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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II

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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II

Old 2nd Sep 2010, 11:50
  #1741 (permalink)  
 
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ChicoG - I agree with what AO has stated. I have spent a fair amount of time searching for an ET case for DH and have not found it. But if you have seen evidence of a fair dismissal, is it in the public domain?
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Old 2nd Sep 2010, 11:53
  #1742 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ChicoG View Post
It was fair enough when the union agreed it. What has changed?
A massive industrial dispute, not seen since the 1970's if you believe what you read on here.
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Old 2nd Sep 2010, 12:05
  #1743 (permalink)  
 
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Not a final result by any means, but previously posted here:

Duncan Holley's application to Watford Employment Tribunal for reinstatement was dismissed today. Holley had applied to be reinstated pending a full hearing of his unfair dismissal claim against BA claiming that the sole or principal reason for his dismissal was his trade union membership and activities. He asked the Tribunal to order the continuation of his employment pending a full hearing of his case. BA claimed that the reason for the dismissal was Holley's refusal to go to work when rostered on a number of times in December.

Judge Ryan denied the request saying he felt it was more likely than not that BA would demonstrate at trial that Mr Holley's dismissal was because of his refusal to come to work to perform his rostered duties and his refusal to attend meetings with his manager. Amongst other things he said "The claimant is simply not entitled to take into his own hands the decision whether to work or not".
Which implies to me that it's more than likely that he will fail at tribunal if he bothers going that far - something else I'm not sure about.
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Old 2nd Sep 2010, 12:06
  #1744 (permalink)  
 
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"A massive industrial dispute, not seen since the 1970's if you believe what you read on here."

Or a hissy fit orchestrated by an incompetent union that has failed miserably to represent the interests of its' members.

Also if you believe what you read on here.
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Old 2nd Sep 2010, 12:09
  #1745 (permalink)  
 
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Whilst looking, found this:

Branch secretary Duncan Holley, said: 'We are looking for the green light for a strike ballot next week, which would encompass the Christmas period and there is every likelihood we will be out then.'

The dispute was originally over BA's 'survival' plans to slash costs. Most of the key issues have since been resolved over months of gruelling negotiations.

But the Unite union said the suspensions and sackings were unjustified. It warned that a renewed strike ballot was 'inevitable' unless there was a swift resolution of issues.

BA said the vast majority of staff who had been suspended were now back at work, although at least 13 have been sacked for 'serious cases of misconduct', subject to appeal.

It comes ahead of a mass meeting of BA cabin crew at Kempton Park race course near Sunbury-on-Thames next Monday, September 6.

BA was up 1.2p at 211p.
Good luck with that one, Holley.

And ironically, given that we are discussing the schism between Unite and BASSA:

British Airways’ cabin crew union, Unite, said talks will take place next week to try to end the long-running dispute with the airline.

A spokesman for Unite said talks were being planned for next week but it could not specify the day.

He denied reports that the union was planning to ballot for more strike action over the half-term holidays or at Christmas.

“There are no plans for any strike ballots as we’re still trying to resolve the outstanding issues,” he said.”

Last edited by ChicoG; 2nd Sep 2010 at 12:33.
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Old 2nd Sep 2010, 13:11
  #1746 (permalink)  
 
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As an individual who has attended numerous Arbitrations regarding different issues I can state that, in my opinion, they most certainly do add another layer to any procedure.

The question isn't one of "...if you have nothing to hide, why not?" but more "..if you are following an agreed upon procedure that has worked consistently in the past, why?".

We are speaking of only 12/13 individuals here, with no public protest providing specifics of unfairness. Even Mr. Holley made a public statement that he made a conscious decision to repeatedly not report for rostered duty.

To create a separate class of employee based upon their Union membership is inappropriate and unnecessary.
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Old 2nd Sep 2010, 13:17
  #1747 (permalink)  
 
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ChicoG:

Interesting post..lol.

Do you get the idea Unite have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA UNDER THE SUN WHAT BASSA IS DOING?!!

Incredible.
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Old 2nd Sep 2010, 13:26
  #1748 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Diplome View Post
As an individual who has attended numerous Arbitrations regarding different issues I can state that, in my opinion, they most certainly do add another layer to any procedure.
This was what I have been talking about -

Acas - The Acas Arbitration Scheme

Whether this is what Unite had in mind, or just mediation in existing company processes, is where I may have misread the situation.
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Old 2nd Sep 2010, 13:27
  #1749 (permalink)  
 
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From the Trade Union and Labour Relations Act;

(1) An employer shall permit an employee of his who is a member of an independent trade union recognised by the employer in respect of that description of employee to take time off during his working hours for the purpose of taking part in—
(a) any activities of the union, and
(b) any activities in relation to which the employee is acting as a representative of the union.
(2) The right conferred by subsection (1) does not extend to activities which themselves consist of industrial action, whether or not in contemplation or furtherance of a trade dispute.
Perhaps the outcome of the full hearing will depend on whether the judge feels that DH was taking part in industrial action when he refused to work.

Dave
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Old 2nd Sep 2010, 13:34
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An employer shall permit an employee of his who is a member of an independent trade union recognised by the employer in respect of that description of employee to take time off during his working hours for the purpose of taking part in—
(a) any activities of the union, and
(b) any activities in relation to which the employee is acting as a representative of the union.
It also doesn't quantify just how much time off said employee is allowed to take.
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Old 2nd Sep 2010, 13:35
  #1751 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Airclues View Post
Perhaps the outcome of the full hearing will depend on whether the judge feels that DH was taking part in industrial action when he refused to work.
Or that he was carrying out his role as a rep and allowed reasonable time off to carry out that work.
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Old 2nd Sep 2010, 13:42
  #1752 (permalink)  
 
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Litebulbs:

I may be mistaken, and will have to do some searching, but I seem to remember that what Unite wanted was an Acas representation present as an observer during the BA proceedings.

I'll see what I can find later...but I don't believe that Unite was asking for an ACAS arbitration process to replace the BA process.
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Old 2nd Sep 2010, 13:52
  #1753 (permalink)  
 
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The issue with Duncan taking time off arose after BASSA decided to withdraw from all the company forums, apart from health and safety. In Duncan's messages about his suspension he has made it clear that he thinks that union duties take precedence over the job he is employed to do and he hadn't done himself any favours in handing evidence to BA on a plate for his hearing next year.
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Old 2nd Sep 2010, 13:55
  #1754 (permalink)  
 
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Diplome -It was the company that offered to let ACAS observe the hearings. Unite wanted ACAS to act in an arbitration role.
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Old 2nd Sep 2010, 14:05
  #1755 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LD12986 View Post
The issue with Duncan taking time off arose after BASSA decided to withdraw from all the company forums, apart from health and safety. In Duncan's messages about his suspension he has made it clear that he thinks that union duties take precedence over the job he is employed to do and he hadn't done himself any favours in handing evidence to BA on a plate for his hearing next year.
He does appear to be giving himself enough rope to hang himself, before any day in court.
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Old 2nd Sep 2010, 15:49
  #1756 (permalink)  
 
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Who wants to talk about balance of probabilities? How many cases of gross misconduct would you generally see in a community of over 10000 in a year?
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Old 2nd Sep 2010, 16:03
  #1757 (permalink)  
 
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LD12986: Thank you...saved me from the search. Always a good thing

Litebulb: I would guess that much would depend upon what sort of community you were speaking of...I'm not sure what area I would compare an excited little nest like BASSA to.
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Old 2nd Sep 2010, 16:09
  #1758 (permalink)  
 
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Diplome

Ok, I am only going by figures on the other thread, but say roughly 30.
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Old 2nd Sep 2010, 16:34
  #1759 (permalink)  
 
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If your figures for the "norm" are correct Litebulbs (and I'm in no position to dispute them), would you say that the "extra" disciplinaries have arisen primarily due to a more stringent line by BA through this dispute or through more unreasonable behavior by the staff concerned as a result of their dispute or a combination of these?

Personally, I dont see how it can be assessed without details of the alleged misdemeanors.
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Old 2nd Sep 2010, 16:37
  #1760 (permalink)  
 
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How Things Should Be Done

FYI

I want to extend my sincere congratulations to the Unite members and shop stewards from Corus on Teesside on a great conclusion to their campaign to save their plant from closure. I want also to single out my colleague Terry Pye our National Officer for his superb leadership throughout the crisis that threatened the future of 2,000 jobs there.
Over the last six months Terry and the team have worked quietly and patiently to get agreement with Corus to sell the plant and then go onto secure a buyer for the business. The campaign was based on a clear strategy that involved organising the workforce, winning the support of the local community and influencing local politicians.

There was no full frontal assault on the company in the media. There was no public sabre rattling so the media were never given an opportunity to divide the community. All the focus was on saving the jobs and the local economy.

The sale to the Thai steel producer SSI is great news for the workforce on Teesside and is even more glorious given that the deal was done at no expense to other Corus workers. This year’s pay settlement at the steel giant was 3.2% well above the average for this year.

Ironically this success story will never be afforded legendary status. It wasn’t a romantic glorious defeat, with slogans and marches and strikes and thousands of column inches devoted to the notoriety of an individual. It was just a clear example of Unite at its best and a model for the Unite I want to see develop in every sector. In future we need to be disciplined, strategic and focused on winning for our members.

Les Bayliss


Bit of a drift, sorry.
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