Flight Canx - Your Views Please
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: England
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Glad you had a safe and enjoyable journey, it still irks me to see how airlines including my own treat passengers when problems occur.
Have a safe onward journey and keep us posted
Have a safe onward journey and keep us posted
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The baggage may however fly on a later flight or even not at all if from Heathrow or Amsterdam
. The point is that the passenger cannot load a bomb and then avoid its consequences. Of course today that concept is relevant for some passengers 
.Several times my baggage has not flown with me: once we saw it sitting in the baggage cart at Aswan. Another time KLM delivered it 2 days later. The best was my wife's hand luggage that did the Gatwich-Guernsey flight 3 times although we only flew once - it was not her fault.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Slough, UK
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Bags don't have to fly with the owner - they must be accounted for! That's the subtle difference. For example, if the airline decides to put the bags on a later flight, no problem as long as the relevant paperwork is filled in and accounted for. The problem comes when a passenger checks in and doesn't board the flight and the bags do. THAT is a security risk!
Join Date: Dec 2006
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I'm not sure you will win your claim. You have already stated that they have offered you a reroute. The question of whether a 6 hour delay is a reasonable one is debateable but if it is the next BMI or LH flight I imagine it would be deamed to be. If they have options on their flights I would also giuess they wouldn't have to reroute you on their competitors.
All their options could be upto how they want to treat you including only going to LHR. But I don't think legally they have done anything wrong. You can argue whether morally or just for customer service if they should of offered move than they did. It willbe interesting to see what they say.
All their options could be upto how they want to treat you including only going to LHR. But I don't think legally they have done anything wrong. You can argue whether morally or just for customer service if they should of offered move than they did. It willbe interesting to see what they say.
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but if it is the next BMI or LH flight I imagine it would be deamed to be.
Even if it was, please explain why bmi cancelled the flight from Riyadh to London, which was not affected by the strike?
I disagree that it wil be interesting to see what bmi says; it is highly predictable.
What is more interesting is what the AUC will say.
Join Date: Aug 2006
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The reason bmi may have cancelled your RUH/LHR sector is because as posted by you on 23rd Feb -
That seems to indicate that you had no intention of taking this flight therefore any airline would cancel the seat in the hope of selling it again , makes commercial sense to me , or am I missing something?
I have accepted an involuntary refund from bmi, as they cannot fulfil the contract and have made alternative arrangements.
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am I missing something?
I wanted to take the RUH-LHR sector and bmi refused to allow this without me agreeing to a re-routing 6 hours later in the day.
bmi also refused to re-route me on to the BA flight that would have worked for me.
I offered to get off at London and get myself home, if bmi would refund the money paid for the LHR-MUC segment and bmi refused this too.
In other words, because bmi could not provide me with a flight to Munich within a reasonable time (and I would assert that 6 hours is not reasonable for a short haul journey), they decided to cancel both flights and I had no option but to accept that they did that and make alternative arrangements.
I bent over backwards to be flexible (via MUC at a reasonable time, get off at London and find my own way home) and bmi did not.
No doubt the airline will claim extraordinary circumstances, but if they do I will sue for the EU compensation.
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Was the ticket valid BD/LH only? If so it could not be transferred to BA
Was the ticket a through fare to MUC, in other word no stopover in LON? If so the fare would need to be recalculated without the MUC flight if you elected to travel to LHR only.
Because the alternative was not acceptable you agreed to a refund as you stated previously. Yes be annoyed at the situation but remember it was brought about by LH cancelling the LHR/MUC flight.
Was the ticket a through fare to MUC, in other word no stopover in LON? If so the fare would need to be recalculated without the MUC flight if you elected to travel to LHR only.
Because the alternative was not acceptable you agreed to a refund as you stated previously. Yes be annoyed at the situation but remember it was brought about by LH cancelling the LHR/MUC flight.
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This is getting tedious.
Here is the relevant extract from the EU directive
1. In case of cancellation of a flight, the passengers
concerned shall:
(a) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance
with Article 8; and
(b) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance
with Article 9(1)(a) and 9(2), as well as, in event of rerouting
when the reasonably expected time of departure of
the new flight is at least the day after the departure as it
was planned for the cancelled flight, the assistance specified
in Article 9(1)(b) and 9(1)(c); and
(c) have the right to compensation by the operating air carrier
in accordance with Article 7, unless:
(i) they are informed of the cancellation at least two
weeks before the scheduled time of departure; or
(ii) they are informed of the cancellation between two
weeks and seven days before the scheduled time of
departure and are offered re-routing, allowing them to
depart no more than two hours before the scheduled
time of departure and to reach their final destination
less than four hours after the scheduled time of arrival;
or
(iii) they are informed of the cancellation less than seven
days before the scheduled time of departure and are
offered re-routing, allowing them to depart no more
than one hour before the scheduled time of departure
and to reach their final destination less than two hours
after the scheduled time of arrival.
2. When passengers are informed of the cancellation, an
explanation shall be given concerning possible alternative transport.
3. An operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay
compensation in accordance with Article 7, if it can prove that
the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances
which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable
measures had been taken.
4. The burden of proof concerning the questions as to
whether and when the passenger has been informed of the
cancellation of the flight shall rest with the operating air
carrier.
Given that the LH strike had been known for some time, it is hardly an extraordinary circumstance for cancelling the Riyadh segment or indeed for failing to re-route to Munich.
I am afraid that, whayever you think, bmi's fare rules do not come into the equation.
Let me remind you, I did not have a contract with DLH, so it was up to bmi to resolve the matter in line with the EU directive.
This is getting tedious.
Here is the relevant extract from the EU directive
1. In case of cancellation of a flight, the passengers
concerned shall:
(a) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance
with Article 8; and
(b) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance
with Article 9(1)(a) and 9(2), as well as, in event of rerouting
when the reasonably expected time of departure of
the new flight is at least the day after the departure as it
was planned for the cancelled flight, the assistance specified
in Article 9(1)(b) and 9(1)(c); and
(c) have the right to compensation by the operating air carrier
in accordance with Article 7, unless:
(i) they are informed of the cancellation at least two
weeks before the scheduled time of departure; or
(ii) they are informed of the cancellation between two
weeks and seven days before the scheduled time of
departure and are offered re-routing, allowing them to
depart no more than two hours before the scheduled
time of departure and to reach their final destination
less than four hours after the scheduled time of arrival;
or
(iii) they are informed of the cancellation less than seven
days before the scheduled time of departure and are
offered re-routing, allowing them to depart no more
than one hour before the scheduled time of departure
and to reach their final destination less than two hours
after the scheduled time of arrival.
2. When passengers are informed of the cancellation, an
explanation shall be given concerning possible alternative transport.
3. An operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay
compensation in accordance with Article 7, if it can prove that
the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances
which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable
measures had been taken.
4. The burden of proof concerning the questions as to
whether and when the passenger has been informed of the
cancellation of the flight shall rest with the operating air
carrier.
Given that the LH strike had been known for some time, it is hardly an extraordinary circumstance for cancelling the Riyadh segment or indeed for failing to re-route to Munich.
I am afraid that, whayever you think, bmi's fare rules do not come into the equation.
Let me remind you, I did not have a contract with DLH, so it was up to bmi to resolve the matter in line with the EU directive.
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Still not sure
1a - The operating carrier of the LHR/MUC sector is LH. LH advised BD of the new flight and as BD were first carrier they were obliged to advise you the re-booking as offered by LH
1b - new flight was on same day
1c - operating carrier LH
2 - Was an explanation given?
3 - Strike by another carrier pretty exceptional circumstances
4 - It is all taped therefore proof is on file
The RUH/LHR was cancelled because you stated you wanted a refund as the alternative was unacceptable.
1a - The operating carrier of the LHR/MUC sector is LH. LH advised BD of the new flight and as BD were first carrier they were obliged to advise you the re-booking as offered by LH
1b - new flight was on same day
1c - operating carrier LH
2 - Was an explanation given?
3 - Strike by another carrier pretty exceptional circumstances
4 - It is all taped therefore proof is on file
The RUH/LHR was cancelled because you stated you wanted a refund as the alternative was unacceptable.
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For goodness sake...
1a, b and c refer to Article 8, so your points are not well directed. On the subjtec of re-routing note the EU's Question, frmo their Q&A document, #
2. The explanation given about alternative transport was, 'this is it, take it or leave it.'
3. I don't agree - note the EU Question 14: Can a strike be considered as an extraordinary circumstance?
Given that bmi's sub contractor went on strike (three days before, for one day only), and there was an alternative flight available with BA, I don't think that a small claims court will regard this as extraordinary, just my opinion.
Finally, I did not ask for a refund, I asked for a re-routing with BA, I then asked to use the ticket to London and then have a refund of the LHR MUC sector, to allow me to make my own way home.
bmi offered no other option but to accept a new connection leaving 6 hours after the original and arriving 6 hours afterwards, this was a non option and it did not comply with the EU directive.
Not only is it on tape, but I have a written audit trail via the travel agent.
The term 'involuntary cancellation' is used by the airline rep.
For goodness sake...
1a, b and c refer to Article 8, so your points are not well directed. On the subjtec of re-routing note the EU's Question, frmo their Q&A document, #
21: Does the flight, in cases of re-routing, have to be performed by the
original operating carrier?23
No. This flight does not necessarily need to be operated by the airline the passenger booked
with.
original operating carrier?23
No. This flight does not necessarily need to be operated by the airline the passenger booked
with.
Right to reimbursement or re-routing
1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall
be offered the choice between:
(a) — reimbursement within seven days, by the means
provided for in Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket
at the price at which it was bought, for the part or
parts of the journey not made, and for the part or parts
already made if the flight is no longer serving any
purpose in relation to the passenger's original travel
plan, together with, when relevant,
— a return flight to the first point of departure, at the
earliest opportunity;
(b) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their
final destination at the earliest opportunity; or
(c) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their
final destination at a later date at the passenger's convenience,
subject to availability of seats.
2. Paragraph 1(a) shall also apply to passengers whose
flights form part of a package, except for the right to reimbursement
where such right arises under Directive 90/314/EEC.
3. When, in the case where a town, city or region is served
by several airports, an operating air carrier offers a passenger a
flight to an airport alternative to that for which the booking
was made, the operating air carrier shall bear the cost of transferring
the passenger from that alternative airport either to that
for which the booking was made, or to another close-by destination
agreed with the passenger.
1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall
be offered the choice between:
(a) — reimbursement within seven days, by the means
provided for in Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket
at the price at which it was bought, for the part or
parts of the journey not made, and for the part or parts
already made if the flight is no longer serving any
purpose in relation to the passenger's original travel
plan, together with, when relevant,
— a return flight to the first point of departure, at the
earliest opportunity;
(b) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their
final destination at the earliest opportunity; or
(c) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their
final destination at a later date at the passenger's convenience,
subject to availability of seats.
2. Paragraph 1(a) shall also apply to passengers whose
flights form part of a package, except for the right to reimbursement
where such right arises under Directive 90/314/EEC.
3. When, in the case where a town, city or region is served
by several airports, an operating air carrier offers a passenger a
flight to an airport alternative to that for which the booking
was made, the operating air carrier shall bear the cost of transferring
the passenger from that alternative airport either to that
for which the booking was made, or to another close-by destination
agreed with the passenger.
3. I don't agree - note the EU Question 14: Can a strike be considered as an extraordinary circumstance?
Yes, under certain conditions. Recital 14 of the Regulation states that strikes can constitute extraordinary circumstances. A case-by-case assessment will remain crucial taking into account all relevant jurisprudence and legislation in force in the country of the incident.
Finally, I did not ask for a refund, I asked for a re-routing with BA, I then asked to use the ticket to London and then have a refund of the LHR MUC sector, to allow me to make my own way home.
bmi offered no other option but to accept a new connection leaving 6 hours after the original and arriving 6 hours afterwards, this was a non option and it did not comply with the EU directive.
Not only is it on tape, but I have a written audit trail via the travel agent.
The term 'involuntary cancellation' is used by the airline rep.
