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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II

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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II

Old 17th Sep 2010, 10:57
  #2061 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
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"Mocking thread"

I too would like to know what was in that original thread, that led to DH's predicament.

DH continues to refer to it as a "Mocking" thread... was it mocking, or more accurately someone simply expressing their own point of view?

would be interested to know!

Cannot help but feel that whatever that original thread though, DH is showing astonishingly high levels of hypocrisy.
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Old 17th Sep 2010, 12:05
  #2062 (permalink)  
 
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It appears the poll to determine if members were willing to have their dues increased by 5 lbs did not go so well.
Don't apologise, it made me smile and I knew what you meant. I mean some of them could do with losing 5 lbs but then so could we all.
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Old 17th Sep 2010, 12:35
  #2063 (permalink)  
 
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mocking thread

The so called "mocking thread" was far from it, it was just critical of BASSAs' use of ABBA analogies, amongst others in one of their (many) newsletters.

Good old Dunc seemed to take this personally as I assume he is largely responsible for these pieces of "garbage" (the newsletters that is), and launched a tirade against said person, which included "outting them" on a largely anonymous
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Old 17th Sep 2010, 13:03
  #2064 (permalink)  

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So Mr Holley is an ABBAmentalist?

When he finally leaves his post, will he go out humming 'I was defeated, you won the war'?
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Old 17th Sep 2010, 16:33
  #2065 (permalink)  
 
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OK ... I've caught up with the last here and on the other Thread.

"Hello, Mr Holley ... zzzzz. You have nothing to say, nothing to offer, nothing to resolve any issues. You just moan and groan as your imagined support evaporates. Would you be kind enough to spare a few million people who fly BA any further inconvenience by concentrating on your greenhouse? Thank you."
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Old 17th Sep 2010, 17:41
  #2066 (permalink)  
 
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I think that many of the "normal" cabin crew are not particularly interested in or motivated by the BASSA leadership. I think that many of the "normal" crew see the value of being in a trade union that is the formally recognised negotiating body with BA. BASSA have over the years created an enviable set of T&Cs for their members.

Many crew believe that this will be sorted and when it is, they will still need a union to protect them in the small things, a place to go for guidance and assistance if they have a legitimate dispute with the company, say over absence or some such. BASSA, like most unions is not all bad. The leadership are way off base in this current dispute but that in itself does not negate the positive benefits of being in a TU.

There is no sensible alternative for CC, the PCCC is a toothless and faceless thing at the moment and can do nothing to materially assist any potential member as BA does not recognise them.

BASSA may well need reform and I think that it's constitution is deeply flawed - a show of hands can postpone elections. Even during the WWII we had elections and Churchill was thrown out - so there is no democratic reason to not hold elections. DH is holding onto power and influence undemocratically but that is a matter for the future.

Leaving BASSA right now may well be throwing the baby out with the bathwater, leaving crew exposed in industrial matters but also allowing the union to become ever more extreme. Others though, are just apathetic.
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Old 17th Sep 2010, 17:52
  #2067 (permalink)  
 
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IMO, a neat summary, Juan.

There's nowhere else for them to go, and they feel a need for some 'employee protection outfit'. Which is fine.

Whether the Company needs BASSA, and a collective of union radicals and over-paid part-time workers, is a different issue.
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Old 17th Sep 2010, 18:58
  #2068 (permalink)  
 
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Something that is unclear to me is why cabin crew could not resign from BASSA, but then join another branch of Unite. I can understand the problems with joining a seperate union like GMB as BA do not recognise them within the bargaining group, but surely the folk who are hacked off with BASSA could either join CC89 or indeed the LHR branch that the rest of the BA workforce are members of. Unite would still be recognised so it wouldn't alter anything there and the probability is that there would be a better set of reps to deal with and a more reasonable executive. .
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Old 17th Sep 2010, 19:32
  #2069 (permalink)  
 
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Juan,

Winston Churchill lost the election in July 1945, after the war in Europe had been won. He went on to win the election in 1951 and retired from politics in 1955.
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Old 17th Sep 2010, 22:15
  #2070 (permalink)  
 
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Hi Neptunus Rex,

The war in Europe had been won, but the war in the East had not. In 1945 Britain was still very much at the heart of of global empire much of which was in the East. Britain was still very much still at war. The Election of 1945 was held (for the most part) on 5th July, the first atomic bomb was not dropped until 6th August. As far as the British public were aware, at the time of the election Britain was still very much engaged in a World War. What was your point?
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Old 17th Sep 2010, 22:20
  #2071 (permalink)  
 
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I was 13 years old when Churchill lost the election._ And so far as I was concerned the war was still on and Attlee was PM when the Japanese surrendered.
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Old 18th Sep 2010, 03:41
  #2072 (permalink)  
 
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£ is easy

pcat160,

Try keying in ‘Alt 156’ to bring up the GBP currency symbol: £.
For hundreds of other non-keyboard symbols and hieroglyphics, Google 'ASCII Symbols'
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Old 18th Sep 2010, 05:33
  #2073 (permalink)  
 
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Juan and notlangley
You are both correct, of course. I think it is a matter of perception, which is one of the most significant factors in politics. People in Britain in 1945 wanted social change, so Atlees slogan about "not going back to the 1930s" struck the right chord. Atlee had been Deputy Prime Minister under Churchill and had served with distinction in the Army in WW1, so was seen as a capable and honest leader. Churchill had led the winning side in the war. Although he was defeated at the ballot box, he retained the affection and admiration of the people.

DH, LaLa et al have not won their war; they long ago snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. As you say, Juan, reform is needed.
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Old 18th Sep 2010, 07:08
  #2074 (permalink)  
 
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Some time since I last visited this discussion. Nothing seems to have changed much, other than DH appears to be reaching the end of the rope provided to "hang himself with"

I too am confused by the lack of action by "normal" Bassa members in allowing themsleves to be led down a delusional and destructive path. I can understand their need for recognised representation, but staying in BASSA is only feeding its leaderships ego and matyrdom personae.
At one point I could Sympathise with BASSA members still in the union but against it's course of action, now i cannot. Sheep to the slaughter.
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Old 18th Sep 2010, 07:39
  #2075 (permalink)  
 
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Cults

As is normal with cult leaders Holley considers himself above the law, as do his followers.
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Old 18th Sep 2010, 08:34
  #2076 (permalink)  
 
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Atlee had been Deputy Prime Minister
When I was a boy he was called Attlee or Clement Attlee - never Atlee.
Clement Attlee appeared to us after the 1950 election as a tired and exhausted man - and that was the most important factor in the 1951 elections._ The Labour government had run out of steam and the alternative was the Conservatives.
I have no connections with airlines except as passenger._ This is why I read this thread becaue I expect that those airline people who know what they are talking about can answer the questions of PAX like me.
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Old 18th Sep 2010, 09:04
  #2077 (permalink)  
 
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I too am confused by the lack of action by "normal" Bassa members in allowing themsleves to be led down a delusional and destructive path. I can understand their need for recognised representation, but staying in BASSA is only feeding its leaderships ego and matyrdom personae.
At one point I could Sympathise with BASSA members still in the union but against it's course of action, now i cannot. Sheep to the slaughter.
Never underestimate the power of apathy. Most crew are just not "engaged" in this dispute. Many cannot even be bothered to vote in the ballots on IA. Taking a positive act like leaving the union is just too much hassle for many crew. This is a modern British malaise - how many could not be bothered to vote at the last general election? Yes they will pick up their mobiles and vote for the X-Factor, but to get involved in stuff that actually affects them is beyond the interest level of many in society.
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Old 18th Sep 2010, 09:30
  #2078 (permalink)  
 
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Many crew believe that this will be sorted and when it is, they will still need a union to protect them in the small things, a place to go for guidance and assistance if they have a legitimate dispute with the company, say over absence or some such. BASSA, like most unions is not all bad. The leadership are way off base in this current dispute but that in itself does not negate the positive benefits of being in a TU.

There is no sensible alternative for CC, the PCCC is a toothless and faceless thing at the moment and can do nothing to materially assist any potential member as BA does not recognise them.
This is untrue and incorrect.

BASSA have already reneged by not assisting non-striking crew who have needed representation in, for example, attendance meetings, etc. The reps are "too busy" to assist. BASSA are, it appears, only now supporting those who went on strike. There is no benefit whatsoever for non-striking crew still remaining in BASSA, they are wasting their money and are now simply funding this dispute. The sooner the finances are cut from BASSA, the better for all of us.

By contrast the PCCC are willing and able, to attend meetings with colleagues, and will do so in our own time, if necessary. Any colleague can attend with another, so BA could not refuse. Additionally, we can now refer crew who have suffered an accident or injury at work to a solicitors for free legal assistance. We have our first case ongoing so we are assisting materially.

We are doing everything we can, in our own time, and at our own expense, to assist our fellow colleagues in finding a better way forward out of this cesspit that BASSA have plunged us all into, so it is frustrating to see sweeping generalisations such as:

There is no sensible alternative for CC, the PCCC is a toothless and faceless thing at the moment and can do nothing to materially assist any potential member as BA does not recognise them.
The law states that when we have 40% of the membership, we can apply to BA for recognition. It is only when people leave BASSA, and cut off the funding to this utterly ineffectual organisation and join the PCCC that we will be able to move forward. Everything has to start somewhere, this is the beginning for the PCCC and like most organisations, we will grow as people realise the benefits.

Knocking those of us that are trying to do something about this dire situation serves no purpose in this dispute. The statement about apathy is more correct. Thank goodness we are not all apathetic to what is happening.

I am BA cabin crew and this is my own view and not that of BA.
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Old 18th Sep 2010, 10:26
  #2079 (permalink)  
 
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Actually the GMB do have a recognition agreement with BA for cabin crew. However it has not been implemented for many, many years there used to be an Air Hostesses Association which was a branch of the GMB and had a seat at the ACC NSP.

Whether they would want to enter the boiler room at the moment is, of course, understandable. I can see a new force emerging at some point in the future be it GMB or PCCC as cabin crew will still need reprentation.

BASSA is a spent force and totally discredited it only needs a little more time for this to sink in.
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Old 18th Sep 2010, 10:50
  #2080 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Posted by Juan Tugoh
Never underestimate the power of apathy. Most crew are just not "engaged" in this dispute. Many cannot even be bothered to vote in the ballots on IA. Taking a positive act like leaving the union is just too much hassle for many crew. This is a modern British malaise - how many could not be bothered to vote at the last general election? Yes they will pick up their mobiles and vote for the X-Factor, but to get involved in stuff that actually affects them is beyond the interest level of many in society.
I think the engagement is there, however it is one sided and it is only with BASSA who they see as God. BASSA can do no wrong, why would they, they are crew themselves and why wouldn't they care about fellow crew or have their interests at heart as it affects them all.

I've been away all week and on observation, you need just one rotten egg to spoil the rest in the basket. One miserable militant who will rile things and try to influence others.
Crew are scared, too scared still, to say that they came to work so what hope is there that they'll stand up against the BASSA leadership, we've all seen what happens to those who dare. They are bullied, harassed and being on a nightstop on your own can be lonely for the younger crew if not included.
Some crew who came to work even, CSDs and Pursers don't have the guts to say they came to work, they all want to have a quiet life which is sad. As I myself and many others have said said, it is a cult and they cult will be stay strong until either BASSA is broken or the militants leave the company.
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