BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II
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This is all about damage control now and getting staff travel back for our members
Unite seem to be fighting the wrong battle here. They currently have very limited influence on the process for transferring work to New Fleet. Once in New Fleet, they seem to have very little scope for organising the workforce. If BA wants to play hardball it can just treat New Fleet as a separate bargaining unit can't it? And then make Unite jump through all the hoops to force recognition via the statutory route as opposed to a voluntary recognition agreement. Meanwhile they could do a deal with someone more amenable than Unite to grant them recognition voluntarily in New Fleet, thereby creating a bit of healthy competition to win members, ie more likely to be much more emphasis on member interests and input as opposed to the current top down management style employed by BASSA.
Now that Duncan Holley has been interviewed by the Police, can the CPS, when deciding whether they should take action, take into account any further communications from him in regards to the dispute?
However if it is the latter, the police certainly will take anything further he has to say on the subject into account - and he would have been cautioned in that regard.
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Anyone know what was said?
On the old DH front, I note he still maintains that it was and is BA 'bullying' and general thuggery that got him summoned to the nick.
Fails to mention that it was undoubtably on the back of a complaint made by a staff member about DH's behaviour and electronic communications with the individual concerned. I would say that BA had a duty of care to support that individual against DH's diatribes.
Anyway, DH keeps mentioning a taunting thread that the person started on the BASSA forum that kicked the whole thing off. Has anyone had an eye-ball of what was actually said in that initial posting/thread that was so awful that it was taunting other people?
Fails to mention that it was undoubtably on the back of a complaint made by a staff member about DH's behaviour and electronic communications with the individual concerned. I would say that BA had a duty of care to support that individual against DH's diatribes.
Anyway, DH keeps mentioning a taunting thread that the person started on the BASSA forum that kicked the whole thing off. Has anyone had an eye-ball of what was actually said in that initial posting/thread that was so awful that it was taunting other people?
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"Mocking thread"
I too would like to know what was in that original thread, that led to DH's predicament.
DH continues to refer to it as a "Mocking" thread... was it mocking, or more accurately someone simply expressing their own point of view?
would be interested to know!
Cannot help but feel that whatever that original thread though, DH is showing astonishingly high levels of hypocrisy.
DH continues to refer to it as a "Mocking" thread... was it mocking, or more accurately someone simply expressing their own point of view?
would be interested to know!
Cannot help but feel that whatever that original thread though, DH is showing astonishingly high levels of hypocrisy.
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It appears the poll to determine if members were willing to have their dues increased by 5 lbs did not go so well.
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mocking thread
The so called "mocking thread" was far from it, it was just critical of BASSAs' use of ABBA analogies, amongst others in one of their (many) newsletters.
Good old Dunc seemed to take this personally as I assume he is largely responsible for these pieces of "garbage" (the newsletters that is), and launched a tirade against said person, which included "outting them" on a largely anonymous
Good old Dunc seemed to take this personally as I assume he is largely responsible for these pieces of "garbage" (the newsletters that is), and launched a tirade against said person, which included "outting them" on a largely anonymous
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So Mr Holley is an ABBAmentalist?
When he finally leaves his post, will he go out humming 'I was defeated, you won the war'?
When he finally leaves his post, will he go out humming 'I was defeated, you won the war'?
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OK ... I've caught up with the last here and on the other Thread.
"Hello, Mr Holley ... zzzzz. You have nothing to say, nothing to offer, nothing to resolve any issues. You just moan and groan as your imagined support evaporates. Would you be kind enough to spare a few million people who fly BA any further inconvenience by concentrating on your greenhouse? Thank you."
"Hello, Mr Holley ... zzzzz. You have nothing to say, nothing to offer, nothing to resolve any issues. You just moan and groan as your imagined support evaporates. Would you be kind enough to spare a few million people who fly BA any further inconvenience by concentrating on your greenhouse? Thank you."
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I think that many of the "normal" cabin crew are not particularly interested in or motivated by the BASSA leadership. I think that many of the "normal" crew see the value of being in a trade union that is the formally recognised negotiating body with BA. BASSA have over the years created an enviable set of T&Cs for their members.
Many crew believe that this will be sorted and when it is, they will still need a union to protect them in the small things, a place to go for guidance and assistance if they have a legitimate dispute with the company, say over absence or some such. BASSA, like most unions is not all bad. The leadership are way off base in this current dispute but that in itself does not negate the positive benefits of being in a TU.
There is no sensible alternative for CC, the PCCC is a toothless and faceless thing at the moment and can do nothing to materially assist any potential member as BA does not recognise them.
BASSA may well need reform and I think that it's constitution is deeply flawed - a show of hands can postpone elections. Even during the WWII we had elections and Churchill was thrown out - so there is no democratic reason to not hold elections. DH is holding onto power and influence undemocratically but that is a matter for the future.
Leaving BASSA right now may well be throwing the baby out with the bathwater, leaving crew exposed in industrial matters but also allowing the union to become ever more extreme. Others though, are just apathetic.
Many crew believe that this will be sorted and when it is, they will still need a union to protect them in the small things, a place to go for guidance and assistance if they have a legitimate dispute with the company, say over absence or some such. BASSA, like most unions is not all bad. The leadership are way off base in this current dispute but that in itself does not negate the positive benefits of being in a TU.
There is no sensible alternative for CC, the PCCC is a toothless and faceless thing at the moment and can do nothing to materially assist any potential member as BA does not recognise them.
BASSA may well need reform and I think that it's constitution is deeply flawed - a show of hands can postpone elections. Even during the WWII we had elections and Churchill was thrown out - so there is no democratic reason to not hold elections. DH is holding onto power and influence undemocratically but that is a matter for the future.
Leaving BASSA right now may well be throwing the baby out with the bathwater, leaving crew exposed in industrial matters but also allowing the union to become ever more extreme. Others though, are just apathetic.
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IMO, a neat summary, Juan.
There's nowhere else for them to go, and they feel a need for some 'employee protection outfit'. Which is fine.
Whether the Company needs BASSA, and a collective of union radicals and over-paid part-time workers, is a different issue.
There's nowhere else for them to go, and they feel a need for some 'employee protection outfit'. Which is fine.
Whether the Company needs BASSA, and a collective of union radicals and over-paid part-time workers, is a different issue.
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Something that is unclear to me is why cabin crew could not resign from BASSA, but then join another branch of Unite. I can understand the problems with joining a seperate union like GMB as BA do not recognise them within the bargaining group, but surely the folk who are hacked off with BASSA could either join CC89 or indeed the LHR branch that the rest of the BA workforce are members of. Unite would still be recognised so it wouldn't alter anything there and the probability is that there would be a better set of reps to deal with and a more reasonable executive. .
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Juan,
Winston Churchill lost the election in July 1945, after the war in Europe had been won. He went on to win the election in 1951 and retired from politics in 1955.
Winston Churchill lost the election in July 1945, after the war in Europe had been won. He went on to win the election in 1951 and retired from politics in 1955.
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Hi Neptunus Rex,
The war in Europe had been won, but the war in the East had not. In 1945 Britain was still very much at the heart of of global empire much of which was in the East. Britain was still very much still at war. The Election of 1945 was held (for the most part) on 5th July, the first atomic bomb was not dropped until 6th August. As far as the British public were aware, at the time of the election Britain was still very much engaged in a World War. What was your point?
The war in Europe had been won, but the war in the East had not. In 1945 Britain was still very much at the heart of of global empire much of which was in the East. Britain was still very much still at war. The Election of 1945 was held (for the most part) on 5th July, the first atomic bomb was not dropped until 6th August. As far as the British public were aware, at the time of the election Britain was still very much engaged in a World War. What was your point?
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Juan and notlangley
You are both correct, of course. I think it is a matter of perception, which is one of the most significant factors in politics. People in Britain in 1945 wanted social change, so Atlees slogan about "not going back to the 1930s" struck the right chord. Atlee had been Deputy Prime Minister under Churchill and had served with distinction in the Army in WW1, so was seen as a capable and honest leader. Churchill had led the winning side in the war. Although he was defeated at the ballot box, he retained the affection and admiration of the people.
DH, LaLa et al have not won their war; they long ago snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. As you say, Juan, reform is needed.
You are both correct, of course. I think it is a matter of perception, which is one of the most significant factors in politics. People in Britain in 1945 wanted social change, so Atlees slogan about "not going back to the 1930s" struck the right chord. Atlee had been Deputy Prime Minister under Churchill and had served with distinction in the Army in WW1, so was seen as a capable and honest leader. Churchill had led the winning side in the war. Although he was defeated at the ballot box, he retained the affection and admiration of the people.
DH, LaLa et al have not won their war; they long ago snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. As you say, Juan, reform is needed.
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Some time since I last visited this discussion. Nothing seems to have changed much, other than DH appears to be reaching the end of the rope provided to "hang himself with"
I too am confused by the lack of action by "normal" Bassa members in allowing themsleves to be led down a delusional and destructive path. I can understand their need for recognised representation, but staying in BASSA is only feeding its leaderships ego and matyrdom personae.
At one point I could Sympathise with BASSA members still in the union but against it's course of action, now i cannot. Sheep to the slaughter.
I too am confused by the lack of action by "normal" Bassa members in allowing themsleves to be led down a delusional and destructive path. I can understand their need for recognised representation, but staying in BASSA is only feeding its leaderships ego and matyrdom personae.
At one point I could Sympathise with BASSA members still in the union but against it's course of action, now i cannot. Sheep to the slaughter.