Haven't got your choice of meal available - why does this happen?
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Makes much more sense to offer 3 meals with the certainty that all 3 will be available and a couple of reds, whites, rose and champagnes than 5 or 6 choices with limited numbers.
On my £2K business class ticket, I would be happy with your suggestion.
Airlines that offer F need to really differentiate it from J.
Whenever this gets discussed, increasingly nowadays due to reducing the meal numbers towards the actual numbers of pax, there are always those who say "ah well, we can't carry 50 sets of every choice, you know", as if this is somehow the ONLY option beyond carrying 20-20-10 and then saying "tough" to the people at the back of the cabin.
For what it's worth some years ago carriers used to be able to handle it well, knew what the averages were, knew how many overcaters to put on (not a huge number, but a few), and the issue rarely arose. It is quite possible. Excessive cost-cutting zeal has wiped this out. In times past they did NOT carry 50 of everything.
For what it's worth some years ago carriers used to be able to handle it well, knew what the averages were, knew how many overcaters to put on (not a huge number, but a few), and the issue rarely arose. It is quite possible. Excessive cost-cutting zeal has wiped this out. In times past they did NOT carry 50 of everything.
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Remember UTA, any of you?
I liked the airline, but flying back from an African country to Paris, I had elected lamb chops. They looked nice as they went past me down the aisle.
Chap turns up and dumps in front of me what, given the scales, fins etc. was clearly a fish.
Now, I have a violent allergical reaction to eating fish.
I say "That is not quite what I ordered"
He says "That's all I have left"
I say "If I eat this, can you have the skipper radio ahead for an ambulance revved up and ready to go, on the apron, because I am just a weeny bit allergic to fish."
The dead fish made a getaway which would be a credit to a live fish pursued by a predator.
It was replaced within seconds by a couple of nice chunks of lamb.
I thanked the kind fellow and ate my lamb (he was very friendly but courteous at the same time; know what I mean?)
The lamb was actually very good.
I suppose therefore that he was trying to foist off fish wherever he could, because it was not in huge demand, and because there was a massive demand for the lamb, and he could see that he was going to run out of lamb. Not his fault. Improvising as best he could, I think
Or he had brought his own emergency supplies of lamb with him, just in case.
Great bloke anyway, and great airline, sadly missed.
I liked the airline, but flying back from an African country to Paris, I had elected lamb chops. They looked nice as they went past me down the aisle.
Chap turns up and dumps in front of me what, given the scales, fins etc. was clearly a fish.
Now, I have a violent allergical reaction to eating fish.
I say "That is not quite what I ordered"
He says "That's all I have left"
I say "If I eat this, can you have the skipper radio ahead for an ambulance revved up and ready to go, on the apron, because I am just a weeny bit allergic to fish."
The dead fish made a getaway which would be a credit to a live fish pursued by a predator.
It was replaced within seconds by a couple of nice chunks of lamb.
I thanked the kind fellow and ate my lamb (he was very friendly but courteous at the same time; know what I mean?)
The lamb was actually very good.
I suppose therefore that he was trying to foist off fish wherever he could, because it was not in huge demand, and because there was a massive demand for the lamb, and he could see that he was going to run out of lamb. Not his fault. Improvising as best he could, I think
Or he had brought his own emergency supplies of lamb with him, just in case.
Great bloke anyway, and great airline, sadly missed.
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F3G,
I'm talking, mainly, about the Club Cabin. As far as I'm aware, it's rarely an issue in First due to the lower passenger numbers. They don't tend to let me up there very often.
WHBM,
That is exactly what we do do, although as already said, the company have reduced the number of overloads which has created more problems than in the past. However, I am still convinced that, in Club at least, we offer too many options. 20-20-10 is no problem. But add another two options into that, plus the special meals and storage starts to get a bit tight. Once again, I ask. Would you prefer less options in Club with more chance of getting your first choice, or all the options but the possibility that you will have to choose something else?
In my opinion, the airlines have always been their own worst enemy, especially in this area. After all, we bang on and on about the "Fine Dining Experience" whilst, seemingly forgetting that we are in the business of transportation. We are not a restaurant. We are not a cocktail bar. But by the time you arrive on board, we have built your expectations up way beyond what we are able to achieve!
Unfortunately, most of the big decisions are made by those that have never operated on an aircraft in their lives and therefore, have no idea what is actually feasible. They make the promises, we run around, trying to keep them.
Edited to add;
Wings Folded,
That lamb was probably a crew meal. Been there, done that!
Jsl
P.S. F3G, much as it pains me to say this, I don't blame you in the slightest.
I'm talking, mainly, about the Club Cabin. As far as I'm aware, it's rarely an issue in First due to the lower passenger numbers. They don't tend to let me up there very often.
WHBM,
That is exactly what we do do, although as already said, the company have reduced the number of overloads which has created more problems than in the past. However, I am still convinced that, in Club at least, we offer too many options. 20-20-10 is no problem. But add another two options into that, plus the special meals and storage starts to get a bit tight. Once again, I ask. Would you prefer less options in Club with more chance of getting your first choice, or all the options but the possibility that you will have to choose something else?
In my opinion, the airlines have always been their own worst enemy, especially in this area. After all, we bang on and on about the "Fine Dining Experience" whilst, seemingly forgetting that we are in the business of transportation. We are not a restaurant. We are not a cocktail bar. But by the time you arrive on board, we have built your expectations up way beyond what we are able to achieve!
Unfortunately, most of the big decisions are made by those that have never operated on an aircraft in their lives and therefore, have no idea what is actually feasible. They make the promises, we run around, trying to keep them.
Edited to add;
Wings Folded,
That lamb was probably a crew meal. Been there, done that!
Jsl
P.S. F3G, much as it pains me to say this, I don't blame you in the slightest.
My favourite is when you are told that they are out of your preferred choice and then later you see the cabin crew happily tucking into what one of them told you you could not have!
Jack
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JL
I bow to your inside knowledge.
A bit disturbing though.
If it was a crew meal, does that mean that because of my rather irritating allergy, two of the crew had to eat the same thing?
I thought that crew had to eat different meals, just in case of contamination.
Although my stay in the said African country had been one tournedos short of a gastronomic experience, I would prefer to be hungry than have two of the crew incapictated by food poisoning.
We might just get by with one CC u/s with food poisoning, but what if it were front left seat and front right seat?
How do you manage this?
My questions are sincere, since the same scenario is likely to crop up again sometime.
I bow to your inside knowledge.
A bit disturbing though.
If it was a crew meal, does that mean that because of my rather irritating allergy, two of the crew had to eat the same thing?
I thought that crew had to eat different meals, just in case of contamination.
Although my stay in the said African country had been one tournedos short of a gastronomic experience, I would prefer to be hungry than have two of the crew incapictated by food poisoning.
We might just get by with one CC u/s with food poisoning, but what if it were front left seat and front right seat?
How do you manage this?
My questions are sincere, since the same scenario is likely to crop up again sometime.
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Wings Folded,
It's the flight crew, up the front, that must have different meals and that will always be adhered to, for the very reasons you have mentioned. I have to be honest and admit that I don't know if it is actually a requirement that cabin crew also have a selection of different meals. I should know that really, so will find out ASAP! However, we do always get a choice on long haul flights and there is usually someone on the crew willing to give up their choice of meal in the circumstances you describe. Either that, or you'd be amazed at how inventive we can be with combining different things. You wouldn't believe the number of passengers with serious dietary requirements that have, unknowingly, eaten a main from one cabin, served on a bed of starter from another, followed by a pudding from a third cabin. If it enables them to have something to eat, we'll do it! It is, however, all unofficial....
It's the flight crew, up the front, that must have different meals and that will always be adhered to, for the very reasons you have mentioned. I have to be honest and admit that I don't know if it is actually a requirement that cabin crew also have a selection of different meals. I should know that really, so will find out ASAP! However, we do always get a choice on long haul flights and there is usually someone on the crew willing to give up their choice of meal in the circumstances you describe. Either that, or you'd be amazed at how inventive we can be with combining different things. You wouldn't believe the number of passengers with serious dietary requirements that have, unknowingly, eaten a main from one cabin, served on a bed of starter from another, followed by a pudding from a third cabin. If it enables them to have something to eat, we'll do it! It is, however, all unofficial....
In my opinion, the airlines have always been their own worst enemy, especially in this area. After all, we bang on and on about the "Fine Dining Experience" whilst, seemingly forgetting that we are in the business of transportation. We are not a restaurant. We are not a cocktail bar.
) serving an elegant meal, rather than the guys up front with their heads in the Jeppesen and the navigation computer. So that is what customers are being told they get for their money.After all, the differentiator between paying £200 in Y and £2,000 in F is not the transportation, which is achieved in exactly the same way for both. So the £1,800 differential is for more seat, more space, and a "fine dining experience".
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I agree, WHBM, which is why I added....
However, following...
I'll agree with anything you say, anyway! 
Originally Posted by jetset lady
But by the time you arrive on board, we have built your expectations up way beyond what we are able to achieve!
Unfortunately, most of the big decisions are made by those that have never operated on an aircraft in their lives and therefore, have no idea what is actually feasible. They make the promises, we run around, trying to keep them.
Unfortunately, most of the big decisions are made by those that have never operated on an aircraft in their lives and therefore, have no idea what is actually feasible. They make the promises, we run around, trying to keep them.
Originally Posted by WHBM
..but show an elegant FA (and we are all sure that JSL is one such 
)
)
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Thanks JSL for you reply.
I have flown shedloads of times on a famous Dutch royal airline, sometimes in first when they had it, but mainly in business.
It's funny how they asssimilate luxury with fish: caviar, salmon and so forth.
I think that more than once them up front have had my caviar when I was happy to have their soup (generally excellent)
Wonder whether the caviar took a left turn after the cockpit door or a right turn......
I have flown shedloads of times on a famous Dutch royal airline, sometimes in first when they had it, but mainly in business.
It's funny how they asssimilate luxury with fish: caviar, salmon and so forth.
I think that more than once them up front have had my caviar when I was happy to have their soup (generally excellent)
Wonder whether the caviar took a left turn after the cockpit door or a right turn......
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A few years back I was in business Cathay Pacific, and had an option of steak or a list of many asian meals, and unfortunately the steak wasn't available by the time they reached me, and I really didn't fancy an asian meal. So after she told me the steak wasn't available, I politely declined and said i'd be happy without a meal, then a few minutes later was suddenly presented with the steak.... :-) I found it unusual, but was happy nonetheless.
Often in business I decline the meal, as it just seems such a faf and takes so long and i'd rather sleep. Yet when i'm in economy, i'm quite happy to eat it as anything that makes the time pass quicker is welcomed...
Often in business I decline the meal, as it just seems such a faf and takes so long and i'd rather sleep. Yet when i'm in economy, i'm quite happy to eat it as anything that makes the time pass quicker is welcomed...
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JSL
Don't want to be a bore and this is not aimed at you in particular, but just a plea to all airlines / restaurants / cafes:
Do not believe that you can scoop some fish / seafood off a bed of salad, for example, replace it with chunks of beef, and assume all will be fine.
The contamination is there.
Three days in hospital with an intravenous is not my idea of fun, and I suspect would not be other's either.
I know.
It has happened more than once.
Don't want to be a bore and this is not aimed at you in particular, but just a plea to all airlines / restaurants / cafes:
Do not believe that you can scoop some fish / seafood off a bed of salad, for example, replace it with chunks of beef, and assume all will be fine.
The contamination is there.
Three days in hospital with an intravenous is not my idea of fun, and I suspect would not be other's either.
I know.
It has happened more than once.
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WF,
You aren't being a bore at all. I'd say it's a totally valid point as many don't realise the seriousness of cross contamination, although the publicity surrounding nut allergies has certainly raised awareness. In the airline I work for, they do cover allergies and anaphylactic shock in a pretty big way, so hopefully, none of our crew would do this. Any caught doing such a thing would be slapped with the same piece of fish they were removing! After all, the last thing we want is a medical emergency at 35,000 ft.
Jsl
P.S. Is it wrong to feel ever so slightly pleased with myself for managing to spell anaphylactic correctly, first time?
You aren't being a bore at all. I'd say it's a totally valid point as many don't realise the seriousness of cross contamination, although the publicity surrounding nut allergies has certainly raised awareness. In the airline I work for, they do cover allergies and anaphylactic shock in a pretty big way, so hopefully, none of our crew would do this. Any caught doing such a thing would be slapped with the same piece of fish they were removing! After all, the last thing we want is a medical emergency at 35,000 ft.
Jsl
P.S. Is it wrong to feel ever so slightly pleased with myself for managing to spell anaphylactic correctly, first time?
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JSL
Congrats on anafillactique!!
If you will, just spread the word about people with allergies. You are so right that you do not want a medical emergency at FL350.
Neither does the PAX in question.
Nuts have raised awareness, but I believe that there still is no reservation code for a Pax with a fish allergy, whereas if you are nut allergic or pig allergic (Jewish, Islam or no doubt others) you can have a code.
Seems to me to be a small missing element.
Congrats on anafillactique!!
If you will, just spread the word about people with allergies. You are so right that you do not want a medical emergency at FL350.
Neither does the PAX in question.
Nuts have raised awareness, but I believe that there still is no reservation code for a Pax with a fish allergy, whereas if you are nut allergic or pig allergic (Jewish, Islam or no doubt others) you can have a code.
Seems to me to be a small missing element.
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I know I am always banging on about how great Air Berlin are for European travel
But take a look at their website, you can pre-order from a very good range of meals which are both tasty and low cost (like the airline). When you do this the CC bring the meal to your seat before they start the general cabin service.
If a lo-co can do this, in the age of modern internet technology, why can major airlines not at least let premium passengers select their meals online when they book or check-in. No dissapointments, in fact this would be a product differentiator and the money saved on loading extra choices (or not in this case) could be used to pay for the software required.
But take a look at their website, you can pre-order from a very good range of meals which are both tasty and low cost (like the airline). When you do this the CC bring the meal to your seat before they start the general cabin service.
If a lo-co can do this, in the age of modern internet technology, why can major airlines not at least let premium passengers select their meals online when they book or check-in. No dissapointments, in fact this would be a product differentiator and the money saved on loading extra choices (or not in this case) could be used to pay for the software required.
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rmac, that's a nice thought, and potentially do-able. I would anticipate, however, that the airlines would charge a premium for that facility - they seem to do for everything else these days.
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Ahh, how this talk of food and wine brings back "the good old days"..of the nineties.
I quote from a menu for First Class AA, 1993:
"Welcome Aboard...
Your selection of award winning-wines has been personally chosen by Dr Richard Vine (true!)professor of enology and consultant for American Airlines...."
Pommery Cuvee 1985
Montrachet Clos de Vieux 1990
Chateau Lascombe 1990
Sandeman Character Sherry
Malvedos 1982 Vintage Port.
Johnnie Walker Black Label
Please also allow us to offer you a selection of cocktails.
And afterwards...
Courvoisier VSOP Champagne Cognac.
The Caviar Cart will be served no later than ten minutes after take off:
Sevruga Caviar from the Caspian Sea
Blinis
Absolut Vodka
All chilled on Ice.
Appetizer Cart
Smoked Salmon with Barbeque Chateaubriand Salad
Sorbet of Kiwi Lime
Entrees
Rack of Welsh Lamb
Steak Lousianna Filet Mignon
Grilled Oregano Chicken
Penne Pasta
Fruit & Cheese
Stilton, Provolone and Carrigbyrne with Sandemanns Vintage 50Yr old Port
Dessert
Ice Cream Sundae Cart
Hot Fudge, Butterscotch or Berry topping
Whipped Cream
Afternoon Meal
Seared Barbeque Chicken with Plum Ginger Sause
Lemon Linguine Chicken
Iced Tea
Baked-on-Board Cookies....."
And BA First to Miami August 1994:
"British Airways as a member of La Confrere de la Chaine de Rotisseurs - the world's oldest and most importantt gastrononomical society, founded in 1248 and granted a Royal Charter in 1610 - welcomes the priveilege of continuing long-standing traditions of comfort, elegance and hospitality for the most discerning of travellers.....
Glenfiddich Excellence single Malt
Johnnie Walker Black Label
Smirnof Silver
Martell XO Supreme
Fonseca Port
Marinated Salmon
Yorkshire Pudding with Foie Gras
Roast Welsh Lamb
Baked Snapper
Aberdeen Angus Filet Steak
Porcini Mushroom, Caviar and shaved truffles
Strawberries and Cream
Afternoon Tea
Courgette Flan
Scones with Strawberry Preserve and Clotted Cream
I quote from a menu for First Class AA, 1993:
"Welcome Aboard...
Your selection of award winning-wines has been personally chosen by Dr Richard Vine (true!)professor of enology and consultant for American Airlines...."
Pommery Cuvee 1985
Montrachet Clos de Vieux 1990
Chateau Lascombe 1990
Sandeman Character Sherry
Malvedos 1982 Vintage Port.
Johnnie Walker Black Label
Please also allow us to offer you a selection of cocktails.
And afterwards...
Courvoisier VSOP Champagne Cognac.
The Caviar Cart will be served no later than ten minutes after take off:
Sevruga Caviar from the Caspian Sea
Blinis
Absolut Vodka
All chilled on Ice.
Appetizer Cart
Smoked Salmon with Barbeque Chateaubriand Salad
Sorbet of Kiwi Lime
Entrees
Rack of Welsh Lamb
Steak Lousianna Filet Mignon
Grilled Oregano Chicken
Penne Pasta
Fruit & Cheese
Stilton, Provolone and Carrigbyrne with Sandemanns Vintage 50Yr old Port
Dessert
Ice Cream Sundae Cart
Hot Fudge, Butterscotch or Berry topping
Whipped Cream
Afternoon Meal
Seared Barbeque Chicken with Plum Ginger Sause
Lemon Linguine Chicken
Iced Tea
Baked-on-Board Cookies....."
And BA First to Miami August 1994:
"British Airways as a member of La Confrere de la Chaine de Rotisseurs - the world's oldest and most importantt gastrononomical society, founded in 1248 and granted a Royal Charter in 1610 - welcomes the priveilege of continuing long-standing traditions of comfort, elegance and hospitality for the most discerning of travellers.....
Glenfiddich Excellence single Malt
Johnnie Walker Black Label
Smirnof Silver
Martell XO Supreme
Fonseca Port
Marinated Salmon
Yorkshire Pudding with Foie Gras
Roast Welsh Lamb
Baked Snapper
Aberdeen Angus Filet Steak
Porcini Mushroom, Caviar and shaved truffles
Strawberries and Cream
Afternoon Tea
Courgette Flan
Scones with Strawberry Preserve and Clotted Cream
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Rather than consider how popular the chicken might be, isn't it worth asking why so many didn't choose the alternatives? Maybe that was the problem rather than the appeal of the chicken?
Sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees . . .
Sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees . . .