Emergency Procedures.

[flypastpastfast]

Some people I knew who don't travel much said they don't bother with the safety briefing because if the plane crashes, they know they don't have a chance. I corrected them on this regarding crash survival, but I do wonder how many passengers don't listen because they know very little about the chance of surviving an 'incident'. There is a perception amongst some passengers that if it goes down, you can kiss your ass goodbye.


I don't think all people have the same reasons for ignoring it.

Any flight I am a passenger on, I get a seat near an exit, and calculate the number of dimwits I will have to jump across to get out. In a way it is almost like evolution, as those who won't get out on time are either not physically fast enough or are too dim to have watched the safety breifing.

Survival of the fittest.

I do think some airline have to address some points relating to this, particularly in relation to space around emergency exits. Budget airlines like Go et.al. have seats adjacent to the overwing exits, and there really is not much space for getting out - didn't this come up after the manchester runway fire with a BA? (please correct me if I'm mistaken) holiday flight which went on fire?


Airlines seem to be constantly pressurising the regulatory authorities to increase the number of passengers and seat rows between exits, and of course with the forthcoming A380, I really do wonder how well that could be evacuated. I personally remain to be convinced on that one.

[This message has been edited by flypastpastfast (edited 01 July 2001).]

[ammdolly]

Having been Cabin Crew for over 12 years now, it still alarms me how many people do not pay attention to the Safety demo, I have in the past [and will again in the future] stopped the demo and demanded that pax pay attention. I do not care if they are uninterested in getting out, but i will not have any other pax killed by there ignorance or stupidity. I have been unfortunate enough to have been involved in a number of onboard incidents including decompression and 2 evacuations. In the decompression I actually witnessed 1 guy looking around and pushing his mask out of his way and trying to carry on reading his newspaper! Regarding the question of overwing exits, all overwing exits must have enough space between the 2 rows for the pax to use the exits, and yes this space was increased after Manchester in order for this too happen. No airlines have seats blocking the overwing exits, yes they have seats either side, all airlines do,not just the budget ones, who I think get unfair treatment. Let us not forget that the budget airlines in the UK cut costs on customer service and not safety.Manchester also resulted in a number of other safety recommendations being implimented as did the kegworth incident. Regarding smoke hoods, we as crew have a job to get pax to keep there seatbelts on, especially inflight during turbulance, I actually had quoted to me the other day that by demanding a pax remained seated during turbulance and not allowing them to visit the loo was against the new UK human rights act. What chance do we have in getting them to use correctly and safely a smoke hood? It really is sad but as hard as we try as crew, most pax only consider safety when it is too late. Myself, I would like the saftey demo to include a video of some major airline disasters and the aftermath of them, then maybe I could get there attention for just a couple of seconds longer to show them something that I hope they will never need but that might one day save there life.

Happy and safe flying

[mutt]

PAXBoy,

I guess that your smokehood is one of those in a cannister which inflates? Can I ask how do you get it through airport security?

I had a big discussion with Manchester Airport security years ago because I tried to carry a life jacket (with CO2 cannister) on-board an Aer Lingus flight. They tried to reassure me that EI actually had their own!!

They just couldnt understand that I needed it in the C150 which I had just flown to England.

Luckily the EI Captain did appreciate that it was needed for single engine overwater flights.

Mutt.

[Evening Star]

Worthy subject. The trouble is that it is in the wrong place. Those of us who are SLF and interested enough to read PPRuNe are, I suppose almost by definition, more likely to pay attention to the safety briefing. (In fact, the last time I flew to Belfast City in an ATR full of suits, the cabin crew doing the demonstration seemed almost pathetically grateful that I paid attention to the briefing!) We are also more likely to be aware that it is good practice to count seats, check to see if the life jacket is there, door operation and so on.

We can talk about trampling on the clueless as they work out how to undo their belt, but do all know that is a joke, don't we? It is a pretty mean feat of agility to clamber over up to two people at any time (especially in Y class), let alone when everybody is trying to get to the exits in an emergency. Be blowed to survival of the fittest therefore, I would feel more comfortable about the message getting home and not risking impeding my survival. Is Goldies idea of repeating the safety card on the place mat as a way of reinforcing the message so bad? Also, has anybody from the USA replied to Deb Riechmann?

[SLF]

Guilty, I'm afraid!

I check the nearest exits when settling in, and ignore the safety briefing. I know there's a safety card in the seat pocket. I know how to put on seat belt, that it is fastened like this and opened like this. I can pull an oxygen mask towards me, I know to do mine first before helping others. I can put on a life jacket, fasten it at the side, I know that it has a light and whistle to attract attention. Its under my seat (I hope!) or the armrest. I know about child seatbelts, life cots etc

Face it, 90% of the briefing doesn't vary at all from airline to airline or plane to plane. If I'm flying a new leg, plane or airline I look at the safety card.


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29A please!

[Jungle Strip]

haven't read through the whole thread, so please forgive any obsolete remarks or repetitions.
When I trained (as an FA) we were tipped off that the passengers with their heads most deeply buried in the newspaper were likely to be the nervous ones...

All passengers think they are SPECIAL and INVULNERABLE. That's why it's more important to them to appear Cool than to up their survival chances. See also: leaping to their feet as soon as rubber hits runway..

Thanks 10W for pointing out that, if nothing else, courtesy comes in here. To my mind, if someone is standing 2 ft in front of you doing something you have been asked to take a few minutes to watch, it is only polite to put down the paper/book/girlfriend etc

On most flights, there is a substantial minority of people who make a point of smirking at us ("ooh look, he's going to do that silly "Exits" gesture again..") or even openly s******ing.

Yes, folks. You are COOL and we are IMPRESSED.

[Jungle Strip]

Postscript:

Interesting. Couldn't fathom why the s-word, I used in the last, meaningly only to laugh softly but unpleasantly, got asterisked.

Have just realised it must be because it contains the sub-word "n*gger"...!

I'm starting to agree with those who say Pprune Towers is getting a bit PC-megalomaniac in its old age.. Presumably words like "st*ff" (as in stick, or employees), p*ddy (as in Chinese rice field), itinerary (as in, a word which is potentially offensive to Italians), p*megranate and asp*c, to name but a tiny few, are also bleeped out.

Bl*mey.

[SLF]

Good thing you're not from Scvnthorpe!

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29A please!

[GalleyWench]

Cyrano, To answer your question on the last page about evacuating in 90 seconds...... I was one of the cabin crew that performed the evac that got the 777 certified by the FAA. The doors do not all work (one was planned to be inop but we did not know that)and there was difficulty in getting the pax out in the 90 seconds with the FAA minimum crew suggested- I think it was seven. The FAA minimum crew on the plane had to be upped by one to certify the plane. Keep in mind that the evac was performed with 'passengers' that were Boeing/United employees and their family and friends- so hence more savvy than the average pax. I do not know who selected which door failed to open but frankly it was immaterial which one when you evacuate into a hangar.

[Celtic Emerald]

Well I can't admit to something I don't do because I always follow the safety demo & study the card for a while after the demo is over. I'd want to be safety conscious because I like travelling in the cockpit & they don't want non-safety conscious assh*les up there .

Airlines advise as many of you have wisely pointed out that you should count the rows from the nearest exit after you've boarded because in the event of an accident the cabin could be filled with smoke & your vision greatly impaired so this COULD save your life. They also advise choosing a row close to an exit and an aisle seat (why oh why do I always put a nice view first) to increase the likelihood of survivability. The one thing I worry about with the safety demos is there so theoretical which I think is part of the problem, in a real situation where the theory has to be put to practise without the practical experience pax are likely to get very confused in an already frightening situation.

Emerald

[The Sleeping Pax]

sorry to be a bore but I'm totally with slasher on this question. I faced the same situation as he seems to have had and my reply wa that I didn't want to have to climb over the fools body in the event of an accident. I would love for the crew to stop the presentation of the video and ask that passengers watch and start the presentation again. I have worked in the oil, gas and chemical industry for 35 years and safety at all times is paramount. The sad thing is that I see at times flight crew travelling in uniform ignoring the presentation. I would have thought that these would be the people to set the example.

Besides, isn't it fun watching the people doing a piss poor parody of sign language in a one square inch box amazing? I realise that loosing one of your sences increases the power of another sence but hey.......the deaf must have amazing eyesight.

[Self Loading Freight]

Yes, I always pay attention during the safety briefing. Yes, I check the lifejacket, count the seats to the exit, read the seatback card.

Extra marks to companies like Virgin who try and make the briefing interesting or amusing, and to crew who liven things up. It makes a big difference: people really don't pay attention to boring things.

Also, what about people who don't know much (if any) English? With modern seatback technology, it would be very possible to have safety briefings in hundreds of languages stored away for recall on demand. I bet if people could rerun the briefing, there'd be a surge of interest following any noticeable turbulence...

R

[henry crun]

I'm the same as most who have replied in that I always watch the briefing, study the card, and know exactly where the nearest two exits are. However SLF has raised a valid point about different languages. A while back I was on a full 747 London-Bombay and was one of only a handful of white faces in cattle class. The rest were from india or thereabouts and from the conversations that were taking place around me and the numbers that I helped with their landing cards, few if any, had anything but a minimal grasp of English. Despite this the crew went through their safety briefing in English and French and I'm willing to bet that 95% of the passengers wouldn't have understood a word of it or realised that they could have got some essential information from the diagrams on the safety cards. So, what is the answer in situations like this, there just isn't time to get the message out between leaving the ramp and take off. Perhaps recorded messages in several languages via the headphones would be one way ?.

[PAXboy]

Firstly - to mutt, sorry not to reply earlier but I have not been on PPRUNE for a while.

Yes, the smoke hood IS a canister but I have had no questions. I started with it in May and have been through: DTW, JFK, LHR, LTN, EDI, IOM, PMI, MAN an never a peep from anyone. I can only presume that, since it is designed for use in aircraft, it is of all plastic construction. Perhaps it looks like a bottle of water on the screen?

Secondly, on the continuing debate. I have done 16 round trips of LTN/EDI with EZY and their -300s in the last seven months and the next starts tonight! I have to admit that I do not pay full attention during demo...

On walking out to the machine, I check if it is a -700 but these are usually deployed on the longer runs. I still count rows and check life jacket. Incidentally, I was VERY surprised when, last Friday night, the pax next to me checked for life jacket! It turned out that he is an orthopedic surgeon and travels a lot. He must see enough broken bodies!

Whilst keeping a weather ear for any changes to the demo a couple of weeks ago, I asked the pax next to me why she was ignoring it (we had been chatting beforehand). Turns out she was a frequent flyer but still nervous. "If we crash in the water, we're all going to be dead anyway." I decided not to challenge her on the logic of it or the 'crash on water', rather than 'land' on water!

But I taught her to count rows and how to use the headrest from the seat infront as an emergency smoke mask, by using water/tea/coffee.

Back to LTN, I go!



[ 16 July 2001: Message edited by: PAXboy ]

[You want it when?]

Well I was frequent flyer - and I followed the demonstrations. I once even had a BA stewardess come up to my row and say I was the only one listening in business class so in the event of a crash would the others follow me <G>. I've been in a 757 (I think) that was in poow WX and during the descent for Edinburgh all the masks dropped - I had mine on ASAP even though I guessed we were below 10,000. 2 minutes is your life not worth that (as well as it being good manners).

[PAXboy]

You're right, of course. I will do my best to correct my ways.

It occurs to me that another good reason to have used the mask, even if you had been at very low, was the chance to practice with the mask and how to put it on and so forth!

[QTSOA]

I fly regularly, usually on domestic routes on the east coast of Australia, and occasionally international routes to the UK, Europe, USA, and Asia. Early last year, I boarded a flight aboard JAL from Brisbane to Sydney through the international terminal, as it made my connection to the USA easier.
The aircraft arrived late from somewhere in Japan.
I among many other passengers were surprised to experience the plane take off, (after only a 2-3 minute taxi) without any safety briefing at all. Furthermore, all the inflight announcements were made in (I assume) Japanese. The majority of passengers were english speaking, and connecting onwards to other destinations. The plane was full, stunk of vomit, and there was no inflight service at all. The flight attendants remained seated for the entire flight, despite smooth conditions. The landing was among the most awful I had ever experienced. I could complain all day about that flight, but I guess what I really want to know is if this is a regular occuernce... I know they are legally reqiured to make announcements in english, but there werent any. I have experienced a similar occurence recently in france, where upon landing, there were problems with the aircraft and the crews emergency instructions were all given in french.
Anyone else ever experienced the same?

P.S. Commend Ansett after a recent flight with them. They went out of the way to get everyones attention during safety announcements by involving a couple of passengers. It was funny at the time, yet very effective!

[Crepello]

I work in the offshore gas industry, where we get to sit through 15 minutes of safety video before every strimmer flight. Believe me, the 2 minute briefing on a commercial flight is a welcome change, and the presenters are (usually) better looking...

I'd an interesting experience a few months ago on a CityFlyer RJ100 from LGW to AMS. Boarded in the normal manner, checked under the seat and - no lifejacket. This isn't unusual on AMS flights (don't get me started on certain types of tourists ) so I called the steward and arranged a replacement.

Thought that was it, until we pushed back and taxied towards the r/way. The skipper made the usual announcements on the Passenger Address, explained the short delay, then continued with "special congratulations to the passenger in 7A :o for his excellent safety awareness, that's the standard we'd like to see more of, would you all check under your seats, etc." Made me wonder why it's not part of the f/a's pre-boarding checks?

Ironically, I'd spent the day in London at Final Board recruitment for wannabe BA pilots. Suffice to say, I'm still in the old job

Crepello

PS - PAXboy, I'd not heard of the emergency smoke mask trick. I presume you rip the cover off, soak it in liquid and wear it like a mask?

[ 18 July 2001: Message edited by: Crepello ]

[radeng]

Read this thread with interest. I've done about 850,000 miles as SLF, and tend to take some notice of the briefing. But I've never checked to see if the life jacket is there. Next Monday, I'll check that when I get on BA776......and pay full attention to the briefing. If necessary, I'll tell other pax to shut up so I can hear it, too.

So you're never too old learn......

[Adrianna]

Watch Listen and learn and this is just the place for it
How many of you people count rows and oops parden me if you climb over me
But remember I will be the one on the floor counting rows getting to the exit Because if you climb over the seats People. ( Smoke will get in your eyes ) So remember next time you watch the drill In case of fire drop to the floor and count rows