Trapped on an airplane for 9 hours
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Very bad press for Continental. This will cost them in compensation, but also much more in bad publicity. First the Colgan crash and now this? I guess Continental uses several third party airlines?
Whatever -- there can't be a good excuse for passengers trapped on a small plane for this amount of time. Someone has to take responsibility that this doesn't happen, but they didn't. Now the "passenger bill of rights" will pass for sure. These guys seem to be a lot better at shooting themselves in the foot than running an airline.
Whatever -- there can't be a good excuse for passengers trapped on a small plane for this amount of time. Someone has to take responsibility that this doesn't happen, but they didn't. Now the "passenger bill of rights" will pass for sure. These guys seem to be a lot better at shooting themselves in the foot than running an airline.
As ever US mainstream carriers want to take all the credit for their large networks, and then deny any link when things go wrong (was particularly noticeable after the Colgan accident).
There must be a whole manual at the Continental, and the other US majors, PR department for all sorts of eventualities, describing when you include the commuters in your business ("Our network, sir ? Oh yes, we serve 500 cities nationwide") and when you exclude them ("Disgraceful service, sir, on a plane painted in our livery, booked on our flight number, boarded at our terminal and with our in-flight mag in the seats ? Oh no, that is nothing to do with us").
Like most airline PR staff nowadays, probably doesnt't know one end of a plane from the other.
Has nobody in the USA ever heard of a handling agent ?
Haha. Let me tell you how this works at US airlines. They offer the "compensation" in miles on their frequent flyer scheme. Not a member ? You have to open membership up to get the compensation. And then my god, try and spend them. Miles can seemingly never be redeemed on any route that is useful. Let me go to New York. "No seats available". But you can make normal reservations on every flight. "Available mileage redemption on those flights was set at zero".
There must be a whole manual at the Continental, and the other US majors, PR department for all sorts of eventualities, describing when you include the commuters in your business ("Our network, sir ? Oh yes, we serve 500 cities nationwide") and when you exclude them ("Disgraceful service, sir, on a plane painted in our livery, booked on our flight number, boarded at our terminal and with our in-flight mag in the seats ? Oh no, that is nothing to do with us").
Kristy Nicholas, a spokeswoman for ExpressJet Airlines
Like most airline PR staff nowadays, probably doesnt't know one end of a plane from the other.
from an ops POV surely it is not beyond the wit of an airline operating in this area of the US to have a contingency plan to at least find a coach?
This will cost them in compensation
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Airlines Generally
Here's an interesting take on airlines generally, courtesy of Matthew Lynn of Bloomberg. I think Mr Lynn has perhaps suffered a particularly stressful journey recently, but his article sums up air travel in the 21st century pretty well, I think. The current example on this thread is perhaps a worst case example of how badly airlines treat their customers, but it is by no means vastly outside the range of appalling service that passes for normal in the airline industry.
Ticket to Hell Is on Offer at Europe?s Airlines: Matthew Lynn - Bloomberg.com
Ticket to Hell Is on Offer at Europe?s Airlines: Matthew Lynn - Bloomberg.com
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Originally Posted by WHBM
There must be a whole manual at the Continental, and the other US majors, PR department for all sorts of eventualities, describing when you include the commuters in your business ("Our network, sir ? Oh yes, we serve 500 cities nationwide") and when you exclude them ("Disgraceful service, sir, on a plane painted in our livery, booked on our flight number, boarded at our terminal and with our in-flight mag in the seats ? Oh no, that is nothing to do with us").
CO (and the rest) have a marketing agreement with their feeders. You paint your planes in our livery and we'll sell tickets for you. Period. The mainline plays no part in day-to-day operations, it is ExpressJet's crew and dispatchers who ****ed this up, and I doubt they even have a direct line to CO.
It's the nature of codeshares, and since these have been going on for 20 years you'd think people (ie. media) would know how it all works by now. It's only the public face of CO etc. that's involved, and while they are technically correct that it's all 'nuffin to do wiv us' they do suffer the adverse publicity. For a few days, then it's business as usual. Not going to change anything.
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Haha. Let me tell you how this works at US airlines. They offer the "compensation" in miles on their frequent flyer scheme. Not a member ? You have to open membership up to get the compensation. And then my god, try and spend them. Miles can seemingly never be redeemed on any route that is useful. Let me go to New York. "No seats available". But you can make normal reservations on every flight. "Available mileage redemption on those flights was set at zero".
Have to agree that the FF programs are more trouble than they are worth. Instead of a credit card that give you airline miles, I got the best card that gives cash back and then just buy my tickets. It works out a lot better than the FF deal, especially for a guy like me who doesn't fly much.
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47 people and not one with a set of balls????? Is this an american thing? Sit on the plane and say nothing? I would like to see the crew tell a crowd of Irish people that they cant get off. 3 hours maybe, but then I would demand that they open the doors and let me out as they are holding me against my will and its false arrest. So what if you cant get on the plane again, so what if you have to get another flight. So be it, but nobody is keeping me on an aircraft for 9 hours sitting on the ground. What are they going to do? Threaten to call the police and have me arrested? Go ahead, I want to get off anyway!!!
Shining Example, apparently...
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You're not wrong, airborne - and many here have expressed surprise that nobody attempted to self-disembark, or simply called the local police to report unlawful detention.
Once the crew went out of hours, what happened ? Did they stay on the aircraft or did they leave and go to a hotel for their rest period, the intention being that at the end of this they would come back to the aircraft in the morning and restart, along with the pax who had been stuck on board all night. Who, if anyone, stayed with the pax ?
If there were no screeners available then how would the rested crew, or any relief crew, get back airside ?
Whatever the circumstances, the FAA should not be sitting on their hands. They should be looking at pulling ExpressJet's AOC for this. There seem to be half-a-dozen or more regs they could be picked up on in five minutes here, it's just a question of attitude.
If there were no screeners available then how would the rested crew, or any relief crew, get back airside ?
Whatever the circumstances, the FAA should not be sitting on their hands. They should be looking at pulling ExpressJet's AOC for this. There seem to be half-a-dozen or more regs they could be picked up on in five minutes here, it's just a question of attitude.
So what happens in such a situation if a pax calls the FA, complaining of shortness of breath, pain in chest and left arm etc. You now have a medical emergency, so chunks of airport have to open up -TSA or no TSA. But it sure seems the carrier made a total mess of it, and maybe someone will sue - and do well out of it. Probably the carrier is really paying Continental.....
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Diversions happen, and the delays caused as a consequence are inevitable to varying degrees. Sometimes a plan is formulated that for any number of reasons fails to come to fruition, thereby adding to the delay. However there comes a point when it is painfully obvious that something needs to be done imminently.
This was a domestic flight landing at a domestic airport. There is no screening requirement for passengers leaving such a flight, nor is there any immigration or customs requirement. If the passengers couldn't be accomodated in the terminal on a short term basis, and they couldn't be re-boarded in any event due to the lack of facility, then there was clearly no other option than to accomodate them overnight or redirect them by other means of transport.
This should have fallen to the carriers relevant operations department in the first instance. Failing that the Commander of the flight should have liased with the local handling agent (if there was one) or directly with his own operations department to put the necessary arrangments in place.
For whatever reason this wasn't done, it was clearly a monumental screw up, and one that is attracting publicity because it is so rare. Undoubtably the costs now will far exceed that of a few hotel rooms and a few taxi cabs.
This is often what happens when you have people in charge who either cannot make a decision, or are too timid to make the right one!
This was a domestic flight landing at a domestic airport. There is no screening requirement for passengers leaving such a flight, nor is there any immigration or customs requirement. If the passengers couldn't be accomodated in the terminal on a short term basis, and they couldn't be re-boarded in any event due to the lack of facility, then there was clearly no other option than to accomodate them overnight or redirect them by other means of transport.
This should have fallen to the carriers relevant operations department in the first instance. Failing that the Commander of the flight should have liased with the local handling agent (if there was one) or directly with his own operations department to put the necessary arrangments in place.
For whatever reason this wasn't done, it was clearly a monumental screw up, and one that is attracting publicity because it is so rare. Undoubtably the costs now will far exceed that of a few hotel rooms and a few taxi cabs.
This is often what happens when you have people in charge who either cannot make a decision, or are too timid to make the right one!
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Minnesota politeness
Airbourne:
It's a Minnesota thing. I was also amazed that no pax decided simply to pull the door exit lever. But people in Minnesota are known for being far more compliant and polite than than the average Yank. Wouldn't have wanted to raise a scene, you betcha.
It's a Minnesota thing. I was also amazed that no pax decided simply to pull the door exit lever. But people in Minnesota are known for being far more compliant and polite than than the average Yank. Wouldn't have wanted to raise a scene, you betcha.
Captain pleads on behalf of passengers
Sometimes even when flight deck crew, CC, and dispatch are all working in (apparent) harmony, things still go sour....
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009...ight.html?_r=1
I guess this is the right forum - it's news and it crosses several job titles. But given the first sentence in the story, maybe "Fragrant Harbor" would have been an appropriate forum, too.
8^)
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009...ight.html?_r=1
I guess this is the right forum - it's news and it crosses several job titles. But given the first sentence in the story, maybe "Fragrant Harbor" would have been an appropriate forum, too.
8^)
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The TSA boogeyman strikes again! 
Trash du Blanc
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Don't blame the TSA on this one. The passengers were screened and inside the security perimeter. And I'll wager all the walkup doors on the jetways are not locked from the outside.
A simple call to 911 would have gotten an airport policeman on scene and an escort for all the passengers to go inside. The captain was looking to Houston dispatch for leadership. And we see how that worked out.
An alternate scheme - taxi to the corporate FBO on the field and deplane. Just takes a little initiative.
A simple call to 911 would have gotten an airport policeman on scene and an escort for all the passengers to go inside. The captain was looking to Houston dispatch for leadership. And we see how that worked out.
An alternate scheme - taxi to the corporate FBO on the field and deplane. Just takes a little initiative.
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Where I live calling 911 for something that is not a true emergency can get you jail time (though normally just a nasty fine). As for going to the FBO, Internet rumor is that the airplane did not have any stairs and thus was dependent on a jetway or external stairs for getting the people off -- which pretty much kills the FBO option.
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experience
never on an old timer pilot would this have happened! Learn from the past, costumer comes first, this scenario is terrible. No Belly Aching from the CREW!!!!
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suspicious
so they diverted...bad wx...if they had lots of fuel they could have held...but they didn't and they diverted.
so when did they get additional fuel at Rochester airport? AND did they refuel with no escape route for the passengers? At our airline *major&*, you can't fuel a plane unless the door is open and the passengers could get out to the jetway...just in case.
some quick questions for those who fly the EMB145:
1. does it have air stairs, stairs onbaord the plane for passengers to deplane and if so, where are they located?
2. What is the max fuel load for a fully loaded plane? In terms of hours or miles or both?
AND dear dumb regional pilots. If you can't get help , call the local fire department and ask them for help. Explain that the firemen could drive slowly and carefullly and arrive at the plane, aid in deplaning to a safe environment.
AND, dear dumb regional pilot and regional freaking airline dispatchers...IF you couldn't get a bus to get the folks to Minneapolis...why not get taxi cabs to take them to local hotels?
oh...the answer is money.
and stupidity!
I've been to Rochester, Minn and its a fine large town with a world renowned medical facility *mayo clinic*
ha
I hope some bright news reporter reads this and asks some tough questions!
idiots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AND 742...calling 911 and immediately saying, this is not an emergency, but can you help me out? usually works just fine with no jail time. Indeed, in my neck of the woods 911 can be used as long as it doesn't interfere with real emegencies. USE some smarts.
one could also ask information on a cell phone for the non emergency number for the local fire department or local police department.
I would like to think that pilots can think...and even posters on the forum could think
and I would like to think that an FBO at a nice town like Rochester , Minn could manage some sort of portable stairs. Calling the FBO would certainly get a twenty four hour response to something like fuel, at a higher charge of course.
THIS WHOLE THING IS RIGHT UP THERE WITH some of the dumbest things in aviation that I have seen.
so when did they get additional fuel at Rochester airport? AND did they refuel with no escape route for the passengers? At our airline *major&*, you can't fuel a plane unless the door is open and the passengers could get out to the jetway...just in case.
some quick questions for those who fly the EMB145:
1. does it have air stairs, stairs onbaord the plane for passengers to deplane and if so, where are they located?
2. What is the max fuel load for a fully loaded plane? In terms of hours or miles or both?
AND dear dumb regional pilots. If you can't get help , call the local fire department and ask them for help. Explain that the firemen could drive slowly and carefullly and arrive at the plane, aid in deplaning to a safe environment.
AND, dear dumb regional pilot and regional freaking airline dispatchers...IF you couldn't get a bus to get the folks to Minneapolis...why not get taxi cabs to take them to local hotels?
oh...the answer is money.
and stupidity!
I've been to Rochester, Minn and its a fine large town with a world renowned medical facility *mayo clinic*
ha
I hope some bright news reporter reads this and asks some tough questions!
idiots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AND 742...calling 911 and immediately saying, this is not an emergency, but can you help me out? usually works just fine with no jail time. Indeed, in my neck of the woods 911 can be used as long as it doesn't interfere with real emegencies. USE some smarts.
one could also ask information on a cell phone for the non emergency number for the local fire department or local police department.
I would like to think that pilots can think...and even posters on the forum could think
and I would like to think that an FBO at a nice town like Rochester , Minn could manage some sort of portable stairs. Calling the FBO would certainly get a twenty four hour response to something like fuel, at a higher charge of course.
THIS WHOLE THING IS RIGHT UP THERE WITH some of the dumbest things in aviation that I have seen.
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742
Where I live calling 911 for something that is not a true emergency can get you jail time (though normally just a nasty fine)
Somewhere we forgot as a nation that people, human beings are on these aircraft and the ignorant majority in this forum that refers to them as SLF need a damb awakining as they are your bread and butter and possibly your family, neighbors freinds etc.etc.