'I can't check you in without your reference number'!
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F3G
You made a statement which inferred how tiresome you find check-in agents who don't perform exactly as you wish. You received one of the most polite and informative responses (from someone in the job) I've seen on here for a long time which, apparently, was not good enough for you. Is life so awful for you that it really is the final straw to have to say "Malta" or "London" when asked a simple question by someone trying to do their job?
You made a statement which inferred how tiresome you find check-in agents who don't perform exactly as you wish. You received one of the most polite and informative responses (from someone in the job) I've seen on here for a long time which, apparently, was not good enough for you. Is life so awful for you that it really is the final straw to have to say "Malta" or "London" when asked a simple question by someone trying to do their job?
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Strake
I did acknowledge the helpful tone of Frontcheck's reply.
Frontcheck's para 1 does say the reference number is required for identification, as it is not unknown for bookings with simliar or identical names to exist on multiple airlines.
So if that is true, then what I described, where the agents do not ask for the reference number at all and ignore the ITR, is taking a risk of putting me on the wrong flight (as flights flights from different airlines are often handled by banks of check in desks)
I then quote a real example of where the agent did not appear to be looking at my reservation, having studiously ignored the ITR with the PNR.
What is your problem?
I did acknowledge the helpful tone of Frontcheck's reply.
Frontcheck's para 1 does say the reference number is required for identification, as it is not unknown for bookings with simliar or identical names to exist on multiple airlines.
So if that is true, then what I described, where the agents do not ask for the reference number at all and ignore the ITR, is taking a risk of putting me on the wrong flight (as flights flights from different airlines are often handled by banks of check in desks)
I then quote a real example of where the agent did not appear to be looking at my reservation, having studiously ignored the ITR with the PNR.
What is your problem?
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Whilst I appreciate your last comment F3G, check-in agents do not actually look at the reservation when checking-in. Depending on the system being used they see an abreviated version with basically name/flight/destination/onto flights , most other information is added at the time of check-in. Not all airlines use the same "fare buckets" so a "D" class ticket on airline "A" might well be Business Class but not necessarily on airline "B". Most airport staff chop and change between systems 3 or 4 timer per shift so it is understandable that a certain amount of confusion arises. Not making any excuses just the reality of the job. There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying "hello ,where are you flying to today?" much beter than a transaction in complete silence
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frontcheck
You sound like a pretty decent person and I am sure that checking in with you would be a good experience.
FYI, when I reviewed the check in competencies at a major European airline, the reception at the desk were defined as
Threshold - smile at customer, greet them with 'good morning sir/madam'
Proficient - smile at customer, quickly read name on docs and greet with 'good morning mr/mrs/ms.....'
I guess my beef is that I arrive at a premium check in, I've prepared the ITR and passport at the right page so the agent can see all the details easily and then the agent does not even glance at the ITR, but mindlessly asks where I am flying to, often failing to return my good morning/good afternoon.
It reminds me of the complaints from cabin crew that pax haven't got their boarding passes ready for inspection on boarding; I have gone to the trouble of getting the right docs together and the agent doesnt even look (I quite undeerstand your point about long and confusing print outs, but I am presenting the Sabre or Amadeus ITR - I find it discourteous and not competent (by the major airline standards I mentioned.)
If I was checking in at a long queue on a loco, I would take a different view, but normally I'm business or occasionally first class, is it too much to expect a comensurate check in experience?
You sound like a pretty decent person and I am sure that checking in with you would be a good experience.
FYI, when I reviewed the check in competencies at a major European airline, the reception at the desk were defined as
Threshold - smile at customer, greet them with 'good morning sir/madam'
Proficient - smile at customer, quickly read name on docs and greet with 'good morning mr/mrs/ms.....'
I guess my beef is that I arrive at a premium check in, I've prepared the ITR and passport at the right page so the agent can see all the details easily and then the agent does not even glance at the ITR, but mindlessly asks where I am flying to, often failing to return my good morning/good afternoon.
It reminds me of the complaints from cabin crew that pax haven't got their boarding passes ready for inspection on boarding; I have gone to the trouble of getting the right docs together and the agent doesnt even look (I quite undeerstand your point about long and confusing print outs, but I am presenting the Sabre or Amadeus ITR - I find it discourteous and not competent (by the major airline standards I mentioned.)
If I was checking in at a long queue on a loco, I would take a different view, but normally I'm business or occasionally first class, is it too much to expect a comensurate check in experience?
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Some systems I have used, in the check-in process, go straight to destination, with the destination of your last check in as a default. If an agent check in say 6 JKFs then a passenger presents for BOS, the first thing the agent does is override JKF. This has to be done before anything else.
Using a PNR to retrieve a booking actually slows down the process and brings you to a screen that you can't use to check in. It is quicker to have the destination and then go straight to the name. It also gives you a chance to engage the passenger in a conversation by asking where they're off to.
I would hate think that any of the passengers I have checked thought I was a 'dork' because I asked them where they were going?
Using a PNR to retrieve a booking actually slows down the process and brings you to a screen that you can't use to check in. It is quicker to have the destination and then go straight to the name. It also gives you a chance to engage the passenger in a conversation by asking where they're off to.
I would hate think that any of the passengers I have checked thought I was a 'dork' because I asked them where they were going?
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VS-LHRCSA
The question is, if a pax presented you with the ITR as well as their passport, which has all the info you need, would you simply set it to one side, ignore it and then ask for the destination?
If so, I would think you a dork, because in my opinion, it is discourteous behaviour to ignore a document handed to you by a customer - if you quickly scan it and can't easily see the destination, then fair enough.
Of course I wouldn't say what I thought, I would politely answer your question. Two discourtesies do not a courtesy make.
And then, if you started to show surprise that I was expecting a business class seat, when the ignored ITR clearly shows 30K allowance and a seat allocation of 1F (yes, not guranteed, but a pretty good clue to the class of travel), I would think you were a double dork, but I still wouldn't say anything.
But I'm also sure, from your many comments over the years on the forum that you are not a dork and don't act like one, I imagine that you are courteous and a credit to your company, as frontcheck is to his/hers.
The majority of check in personnel are a pleasure to deal with, a minority are not.
Sadly, as a very frequent traveller, I do encounter the minority frequently.
The question is, if a pax presented you with the ITR as well as their passport, which has all the info you need, would you simply set it to one side, ignore it and then ask for the destination?
If so, I would think you a dork, because in my opinion, it is discourteous behaviour to ignore a document handed to you by a customer - if you quickly scan it and can't easily see the destination, then fair enough.
Of course I wouldn't say what I thought, I would politely answer your question. Two discourtesies do not a courtesy make.
And then, if you started to show surprise that I was expecting a business class seat, when the ignored ITR clearly shows 30K allowance and a seat allocation of 1F (yes, not guranteed, but a pretty good clue to the class of travel), I would think you were a double dork, but I still wouldn't say anything.
But I'm also sure, from your many comments over the years on the forum that you are not a dork and don't act like one, I imagine that you are courteous and a credit to your company, as frontcheck is to his/hers.
The majority of check in personnel are a pleasure to deal with, a minority are not.
Sadly, as a very frequent traveller, I do encounter the minority frequently.
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F3G,
I see your point.
It seems to me that the real problem is sheer ignorance of the staff concerned, no idea of how to be civil. As you say, there a few around!!
During my time I would generally have asked where you were flying to while you were passing your docs to me. That would generally mean that your flight would be up in front of me as I looked at your passport. It is all down to speed of transaction really.
With regards to the Business Class issue. One should NEVER act as that person did, never make assumptions about someone, it will usually come back to bite you in the ***!!!!
Hope that this was fairly oxymoron-free!
I see your point.
It seems to me that the real problem is sheer ignorance of the staff concerned, no idea of how to be civil. As you say, there a few around!!
During my time I would generally have asked where you were flying to while you were passing your docs to me. That would generally mean that your flight would be up in front of me as I looked at your passport. It is all down to speed of transaction really.
With regards to the Business Class issue. One should NEVER act as that person did, never make assumptions about someone, it will usually come back to bite you in the ***!!!!
Hope that this was fairly oxymoron-free!
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Malone
You are right, its the lack of civility.
Asking whilst handing documents across is courteous and if it speeds up the prcess, then so much the better.
I was only joking about the oxymoron yesterday, as I hope you realised from the
and 
icons.
You are right, its the lack of civility.
Asking whilst handing documents across is courteous and if it speeds up the prcess, then so much the better.
I was only joking about the oxymoron yesterday, as I hope you realised from the
and icons.
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Another reason for asking the "final" destination is to work out if the baggage can be through checked. This may seem like a very silly question but not all airlines will through check if on seperate tickets. Some travel companies have the habit of adding all the onward sectors into the booking to try and fool the system into thinking the customer has a through ticket, depending on the system being used it is sometimes quite difficult to work out what is actually going on, so please guys give us a break there is more to check-in than just smiling and looking good ! 
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frontcheck
I can understand your comment about separate tickets and interlining, but most of my flights are point to point on a single ticket.
Occasionally I have been asked about my final destination, but always after the agent has looked at the paperwork and normally in the context of whether I wish to check through or pick up my bags partway (if there is a long connection.) Thsi tlc is appreciated, for reasons that will become evident in a min.
I did once have some helpful git at Alitalia check my baggage through to final destination without asking, when I had a 23 hour connection (from 8pm to 7pm) and was intending to do a day's business enroute, as well as staying at a hotel.
Worse, he didnt ask me if I wished him to do this or tell me he'd done it and only issued me a BP to the intermediate stop. I didn't realise until my bag didn't appear and then I looked at the stub and realised what had happened!
It took ages to find the bag in the holding area in Rome and the local AZ guys went bananas (fortunately not at me, they were very helpful)
I can understand your comment about separate tickets and interlining, but most of my flights are point to point on a single ticket.
Occasionally I have been asked about my final destination, but always after the agent has looked at the paperwork and normally in the context of whether I wish to check through or pick up my bags partway (if there is a long connection.) Thsi tlc is appreciated, for reasons that will become evident in a min.
I did once have some helpful git at Alitalia check my baggage through to final destination without asking, when I had a 23 hour connection (from 8pm to 7pm) and was intending to do a day's business enroute, as well as staying at a hotel.
Worse, he didnt ask me if I wished him to do this or tell me he'd done it and only issued me a BP to the intermediate stop. I didn't realise until my bag didn't appear and then I looked at the stub and realised what had happened!
It took ages to find the bag in the holding area in Rome and the local AZ guys went bananas (fortunately not at me, they were very helpful)
Lady Lexxington
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I hate our system, hi Frontcheck, for not allowing you to drop a last sector if it's with an interline partner. In the old days we could just drop a portion of a passengers journey in a second. These days it's a matter of offloading a pax (if they've already checked in at the self service before coming to the desk) and rechecking them in and telling the system to drop a portion. Time consuming and frustrating for the passenger and check in agent alike.
I'm also in the camp of asking the destination before the docs have come over the desk, to get things moving quicker.
My current pet hate is pax who pretend to have no documents whilst arguing over their baggage allowance.
I'm also in the camp of asking the destination before the docs have come over the desk, to get things moving quicker.
My current pet hate is pax who pretend to have no documents whilst arguing over their baggage allowance.
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I hear what you are saying lexxity, for those who have not worked on a check-in desk the process and the questions you have to consider when checking-in for a legacy carrier goes something like this:-
1/hello, good morning or whatever
2/What is your final destination today?
3/have you checked-in online already but been unable to print the b/pass?
4/can I find the name in the system (not always obvious believe me)
5/are you on a through ticket?
6/ is the passport valid?
7/do you need a visa?
8/do you need a document check?
9/what is your baggage allowance?
10/do you have a frequent traveller card?
11/does the card entitle you to extra allowance?
12/does the card entitle you to lounge access?
13/is your baggage over the allowance?
14/is any single item over 23kg, if so a heavy charge may apply
15/are you checking any sports or oversize items,if so a charge may apply
16/if through checking, can I access the onto flight to print b/pass
17/add a transfer tag (if needed)
18/add a heavy tag (if applicable)
19/add a priority tag (if required)
20/is there any special assistance required?
21/ask the standard security questions
21/explain how to get to gates and time of boarding
During the above process the printer sticks or the bag tag roll needs replaced,the system freezes,the bag belt stops because a bag has got stuck going round one of the many corners on the conveyor system ,the dispatch office are on your back to close the flight on time and get the next one opened,the phone constantly rings,the radio never stops AND we do it all with a smile (well sometimes) then just as you finish this the next family in the queue turn up with a dog, firearms, a buggy, a bouble bass,a microwave, a cuddly toy , and granny in a wheelchair
You know you are not going to get a break because there should be 17 agents on duty but due to sickness etc there are only 12 ,we dont have the luxury to call staff from standby (like crew) and we dont have minimum staff levels (like crew) we just have to get on with it.
My airline has calculated that the average time to process the above is 4 minutes, so to anyone who would like to try it,,,,,you are welcome to have a go.
Anyone want a job !
1/hello, good morning or whatever
2/What is your final destination today?
3/have you checked-in online already but been unable to print the b/pass?
4/can I find the name in the system (not always obvious believe me)
5/are you on a through ticket?
6/ is the passport valid?
7/do you need a visa?
8/do you need a document check?
9/what is your baggage allowance?
10/do you have a frequent traveller card?
11/does the card entitle you to extra allowance?
12/does the card entitle you to lounge access?
13/is your baggage over the allowance?
14/is any single item over 23kg, if so a heavy charge may apply
15/are you checking any sports or oversize items,if so a charge may apply
16/if through checking, can I access the onto flight to print b/pass
17/add a transfer tag (if needed)
18/add a heavy tag (if applicable)
19/add a priority tag (if required)
20/is there any special assistance required?
21/ask the standard security questions
21/explain how to get to gates and time of boarding
During the above process the printer sticks or the bag tag roll needs replaced,the system freezes,the bag belt stops because a bag has got stuck going round one of the many corners on the conveyor system ,the dispatch office are on your back to close the flight on time and get the next one opened,the phone constantly rings,the radio never stops AND we do it all with a smile (well sometimes) then just as you finish this the next family in the queue turn up with a dog, firearms, a buggy, a bouble bass,a microwave, a cuddly toy , and granny in a wheelchair
You know you are not going to get a break because there should be 17 agents on duty but due to sickness etc there are only 12 ,we dont have the luxury to call staff from standby (like crew) and we dont have minimum staff levels (like crew) we just have to get on with it.
My airline has calculated that the average time to process the above is 4 minutes, so to anyone who would like to try it,,,,,you are welcome to have a go.
Anyone want a job !
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Frontcheck I sympathise.
We pax are now used to checking on line - one click and here's the bp. So when we have to deal with a human at the airport we are mystified as to why there are so many keypresses required. Your post explains why - thank you.
There's a real need for the industry who have spent a lot on their web interfaces to now concentrate their efforts on the systems at the airport. Surely it must be possible to make this process easier for both the checkin staff and the pax?
We pax are now used to checking on line - one click and here's the bp. So when we have to deal with a human at the airport we are mystified as to why there are so many keypresses required. Your post explains why - thank you.
There's a real need for the industry who have spent a lot on their web interfaces to now concentrate their efforts on the systems at the airport. Surely it must be possible to make this process easier for both the checkin staff and the pax?
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There's a real need for the industry who have spent a lot on their web interfaces to now concentrate their efforts on the systems at the airport. Surely it must be possible to make this process easier for both the checkin staff and the pax?
This involved assumptions about the most likely parameters for the next customer.
This reduced the number of keystrokes to an absolute minimum.
( it should be quicker now as the smoker / non smoker option has gone)
Quite a bit of the development was done by front line check in staff.
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frontcheck
I understand your frustrations (systems and processes) and often wonder why airlines invest so much money in projecting their brands, focusing on the airbonre experience, when the first and last contact the passenger will have are with ground personnel and systems.
Some of the questions I get asked on check in make me seriously wonder about the agent's awareness - here are some gems from the past few years, shared for a laugh, not as a dig
Have you checked in online? Yes (you are holding my boarding pass)
Have you checked in online? No (you are holding my boarding pass from the self service kiosk)
I can't find your visa to enter India, do you have one? No, because I am flying to New York and not to India. (and you are holding my ticket)
Would you like an emergency exit row? (trying to be helpful) No thanks (I was rather hoping to get one in the front since it says F on my ticket, but you didn't look at it)
Do you realise that Lufthansa have issued your Swiss ticket incorrectly? (Strangely enough, I never did the IATA ticketing course, so it looks like a string of gibberish to me)
Have you any skis to check in? No thanks (the snow is lousy in Malta this year - I wasn't travelling from a snow resort, either.)
Have you got a visa to enter the Schengen area? (earnestly looking at a Saudi visa in UK passport and confusing it with the details page .....)
Finally and a classic conversational question 'what country is Malta in?'
Once again, I stress that the majority of agents are professional and courteous and do a great job
I understand your frustrations (systems and processes) and often wonder why airlines invest so much money in projecting their brands, focusing on the airbonre experience, when the first and last contact the passenger will have are with ground personnel and systems.
Some of the questions I get asked on check in make me seriously wonder about the agent's awareness - here are some gems from the past few years, shared for a laugh, not as a dig
Have you checked in online? Yes (you are holding my boarding pass)
Have you checked in online? No (you are holding my boarding pass from the self service kiosk)
I can't find your visa to enter India, do you have one? No, because I am flying to New York and not to India. (and you are holding my ticket)
Would you like an emergency exit row? (trying to be helpful) No thanks (I was rather hoping to get one in the front since it says F on my ticket, but you didn't look at it)
Do you realise that Lufthansa have issued your Swiss ticket incorrectly? (Strangely enough, I never did the IATA ticketing course, so it looks like a string of gibberish to me)
Have you any skis to check in? No thanks (the snow is lousy in Malta this year - I wasn't travelling from a snow resort, either.)
Have you got a visa to enter the Schengen area? (earnestly looking at a Saudi visa in UK passport and confusing it with the details page .....)
Finally and a classic conversational question 'what country is Malta in?'
Once again, I stress that the majority of agents are professional and courteous and do a great job
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Some of the questions I get asked on check in make me seriously wonder about the agent's awareness :
"Ver ist your visa to South Africa".
"I don't need one"
"Ja, you do, only ze EU passport holders can go without one"
"Spain is part of the EU"
"Nein"
So we hold up the passport where it says : 'Comunidad Europea' on the cover page.
"Und vat does zis mean".
Lady Lexxington
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My airline has calculated that the average time to process the above is 4 minutes, so to anyone who would like to try it,,,,,you are welcome to have a go.
Anyone want a job !
Anyone want a job !
F3G,
. If I have a problem I always explain why this is going to take a while. Wednesday morning for instance, I had a really lovely couple arrive at check in at 0600, the flight closes at 0605, they hadn't had their alarm call at all or their pickup ontime. Checked her ticket in, including all the bags to SFO via LHR with no problems. Entered the Gentlemans name (our wonderful system will allow group check in on line and at the self service machines but not at the desk
). I couldn't even find the Gentleman listed.So I ran it through the codeshare flight number as that sometimes works. Nope.
Checked ticket numbers either side of the Wifes number. Nope.
Time is ticking on and the dispatcher has called to close out.
Find the Gentleman in the not accepted list with no ticket details.
Call the ticket desk to see if they can see the ticket number. They say too busy and put me on hold!
I then run (well sort of fast walk, no running in uniform now
) across the check in hall after issuing a brief explanation of what is going on viz. no ticket details and none on itinerary either and believe me we checked every bit of paper they had.Ticket agent calls LHR, onward carrier not in yet so no answer. Can't find the Gentlemans reservation AT ALL! Can see the Lady but not him.
Only option is buy new ticket to LHR, we will then call onward when they open and see if we can get all details from them and then refund the ticket to LHR.
Me:back to pax, hurry him to ticket desk, he buys ticket. Me back to check in and print boarding card. Rush back to pax and escort both through security and down to gate.
It is 0615 by the time we take their boarding cards at the gate.
Just another quiet morning at work.
(secretly we love it, but don't tell anyone.)