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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III

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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III

Old 10th Oct 2010, 08:51
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Today is X/X/MMX (or X/X/X)
at 10 a.m. it will be X/X/X/X
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Old 10th Oct 2010, 09:38
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Look out, the Normans are coming !

Give or take a millenium
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Old 10th Oct 2010, 10:40
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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On 17 December 2009, Mrs Justice Cox said
67. The posting by Ms. Malone, which the union accepts gave members legally incorrect advice directly on the point, could have been removed from the website, but it was not.
UNITE have found a crude way of preventing a reoccurrence of this error

Last edited by notlangley; 10th Oct 2010 at 11:19. Reason: "BASSA" changed to "UNITE"
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Old 10th Oct 2010, 19:34
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
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Miss M
I am struggling to understand your attitude in this whole saga as you seem to contradict yourself a lot as evidenced by the following statements posted by yourself on this thread and on the other PPRuNe threads.
Quote from Chuchinchow to Miss M:
If I was in your situation I would ask the leadership of that union why, after more than a year and a half of dealing with my employer, it had not managed to reach any sort of equable solution to its original grievance.
Answer from Miss M: Blame it on the union (sarcastic). Surely our management could never be responsible for not reaching an agreement with us.
However, on 18th June 2010 you posted this response in another thread:
.Eddy, if you are referring to the deal last year, yes. I wish we could turn back time. I would have happily accepted it as it meant that future crew would work on existing WW and EF fleets. It would have included the guarantee which I need over my job.
</B>So you know fully well that BA has tried to put in a reasonable proposal at least once by your standard, but your union chose to say no without consulting members, so don't say that BA is responsible for not reaching an agreement with you. You also recently said on 7th Oct. 2010:
.ChicoG, I will never feel embarrased over my actions or claim that they were pointless. I still believe going on strike was the right decision and I won't hestitate a second to go on another strike should we vote for it...
Snas
, I'm finding it very difficult to be saying that BA employees who either crossed the picket line or trained to break our strike are my colleagues. I find their behaviour to be despicable...
</B>and on 9th October you said:
.The Flying Nunn, Do you really have to ask this question again? I was asked it only a couple of days ago. Why did I go on strike? Because of imposition! Not due to the practical fact that crewing levels were changed but because they were changed without any negotiation.
But again, in earlier threads you admitted this:
.Eddy, The strikes were not needed. They were never needed. They never should have taken place
Why then do you find it so difficult to understand that other crew chose not to strike with you when you yourself realised long ago that the strikes were not needed, never been needed and should never have taken place? Why do you despise them so much for arriving at the same conclusion as you had? Was it because you chose the wrong decision, i.e. back your union thinking that it will win the argument anyway by striking and when it didn't produce the result you were expecting, you begrudge those who didn't support the strike for getting it right? Do you really hate your non-striking colleagues so much for not being in the same hopeless situation as you are?
You keep saying that those who signed the last BA offer sold themselves down the river. You seem to forget that those lucky enough to sign the last BA offer are on a win-win situation as not only did they made sure that their contract will no longer deteriorate (at least for the time stated in the contract) but also, in the unlikely event that Bassa secure a better contract than the recent BA offer, they (the 1000 who signed) will also be entitled to the same better contract. So indeed, there is no reason imho, why non-strikers should now join you in your hopeless and ill-thought-of fight, although I can understand why you would want some company.
And now, I would like to echo the following question directed to you ages ago by Bridchen on the other thread, in reaction to your admission that the strike was never necessary.
Quote from Bridchen on 18 June 2010:
.MissM, I'm almost lost for words. The same proposal that BASSA, according to your logic, rejected as they found it lacking, is now on reflection, a proposal you would wish to accept, if your ST was reinstated with DOJ. Your ST would have been intact with DOJ at the time of the proposal, before you went on strike, so then why aren't you asking what the union found so lacking about it? And to outright turn it down, instead of ironing out the details.
Yes, indeed, the strikes never needed to take place, therefore, why are you so willing to ride the open-top bus?

I, however would like to rephrase the last sentence: Yes, indeed, the strikes never needed to take place therefore why are you so willing to do it again and entice your colleagues to join you in your doomed plight?
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Old 10th Oct 2010, 21:47
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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I can not imagine BA negotiating for the removal of Mixed Fleet. MF is the “Crown Jewel” and the future for BA. By including “performance bonuses” in the MF package of benefits pay scale can always be tweaked in a way that rewards the best. Recruiting could be enhanced with first year bonus guarantees if it was appropriate or needed. Senior BASSA leadership do not care about MF as it does not affect them. Long term cost savings with MF are very, very significant not to mention the issues of management. I think ST is the issue which could be negotiated by BA. TW is quoted as saying (I have no knowledge of the authenticity of the quote) it was now about an exit strategy and getting members their travel privileges back. The question is what will BA receive in exchange for the reinstatement of ST to strikers? WW must maintain credibility with the other 30,000 BA employees.

Maybe there is no progress at all and Unite merely told BASSA there would be no ballot.
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Old 11th Oct 2010, 00:29
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ann Rigg View Post
Absolutely pathetic, stupid and very misguided fools ............
Is there any need for that? Bassa is not a person, so a sweeping generalisation will no doubt be insulting to quite a few people.
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Old 11th Oct 2010, 02:11
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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MissM, pontificating on the "other channel", advises us:
I have worked with VCC during non-striking times and some of them have absolutely no idea what they are doing.
Is that so, MissM?

Clearly you have worked for British Airways for so many years now that you have conveniently forgotten what it was like to be a novice stewardess.

C'mon [name deleted], you can do better than that!
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Old 11th Oct 2010, 11:48
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Colonel White View Post
Call100 Job title ? totally irrelevant, its job dimensions that are important. Salary ? again not useful, there are some skills that have a higher value to organisations than others. In aviation, flight crew earn commensurately more than most managers with equivalent line responsibilities. Equally, you'll find that general admin workers tend to earn less than IT programmers. If you look at most organisations the highly paid folk tend to be the sales force, who get commission. I fai to see how publishing such information would even up the playing field.
Thanks for the lesson. You missed the point. The personal attacks were/are getting out of hand. Mostly from people giving off a holier than thou attitude.
You failing to see why it would even up the playing field bothers me not....I would not expect anything else.

If I was a cynic I would think that BA had yet another invented persona on the forum of late, to make attacks. However, I am trying not to be cynical these days so maybe I won't think it...
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Old 11th Oct 2010, 15:03
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Call100:

If you have been reading any of the public forums you would realize that BA hardly need to "invent" a persona...the vast majority of individuals simply do not support BASSA's conduct or their position....whatever that may be from day to day.

The fact that BASSA is unaware of the status of present negotiations says much.
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Old 11th Oct 2010, 15:22
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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nononsense frank

A strike should always be taken as a last resort. Many of us felt that we were not getting anywhere with our management. Proposal after proposal was put forward to our management who declined every single one of them. Management in return presented proposals which included sanctions not considered to be fair. I don't believe that I took the wrong decision for going on strike. I chose to back my union who is responsible for our terms and conditions. If everyone who voted for industrial action had supported their vote as well VCC not interfearing in our dispute we never would have been here today. They are responsible for us being here today with a dispute still to be solved. Not us.

Personally I don't think that those who signed the individual offer this summer should be entitled to take advantage of our future proposal. They are clearly not willing to fight for our terms and conditions but instead relying on some of us fighting on their behalf.
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Old 11th Oct 2010, 15:36
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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meanwhile back in the real world..............
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Old 11th Oct 2010, 15:39
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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What will be interesting, is if the sacked workers reinstatement is part of the process being discussed. I doubt very much if BA will accept any re-engagement as a settlement, but do you think that BA should enter into an arbitration agreement and look at each case individually?
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Old 11th Oct 2010, 15:44
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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MissM:

BASSA's actions ARE the business of each and every BA employee. No division operates in a vacuum.

As for being upset regarding non-striking crew gaining the benefit of BASSA's actions....I would have to say that most are waiting for BASSA to actually gain anything in this dispute. So far its been a series of own goals.

Litebulbs:

I don't believe BA should, but it wouldn't shock me to see some sort of movement for purposes of settlement.
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Old 11th Oct 2010, 15:45
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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MissM wrote

Personally I don't think that those who signed the individual offer this summer should be entitled to take advantage of our future proposal. They are clearly not willing to fight for our terms and conditions but instead relying on some of us fighting on their behalf.
Firstly Miss M I will be gobsmacked if Bassa get a better deal than was offered in June. It just wont happen. Also Its NOT upto YOU to say who is entitled to what. I mean if you honestly think any of the Bassa hierachy listen or better still actually act on what their members want then you must have been reading something differant to me in the last 18 months.

Finally I and many others would have HAPPILY fought to save our T/C's IF only Bassa had put realistic proposals to BA. How many times have it been said on here that Bassa's savings didn't add up. They were independently audited by PWC, but of course the Bassa reps didnt believe them!! I am frankly sick and tired of being told its OUR fault. Remember Bassa is NOT a closed shop anymore and its members pay £17/month for the 'priviledge' of being in Bassa. The members are supposed to be Bassa , but as MOST of us know Bassa is in reality DH and the rest of the top brass. Try saying ANYTHING to them that doesn't get their approval and the result is simply abuse

Litebulbs wrote

What will be interesting, is if the sacked workers reinstatement is part of the process being discussed. I doubt very much if BA will accept any re-engagement as a settlement, but do you think that BA should enter into an arbitration agreement and look at each case individually?

Quite simply why should they. I see another longhaul CSD got the sack this week. When I heard their name I wasn't surprised one iota. Another 'troublemaker'
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Old 11th Oct 2010, 15:59
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JUAN TRIPP View Post
The members are supposed to be Bassa , but as MOST of us know Bassa is in reality DH and the rest of the top brass. Try saying ANYTHING to them that doesn't get their approval and the result is simply abuse
Now it will be interesting to see how Unite and BA see the recognition agreement. It is my understanding that it is agreement with the union in question, with the employer, not the branch or membership. I would imagine that some pressure would be put onto the Bassa branch to accept, or face notice on the current agreement, by Unite. But that will be a gamble, if you believe the PCCC releases, on its growing membership.
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Old 11th Oct 2010, 16:01
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JUAN TRIPP View Post
Quite simply why should they. I see another longhaul CSD got the sack this week. When I heard their name I wasn't surprised one iota. Another 'troublemaker'
Why wouldn't they? If the case was justified, then the dismissal would stand.
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Old 11th Oct 2010, 16:11
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Management in return presented proposals which included sanctions not considered to be fair
What unfair sanctions were there in BA's original offer to remove 1 crew member and offer VR - rejected out of hand by BASSA following their "no negotiation" vote?
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Old 11th Oct 2010, 17:16
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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Personally I don't think that those who signed the individual offer this summer should be entitled to take advantage of our future proposal.
Which "future proposal" will that be, MissM?

Who is going to put forward this "future proposal", MissM?

Will it be Liz Malone, the world famous authority on labour law, whose "advice" cost her BASSA followers dear?

Or will it be Duncan Holley, the Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, copywriter and agronome?

More to the point, of what might this "future proposal" consist,MissM?
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Old 11th Oct 2010, 17:19
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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Proposal after proposal was put forward to our management who declined every single one of them.
Precis five of those proposals please, MissM.

No, that's too difficult a demand to make of a BASSA member; name three.

Last edited by Chuchinchow; 11th Oct 2010 at 17:32.
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Old 11th Oct 2010, 17:52
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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On 11 October 2010 MissM said
Proposal after proposal was put forward to our management who declined every single one of them.
On 19 February 2010, Sir Christopher Holland (Sitting as a Judge of the High Court) said
25th June – Unite put forward a written Pay and Productivity Proposal, claiming that it would save BA £173m. It proposed some alterations in the cabin crew complements but no significant reduction. Thereafter BA tried to understand and analyse the cost saving as anticipated by Unite, bringing in accountants, Price Waterhouse Cooper. The latter’s assessment was that the saving would be about £53m. Unite refused to have further discussions over this issue, whether with BA or the accountants.
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