper can wait until inflight
There was a discussion on the practicalities of the brace position for tall people a while back............
Perhaps on my next trip one of the CC can sit in my seat and show me
Why would you need the CC to do that Mr Optimistic
The EZY brace position is very clearly shown on the safety card available to every pax in their seat pocket in pictures (as is all UK airlines)......you would know this had you read this. For somebody who is obviously so safety aware I'm surprised you haven't got round to doing this or indeed ensured your elderly relatives do likewise when traveling.
The CAA will asses whether or not a brace position is achievable on an aircraft type and grant an AOC accordingly as they do the evac procedures etc etc..........
In a pre planned emergency landing/ditching the brace position would again be demonstrated by the CC in accordance with the operators emergency SOP's.
Of course if the aircraft hits an emergency on take off/landing (unplanned) we don't have time to brief you specifically and assume you have actually read the safety card provided to you in your seatpocket and you are told to read in the routine safety demo.....and this includes the brace position you need to adopt when you hear "brace brace" from the Capain and the shouted commands re inforcing this from your CC....
Moral of the story.....read the damn card, the newspaper can wait until inflight
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Steady on lcd !
You are right, this was discussed sometime ago by (I would think) a taller person than me (a towering presence at 5ft 9 1/2 ). It was from memory of this that I posted here.
I read the card on EVERY trip and so do aged relatives. You never know, the location of the exits on a 319/320 might have changed (though I am still not comfortable I understand the wing door opening process
).
Thing was I was always a bit doubtful whether it could be done without neck strain (not as flexible as I think I once was), but figured I would go fluid in a real emergency. So a bit taken aback when this 'concern' (doesn't really worry me) which has never been discussed between us actually was a choice discriminator.
edit: should have said relative is a 6ft 2 85 year old).
Perhaps we are just lazy ne'er do wells who have nothing better to do, but odd it keeps cropping up. Could it be a genuine concern do you think ?
As for CC trying it: just that, if you have a medium height individual, pls try it and report back ! I thought about doing it last time but felt too visible. Maybe I'll hang back on arrival when there are no witnesses next time.
You are right, this was discussed sometime ago by (I would think) a taller person than me (a towering presence at 5ft 9 1/2 ). It was from memory of this that I posted here.
I read the card on EVERY trip and so do aged relatives. You never know, the location of the exits on a 319/320 might have changed (though I am still not comfortable I understand the wing door opening process
).Thing was I was always a bit doubtful whether it could be done without neck strain (not as flexible as I think I once was), but figured I would go fluid in a real emergency. So a bit taken aback when this 'concern' (doesn't really worry me) which has never been discussed between us actually was a choice discriminator.
edit: should have said relative is a 6ft 2 85 year old).
Perhaps we are just lazy ne'er do wells who have nothing better to do, but odd it keeps cropping up. Could it be a genuine concern do you think ?
As for CC trying it: just that, if you have a medium height individual, pls try it and report back ! I thought about doing it last time but felt too visible. Maybe I'll hang back on arrival when there are no witnesses next time.
Last edited by Mr Optimistic; 2nd May 2011 at 14:44. Reason: bit more info
Regarding any additional emergency briefing, do bear in mind that in the Air France A340 overrun and fire at Toronto, the touchdown was followed by the usual (embarassing) Gallic outburst of applause from the pax - which was immediately followed by the Brace command from the flight deck.
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I'll give it a go next time Glasgow beckons, but if I get questioned for suspicious behaviour I'll be cross.
I was just so surprised that this factored in as a choice of carrier: would never have bothered me. Think the aged relative must buy extra leg room as last time I went anywhere near Thomas Cook (or was it Airtours), I thought I would have to be greased to slither into the seat (and for the avoidance of doubt I weigh 73kg so its not like I have to get past my own stomach).
I was just so surprised that this factored in as a choice of carrier: would never have bothered me. Think the aged relative must buy extra leg room as last time I went anywhere near Thomas Cook (or was it Airtours), I thought I would have to be greased to slither into the seat (and for the avoidance of doubt I weigh 73kg so its not like I have to get past my own stomach).
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Going back to the first post, I travelled on a Thompson 757 in January, and am surprised that the aged relatives consider that the seat pich is better than Easy. The seats might be higher, and faced with leather, but in my view there is more practical space between the seats on Easy than on Thom. Having sat all over Easy A319's, I've never had my knees against the seat in front, but did so on completely different rows out and back with Thom. In fact on the return leg, after T/o I discovered the row behing was empty and moved, but I still found it an uncomfortable seat. I found the whole Thom 757 experience noisy and claustrophobic, and I'm just a little legged 5'9".
I'm also fit and flexible, and there's no way I could achieve the brace position in either the Thom 757 or an Easy 319.
I'm also fit and flexible, and there's no way I could achieve the brace position in either the Thom 757 or an Easy 319.
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I suspect that if I ram my backside into the seatback and sort of bend round the (stowed) tray and that nasty catch in a sort of circular motion, that it can be done. I shall find out. Think it will be rather inelegant hence the need for privacy !
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Mr Optimistic......my apologies, I misread your post and thourght as you wanted the CC to demonstrate the brace position you hadn't read the wealth of info on this.
In training we had to go through the emergency drills which include the pax brace position in our sim at Luton. I can assure you it is do able although not comfortable.
Furthermore the 319/320 seats will bend forward very easily believe me!! You don't need an impact to test that one on a turnaround and some of our pax will demonstrate it inflight to achieve extra legroom as well
Your relatives choose Thomson over EZY for this reason alone as indicated in your OP?? Have to say I'm surprised given the seat pitch for Thomson shorthaul is less than EZY.
And yes they can purchase extra legroom......on both carriers.
In training we had to go through the emergency drills which include the pax brace position in our sim at Luton. I can assure you it is do able although not comfortable.
Furthermore the 319/320 seats will bend forward very easily believe me!! You don't need an impact to test that one on a turnaround and some of our pax will demonstrate it inflight to achieve extra legroom as well
Your relatives choose Thomson over EZY for this reason alone as indicated in your OP?? Have to say I'm surprised given the seat pitch for Thomson shorthaul is less than EZY.
And yes they can purchase extra legroom......on both carriers.
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Moral of the story.....read the damn card, the newspaper can wait until inflight
If the pax cannot read, the safety card and indeed the newspaper would be deemed useless anyway.
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lcd: no problem. Found it rather bizarre myself. I'll tell them they can buy extra leg room (this is to Madeira). Could have understood it if it was a comfort issue, but concern over achieving the brace position -well it shows how diverse your passengers are I guess. Still going to try it myself !