BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II
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This dispute should never have been about what Unite WANT.
It should never have been about what BASSA rep CSDs WANT.
But that's what it's about.
Instead of being about what the company and its employees both NEED.
Shame on both parties mentioned above for screwing the company and your members!
It should never have been about what BASSA rep CSDs WANT.
But that's what it's about.
Instead of being about what the company and its employees both NEED.
Shame on both parties mentioned above for screwing the company and your members!
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Actually the dispute is about what those who vote want.....
Two things wrong with fighting your IR battles in the press....Forums like this that spawn lower deck lawyers with all sorts of clap trap and a harder road to reach a resolution.
As I understand it the next ballot is only a consultative ballot that has no legal bindings whatsoever.
Two things wrong with fighting your IR battles in the press....Forums like this that spawn lower deck lawyers with all sorts of clap trap and a harder road to reach a resolution.
As I understand it the next ballot is only a consultative ballot that has no legal bindings whatsoever.
call 100,
if you have a problem with the veracity of my posts, do please let me know.
If it is not my posts that are causing you a problem, let the other posters know.
ta
AO
if you have a problem with the veracity of my posts, do please let me know.
If it is not my posts that are causing you a problem, let the other posters know.
ta
AO
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Two things wrong with fighting your IR battles in the press....Forums like this that spawn lower deck lawyers with all sorts of clap trap and a harder road to reach a resolution.
As I understand it the next ballot is only a consultative ballot that has no legal bindings whatsoever.
As I understand it the next ballot is only a consultative ballot that has no legal bindings whatsoever.
BTW call100,
Actually the dispute is about what those who vote want.....
It's still going (if you can call it that) because they continue to foment unrest among their members to serve their own agenda, by way of a litany of lies and half truths.
It's failing because most of those voting had no idea that their union were going to make such an issue out of something so minor (so minor that they had already agreed that Gatwick could do it), and were wrongly advised that the company would cave at the first sign of IA (much as they were wrongly advised to ignore BA's statements regarding ST, as "it would be returned very quickly").
I think that the next strike ballot will be a dismal failure, as many people realise that what the union deadheads are squealing about is not worth fighting for; plus, on the big points, they don't appear to have a clue what they are on about, or are simply lying to their members.
But I think it's reached the point where it doesn't matter to BA any more. They have probably achieved far more than they had ever hoped for, thanks to BASSA's amateurish actions and UNITE's 70's-style comedy trade unionism. "Brothers! Comrades! All out!", etc.
Last edited by ChicoG; 29th Jun 2010 at 06:30.
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Incredulous!
I am a new contributor to this forum but have watched the BA strike and the PPrune forums relating to it with interest and a mounting sense of incredulity. At the beginning I was bemused by the over-reaction to the company's decision to remove one staff member at a time of major cutbacks and world recession. Were they not just managing in difficult times as best as they could? I thought they did rather well as no-one seemed to lose their job unless they wanted to and no-one seemed to have a pay cut (although it now seems that other branches of the airline HAVE taken pay cuts)
I then felt slightly sorry for the cabin crew who seemed to me to being completely mislead by some very selfish union reps who I could only surmise had their own agenda. I have since learned from these forums that a lot of the reps are apparently the ones who were affected by these changes so a BIT of self interest there perhaps?
I lost a lot of sympathy when I saw the ridiculous displays from Bedfont where you have supposedly underpaid workers with flashy cars drinking Pimms with their children being provided for with bouncy castles and the like as if they were on a day out in the sunshine rather than striking for a genuine cause. I also thought it irresponsible for these parents to be parading their children in this way. With the sheer amount of obviously unsympathetic responses from the rest of the company, the media and the general public, I am staggered that this strike has ANY cabin crew at all who still support it. Yet reading some of the posts on the cabin crew forum from AVA Hannah (and her predecessors who seem to have taken a back seat now) I am dumbfounded!! AVA Hannah apparently lives in S Africa and commutes to Heathrow!! I thought it was bad that Liz Maloney lived in US but this is getting silly!! No wonder BA are in trouble!! How can these staff afford to do this? This is a job that you would expect to find being done by unskilled manual workers. It requires a few WEEKS of training!! Even with subsidised travel I would not expect to see even qualified professionals like nurses, teachers and social workers (who complete a 3 YEAR training) commute from so far afield. The cabin crew earn FAR too much if they can afford to do this. And now AVA Hannah thinks it is a disgrace because she has had to buy a ticket for £500 because she has lost the subsidised travel that enabled her to get to her (quite obviously overpaid) job having been warned in advance that this is what would happen. I really do not understand what calibre of staff BA have if they cannot work out that it was perhaps a bit foolish to go on strike in these circumstances.
So are these people brainwashed? Is this the sort of mentality that allows cults to thrive? I reckon a psychologist would have a field day!! It's all a bit much for me to work out. I can't decide if these crew need medical help, an education or a kick up the backside!!
What IS really going on here? I read somewhere that a lot of the strikers are Hobby Jobbers (lovely term!) and that they have great part-time contracts that mean that they hardly go to work at all anyway and other incomes so are not dependent on their incomes from BA. If this is the case, this continuing dispute is just plainly immoral because there are thousands of BA staff who are working hard to try to make up for the actions of these few. They DO have families who are dependent on their salaries from BA (unlike those parading their children at Bedfont) and will really suffer if BA go under.
So all in all I have decided that it is this latter category that I need to support and so will continue to fly BA just so the likes of AVA Hannah do not succeed in jeopardising the futures of the rest of the company. So this is one passenger (not keen on the SLF terminology by the way. I think it is disrespectful!) who is still, despite the best efforts of the few, Backing BA!!
I then felt slightly sorry for the cabin crew who seemed to me to being completely mislead by some very selfish union reps who I could only surmise had their own agenda. I have since learned from these forums that a lot of the reps are apparently the ones who were affected by these changes so a BIT of self interest there perhaps?
I lost a lot of sympathy when I saw the ridiculous displays from Bedfont where you have supposedly underpaid workers with flashy cars drinking Pimms with their children being provided for with bouncy castles and the like as if they were on a day out in the sunshine rather than striking for a genuine cause. I also thought it irresponsible for these parents to be parading their children in this way. With the sheer amount of obviously unsympathetic responses from the rest of the company, the media and the general public, I am staggered that this strike has ANY cabin crew at all who still support it. Yet reading some of the posts on the cabin crew forum from AVA Hannah (and her predecessors who seem to have taken a back seat now) I am dumbfounded!! AVA Hannah apparently lives in S Africa and commutes to Heathrow!! I thought it was bad that Liz Maloney lived in US but this is getting silly!! No wonder BA are in trouble!! How can these staff afford to do this? This is a job that you would expect to find being done by unskilled manual workers. It requires a few WEEKS of training!! Even with subsidised travel I would not expect to see even qualified professionals like nurses, teachers and social workers (who complete a 3 YEAR training) commute from so far afield. The cabin crew earn FAR too much if they can afford to do this. And now AVA Hannah thinks it is a disgrace because she has had to buy a ticket for £500 because she has lost the subsidised travel that enabled her to get to her (quite obviously overpaid) job having been warned in advance that this is what would happen. I really do not understand what calibre of staff BA have if they cannot work out that it was perhaps a bit foolish to go on strike in these circumstances.
So are these people brainwashed? Is this the sort of mentality that allows cults to thrive? I reckon a psychologist would have a field day!! It's all a bit much for me to work out. I can't decide if these crew need medical help, an education or a kick up the backside!!
What IS really going on here? I read somewhere that a lot of the strikers are Hobby Jobbers (lovely term!) and that they have great part-time contracts that mean that they hardly go to work at all anyway and other incomes so are not dependent on their incomes from BA. If this is the case, this continuing dispute is just plainly immoral because there are thousands of BA staff who are working hard to try to make up for the actions of these few. They DO have families who are dependent on their salaries from BA (unlike those parading their children at Bedfont) and will really suffer if BA go under.
So all in all I have decided that it is this latter category that I need to support and so will continue to fly BA just so the likes of AVA Hannah do not succeed in jeopardising the futures of the rest of the company. So this is one passenger (not keen on the SLF terminology by the way. I think it is disrespectful!) who is still, despite the best efforts of the few, Backing BA!!
I see the commuting striker on the other thread remains unhappy. Not surprising seeing she is facing a £500 ticket cost every time she reports for duty.
I do hope Duncan Holley & Co realise just how much they have let down their members over their unjustified initial promise that ST would be returned "in about 5 minutes" and then making it worse by recommending rejection of a deal that returned ST to commuters.
If I had been a commuting striker, I would be considering legal action against the BASSA leadership.
I do hope Duncan Holley & Co realise just how much they have let down their members over their unjustified initial promise that ST would be returned "in about 5 minutes" and then making it worse by recommending rejection of a deal that returned ST to commuters.
If I had been a commuting striker, I would be considering legal action against the BASSA leadership.
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I think it's an interesting assumption that Ava Hannah is a real person rather than a Bedfont Keyboard Warrior.
I don't wish to get into attempts to personally identify posters, but on the other thread, one BASSA militant departs, and lo and behold a newly registered BASSA militant appears with the time to compose long, yet illogical, responses to what are generally reasonable questions.
If there really is a member of LHR CC who commutes from JNB, and who relies on ST to commute, and who went on strike anyway in the belief that BA couldn't or wouldn't follow through with their threat, then I have zero sympathy for their plight - or in fact, in an acronym littered posting, my sympathy level is at is SFA.
I don't wish to get into attempts to personally identify posters, but on the other thread, one BASSA militant departs, and lo and behold a newly registered BASSA militant appears with the time to compose long, yet illogical, responses to what are generally reasonable questions.
If there really is a member of LHR CC who commutes from JNB, and who relies on ST to commute, and who went on strike anyway in the belief that BA couldn't or wouldn't follow through with their threat, then I have zero sympathy for their plight - or in fact, in an acronym littered posting, my sympathy level is at is SFA.
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Mocamps
As I understand it, this is not about reducing the aircraft team of CC by one person - its about doing it without the agreement of BASSA. It could easily have been about 'imposing' something else which was not agreed by BASSA? - however this particular imposition does appear to have hit a nerve with the BASSA leadership
bizdev
bizdev
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Thank you Bizdev.
Does that mean that the management have tp get the approval of the union before making ANY small changes? Oh dear!
I have now seen that Ava Hannah is complaining that her commute from S Africa is difficult!! I was just going to get drawn in by wondering whose choice that is to commute and it suddenly occurred to me that maybe I am the one who is being naive here as i don't usually contribute to these sorts of forums.
Could Ava Hannah REALLY be a sympathiser of BA who is trying to wind people up by appearing to take an obviously ridiculous stand of expecting the company to make it easy for her to commute from S Africa? I mean, surely cabin crew do not REALLY commute from that distance,do they? On a cabin crew wage? I think maybe that was the reaction the person wanted and that maybe this is a bit of game-playing on the forum and I have fallen for it! After all, the only cause Ava Hannah is helping is the BA non-strikers as her posts seem absolutely outrageous to a bystander like me.
Moderators, are any steps taken to ensure that people are genuinely what they say they are?
I think I should probably revert to my previous position of watching with incredulity from the sidelines in case I start to look silly!!
Does that mean that the management have tp get the approval of the union before making ANY small changes? Oh dear!
I have now seen that Ava Hannah is complaining that her commute from S Africa is difficult!! I was just going to get drawn in by wondering whose choice that is to commute and it suddenly occurred to me that maybe I am the one who is being naive here as i don't usually contribute to these sorts of forums.
Could Ava Hannah REALLY be a sympathiser of BA who is trying to wind people up by appearing to take an obviously ridiculous stand of expecting the company to make it easy for her to commute from S Africa? I mean, surely cabin crew do not REALLY commute from that distance,do they? On a cabin crew wage? I think maybe that was the reaction the person wanted and that maybe this is a bit of game-playing on the forum and I have fallen for it! After all, the only cause Ava Hannah is helping is the BA non-strikers as her posts seem absolutely outrageous to a bystander like me.
Moderators, are any steps taken to ensure that people are genuinely what they say they are?
I think I should probably revert to my previous position of watching with incredulity from the sidelines in case I start to look silly!!
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The nub of the matter; it is about crews having a CSM on board that has to work. In all the threads, on all the pprune forums, there is no one that has declared a case for CSM's not doing cabin service duties (with any reasonable argument)... Speaks volumes?
Bassa's gripe? we didn't suggest/agree it; BA imposed it.
Of course this has then led into, we strike because we have lost a,b,c and probably d (New/mixed/start again Ba fleet) when it is introduced.
Bassa's gripe? we didn't suggest/agree it; BA imposed it.
Of course this has then led into, we strike because we have lost a,b,c and probably d (New/mixed/start again Ba fleet) when it is introduced.
CC commuting "rest"
CC commuting "rest"
As the BA CC continuously claim their importance in areas outside the drinks, meals and duty free service, (and there are many examples of this importance), I do hope that each and every BA CC member is keeping a detailed personal record that their rest period, following their commute, is a reasonable length of time.
Guessing that the duties outside the service area require the same alertness as, say,driving a car, BA CC might like to know that large multi-nationals now ban staff from driving for 48 hours after taking a long-haul flight.
Their lawyers have told them that is reasonable rest.
I suspect that the nice people from the Belgrano will be looking in to this shortly...........................as many of them are, I suspect, avid readers of pprune.
As the BA CC continuously claim their importance in areas outside the drinks, meals and duty free service, (and there are many examples of this importance), I do hope that each and every BA CC member is keeping a detailed personal record that their rest period, following their commute, is a reasonable length of time.
Guessing that the duties outside the service area require the same alertness as, say,driving a car, BA CC might like to know that large multi-nationals now ban staff from driving for 48 hours after taking a long-haul flight.
Their lawyers have told them that is reasonable rest.
I suspect that the nice people from the Belgrano will be looking in to this shortly...........................as many of them are, I suspect, avid readers of pprune.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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Moderators, are any steps taken to ensure that people are genuinely what they say they are?
As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, or sciolists*, to elicit certain reactions.
*"sciolist"... Noun, archaic. "a person who pretends to be knowledgeable and well informed".
*"sciolist"... Noun, archaic. "a person who pretends to be knowledgeable and well informed".
Some of us have been around a while so our credibility can be vouched for (to a certain degree). Others who have made only a dozen or so posts, perhaps less so.
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Crew - both flight and cabin crew - are commuting from all over the world.
Most of them do - however - live in Europe and generally in Spain, Italy, France and Switzerland.
I do know of crew who commute from South Africa, Hong Kong, Angola, Thailand, United Arab Emirates and all the way from Australia.
Most of them do - however - live in Europe and generally in Spain, Italy, France and Switzerland.
I do know of crew who commute from South Africa, Hong Kong, Angola, Thailand, United Arab Emirates and all the way from Australia.
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Ava
On the other forum you infer that WW should have resigned after 'the fiasco' of T5. It may well have been just that but I think you over-egg his role in it for your own ends. As a Joe Public, it looked to me that there was a lot wrong with procedures and systems outwith his control. I am sure that there might have been things that the airline could have managed better in the lead in phase but to credit him with the blame for the fiasco, is wide of the mark IMHO.
If Joe Public can make a reasoned evaluation of what the scenario was, looking in from the outside, I think you should be even better positioned to do so and that you simply wish to take any opportunity to criticise the man who currently is trying to ensure future viability of BA but in doing so, impacts on your own lifestyle choices.
Ted
If Joe Public can make a reasoned evaluation of what the scenario was, looking in from the outside, I think you should be even better positioned to do so and that you simply wish to take any opportunity to criticise the man who currently is trying to ensure future viability of BA but in doing so, impacts on your own lifestyle choices.
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I merely pointed out the disadvantages of fighting a dispute in the public eye. If the cap fits wear it.....
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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On the subject of staff travel some interesting points rear their heads from time to time.
From what I have been told, on a recent internal BA forum with the head of IFCS, the question of the return of ST was raised.
He pointed out that BA had written to Unite with the following suggestion: -
When the dispute is settled ST would be returned to all with a revised seniority date
ST for those that leave BA at any point in the future would be in accordance with the booklet, with the start date for ST being the date of joining BA
ST would be returned with existing seniority on one fixed route for commuters
This offer is still on the table and is dependent on there being no further strikes over this issue.
There is no evidence that Unite have informed their members of this offer!!
From what I have been told, on a recent internal BA forum with the head of IFCS, the question of the return of ST was raised.
He pointed out that BA had written to Unite with the following suggestion: -
When the dispute is settled ST would be returned to all with a revised seniority date
ST for those that leave BA at any point in the future would be in accordance with the booklet, with the start date for ST being the date of joining BA
ST would be returned with existing seniority on one fixed route for commuters
This offer is still on the table and is dependent on there being no further strikes over this issue.
There is no evidence that Unite have informed their members of this offer!!
Could anyone currently a member of BASSA enlighten us as to when the next council election is? Or have the current splendid leadership managed to secure an indefinite extension of their powers?
Interestingly, no one has yet denied the scurrilous rumour that most of them have been off sick while the rank and file lose their staff travel. It would be useful to know whether we were misinformed.
SB
Interestingly, no one has yet denied the scurrilous rumour that most of them have been off sick while the rank and file lose their staff travel. It would be useful to know whether we were misinformed.
SB
Lots of posts today from the duty BASSA poster, currently Ava. Her views on most things seem to be sadly misguided.
and when accused of having no experience of the real world responded:
If Ava thinks the current outside world is the same as a seasonal job undertaken at least 17 years ago she's in for a big surprise...
I have worked for this company for over 17 years
Some seasonal jobs during school. Don't try to make me appear as I have no contact with the 'outside' world because I do
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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It also seems that a lot of the strikers are unhappy finding they have not been paid whilst on strike. With some actually getting a minus figure on their wage slips.
I am sure they were comforted by the 4 figure sum one of their collegues complained about getting, despite claiming to be on strike.
I am sure they were comforted by the 4 figure sum one of their collegues complained about getting, despite claiming to be on strike.
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I'm not understanding the logic of "Ava" on the CC board.
On one hand she's mad about having BA's salaries compared to others yet she keeps speaking of Mr. Walsh's salary in comparision to President Obama's.
There is a large section of the population in the U.S. that makes more than the President, as there is a large portion of individuals in the U.K. that make more than the Prime Minister....and its still not relevant to BASSA's disagreement with BA.
Amazing that all of this rhetoric, all these destructive side issues, came out of a simple staffing decision that operates smoothly out of Gatwick.
On one hand she's mad about having BA's salaries compared to others yet she keeps speaking of Mr. Walsh's salary in comparision to President Obama's.
There is a large section of the population in the U.S. that makes more than the President, as there is a large portion of individuals in the U.K. that make more than the Prime Minister....and its still not relevant to BASSA's disagreement with BA.
Amazing that all of this rhetoric, all these destructive side issues, came out of a simple staffing decision that operates smoothly out of Gatwick.