Brace Position
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The Brace position is intended to minimise injuries in a survivable crash. It is based upon research by people who know what they are talking about, not made up by individual airlines. There are three main components (In the UK):
As in all things aviation, the position is something of a compromise and will clearly accommodate some sizes of human being better than others - for the majority however, it remains a sensible and practical position.
What I find confusing from the previous posts is that this position is clearly viable for any passenger in any seat pitch. If somebody believes that it is not achievable then they have simply not understood what the brace position actually is?
P.S. - There are safety arguments for/against rearward facing seats: Only one side of the argument has been presented above.
- Feet flat on the floor, slightly behind the knees - reduces "flail" which can shatter shin bones on the seat rail in front, rendering an otherwise functional survivor immobile.
- Arms and Hands - Over back of head (not interlocked finger) and elbows in to reduce flail and protect from flying debris.
- Leaning Forward - reduces the chance of submarining or jacknifing which can cause impact injuries and/or internal injuries.
- Head Location - Resting the head against whatever it could strike, thereby reducing head impact injuries and chance of unconsciousness.
As in all things aviation, the position is something of a compromise and will clearly accommodate some sizes of human being better than others - for the majority however, it remains a sensible and practical position.
What I find confusing from the previous posts is that this position is clearly viable for any passenger in any seat pitch. If somebody believes that it is not achievable then they have simply not understood what the brace position actually is?
P.S. - There are safety arguments for/against rearward facing seats: Only one side of the argument has been presented above.
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Sorry to slightly disagree Tightslot, but having studied Ergonomics at University, and particularly the impact of pax environment on crash survivabilities, I feel I can speak with some authority. As a short-legged, long bodied person, in a fully forward lean, the distance from the top of my head to hip fulcrum is more than 29". It is therefore not possible to achieve the optimum position with a seat pitch of 29" (or 31" for that matter), and I'm only 5'9". The compromise that the "authorities" seem to find acceptable is therefore to have the forehead up against the seat in front (to reduce impact injury). Unfortunately, that dramatically increases the chance of a broken neck. Even worse is the picture that you still see with some carriers, with the face/forehead up against the seat back upper.
However, the first point that you mention about foot position is so important. It is smashed shins that will prevent a survivor getting out, and this has proven to be the case in so many accidents involving fire etc. Even with impact only accidents such as Kegworth, many more would have been walking wounded rather than requiring evacuation (and then long term debilitating injury) had they had their feet tucked in as you describe. I automatically get my feet into this position in any take-off and landing just in case. Emphasising this in the safety demo and safety card pics might be more useful than the rest of the brace position.
However, the first point that you mention about foot position is so important. It is smashed shins that will prevent a survivor getting out, and this has proven to be the case in so many accidents involving fire etc. Even with impact only accidents such as Kegworth, many more would have been walking wounded rather than requiring evacuation (and then long term debilitating injury) had they had their feet tucked in as you describe. I automatically get my feet into this position in any take-off and landing just in case. Emphasising this in the safety demo and safety card pics might be more useful than the rest of the brace position.
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No problems disagreeing Hipennine - that's what it's all about - however, with great respect to your Ergonomics pedigree I feel that the upper body comments somewhat miss the point.
Some kind of compromise upper body brace position has to be established that is practical for a majority of passengers at the normal economy seat pitch range of 28" to 32". It is possible (I don't know) that the position may increase the probability of a broken neck, but that has to be measured against the (demonstrated) probability of unconsciousness from head impact.
There has been a considerable volume of work completed on the Brace position and notwithstanding your credentials, the "authorities" have come up with a viable position, that is perceived by the industry to be realistic. The danger in having individuals come up with possible well-intentioned variations is that they may confuse others. You may well be correct about the inherent dangers of the upper-body brace position, I cannot tell: However, until a majority of your peers agree and the Brace position is adjusted accordingly, please excuse some scepticism.
Some kind of compromise upper body brace position has to be established that is practical for a majority of passengers at the normal economy seat pitch range of 28" to 32". It is possible (I don't know) that the position may increase the probability of a broken neck, but that has to be measured against the (demonstrated) probability of unconsciousness from head impact.
There has been a considerable volume of work completed on the Brace position and notwithstanding your credentials, the "authorities" have come up with a viable position, that is perceived by the industry to be realistic. The danger in having individuals come up with possible well-intentioned variations is that they may confuse others. You may well be correct about the inherent dangers of the upper-body brace position, I cannot tell: However, until a majority of your peers agree and the Brace position is adjusted accordingly, please excuse some scepticism.
Thread Starter
Begining to wish I hadn't raised this....
What I find confusing from the previous posts is that this position is clearly viable for any passenger in any seat pitch. If somebody believes that it is not achievable then they have simply not understood what the brace position actually is?
Perhaps not, no way I can tell. Still they are a couple of fully paid up adults who obviously take it all very seriously (to let such a thing decide their choice of carrier, rightly or wrongly).
What I find confusing from the previous posts is that this position is clearly viable for any passenger in any seat pitch. If somebody believes that it is not achievable then they have simply not understood what the brace position actually is?
Perhaps not, no way I can tell. Still they are a couple of fully paid up adults who obviously take it all very seriously (to let such a thing decide their choice of carrier, rightly or wrongly).
Paxing All Over The World
Increasingly, the brace position is demonstrated by carriers that use video demo. I have seen long haul do this with VS using cartoons and Thom using children (brilliantly if I may say as then children on their predominantly holiday business model more likely to watch).
Whenever I see such videos or look at the card - I am sceptical that I can make it work in Y. I'm of average height and build but have noted over time in these forums that feet position and flying debris are critical and I suppose that I shall try to concentrate on those, even if I cannot get my head further down.
Whenever I see such videos or look at the card - I am sceptical that I can make it work in Y. I'm of average height and build but have noted over time in these forums that feet position and flying debris are critical and I suppose that I shall try to concentrate on those, even if I cannot get my head further down.
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Hi John......good points 
The EZY safety demo is "in your seatpocket you will find a safety card.......... It also shows the brace position you must adopt if you hear the command "brace brace".
This is carried out after the Captain has done his welcome on board and drawn attention to the iminent safety demo in which he asks for pax attention. Some will follow the the company spiel, some will ask you to put down magazines etc.
We also had one captain who would say " please pay close attention to the safety briefing as it could save your life one day, hopefully not today" That tended to get more attention than normal from the pax on the demo but still didn't see many of them reading the card when I secured the cabin.
In the event of a pre-planned emergency landing/ditching the CC read the emergency PA which is different to what you hear/see on a routine demo. In this the brace position is explained and time permitting the CC will check the pax are doing this correctly as well.
In an unplanned emergency on take off/landing we won't have time and it's why the card is provided for you to read prior to take off so you can familiarise yourself. Many airlines will now give braile cards to blind pax as well.
The information is provided but we cannot make pax read it unfortunately.
The EZY safety demo is "in your seatpocket you will find a safety card.......... It also shows the brace position you must adopt if you hear the command "brace brace".
This is carried out after the Captain has done his welcome on board and drawn attention to the iminent safety demo in which he asks for pax attention. Some will follow the the company spiel, some will ask you to put down magazines etc.
We also had one captain who would say " please pay close attention to the safety briefing as it could save your life one day, hopefully not today" That tended to get more attention than normal from the pax on the demo but still didn't see many of them reading the card when I secured the cabin.
In the event of a pre-planned emergency landing/ditching the CC read the emergency PA which is different to what you hear/see on a routine demo. In this the brace position is explained and time permitting the CC will check the pax are doing this correctly as well.
In an unplanned emergency on take off/landing we won't have time and it's why the card is provided for you to read prior to take off so you can familiarise yourself. Many airlines will now give braile cards to blind pax as well.
The information is provided but we cannot make pax read it unfortunately.
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Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic
Begining to wish I hadn't raised this....
Thread Starter
Yes, EZY seem very good in this regard, nor have I any complaints about seat pitch. Think I may have wrong idea about brace position so will sort it out next trip.
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Brace Position
I have it from a very good source (company doctor) that the brace position exists solely as as best practice tactic to preserve the dental records of the the unfortunate.
I believe that too.
I believe that too.
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Surely if the position was adopted in order to preserve dental records, this must mean that the position actually does some good towards preventing your face getting smashed in. Therefore although there's also the possibility that you could have other bodily organs damaged, your head must be fairly 'protected' no?
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I have it from a very good source (company doctor) that the brace position exists solely as as best practice tactic to preserve the dental records of the the unfortunate.
I believe that too.
I believe that too.
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I once did a course on major aircraft accident casualty management, run by that firm that is always called in as morticians and runs the identification process, in UK at least. I forget the name; something like "Kenton"?
We learned that after a high speed impact into the ground, most victims' jaws and teeth are found in their stomachs, usually somewhere in the middle of the compressed mass of tissue. Many colourful slides were shown to illustrate the point. This was also my observation when helping clear up after a Caravelle CFIT into a mountain east of Dubai in the early 70's.
Not a lot of people know that, so I thought I would share it as a contribution to the discussion about the role of the brace position in assisting with dental ID.
We learned that after a high speed impact into the ground, most victims' jaws and teeth are found in their stomachs, usually somewhere in the middle of the compressed mass of tissue. Many colourful slides were shown to illustrate the point. This was also my observation when helping clear up after a Caravelle CFIT into a mountain east of Dubai in the early 70's.
Not a lot of people know that, so I thought I would share it as a contribution to the discussion about the role of the brace position in assisting with dental ID.
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I have it from a very good source (company doctor) that the brace position exists solely as as best practice tactic to preserve the dental records of the the unfortunate.
Now how would this help to identify the totally edentulous now-dead passengers? After all, one top and bottom acrylic set is like an other.
Thread Starter
Brace Position
Tried to find the old thread on this but it has been put out of its misery it seems. Well, its humble pie time. No problems achieving brace position according to instruction. Surprising how age counts against flexibility, wish I could get my head lower but nothing can be done about that now. Seat pitch on EZY was more than enough. Bit of aggravation from arm rests and some funny looks from the CC not withstanding.
