what about the geography lesson!
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what about the geography lesson!
With so many young people now travelling from the UK to Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece etc it is a pity pilots don't offer a bit of information re the geography at ground level. On the last 10 or so flights i've made there has been no front end announcements of what can be seen either to left or right; mountain ranges, large cities etc. Could keep the younger ones interested and also could improve their knowledge of Europe.
Never mind the young people - I know of a good few adults who could do with a Geography lesson as well.
I have also noticed over the past few years a reduction in flight deck announcements en route although I suppose more and more aircraft are fitted with maps etc and pax don't want to hear such announcements as Avman says.
Nivsy
I have also noticed over the past few years a reduction in flight deck announcements en route although I suppose more and more aircraft are fitted with maps etc and pax don't want to hear such announcements as Avman says.
Nivsy
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While such information may certainly be educational to the folks in back, in the cockpit we have a bit more to do than be tour guides. Our job is to get you as the passenger, or your cargo and luggage, and often both, from A to B safely. This involves considerable complexity, not the least of which involves looking for other traffic, navigating, communicating, and handling a variety of tasks involving hundreds of controlsl and indications in the cockpit. Simultaneously.
Where some time allows, some crews are more than happy to provide a little information. Personally, when I'm traveling somewhere as a passenger, I find such announcements a nuisance. They interrupt music or a movie, they are barely audible and difficult to discern, and seldom can I hear what is said, let alone understand it.
If one wishes to learn geography, an atlas can be had for a very small price.
Where some time allows, some crews are more than happy to provide a little information. Personally, when I'm traveling somewhere as a passenger, I find such announcements a nuisance. They interrupt music or a movie, they are barely audible and difficult to discern, and seldom can I hear what is said, let alone understand it.
If one wishes to learn geography, an atlas can be had for a very small price.
nivsy
You've pretty much got it in one. The frequent flyers want to sleep/work/watch the movies ( I know, not on all flights)...most of the passengers haven't got a window seat anyway , the Cabin Crew want the PA for sales purposes on some airlines, etc, etc.........so all in all most outfits are not keen on frequent use of the PA.
(...Guppy beat me to it|)
(...Guppy beat me to it|)
This involves considerable complexity, not the least of which involves looking for other traffic, navigating, communicating, and handling a variety of tasks involving hundreds of controlsl and indications in the cockpit. Simultaneously.
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Geography is a lesson best learned in school at GL, not at FL320 and is best taught by a teacher. Failing that I have always found Google Earth to be very good or, as Guppy says, an atlas is a very good standby. If anyone is interested in the physical features of the land they are flying over they will have done at least a little research but most don't even know how to say please or thank you and that is when they are on the way back.
"on the left you will see the - oh sh*t, the no 1 is playing up, NO DONT PRESS THAT. Bugger, its gone, well it was a range of mountains and I got distracted looking up the name. On the right is a large expanse of water with an interesting hist..... What do you mean the no 2 is looking dodgy? I SAID DONT PRESS THAT. I'll have to get back to you on the geography thing...."
And that is if you could make anything out over the PA, most of it sounds like it is spoken backwards in Greek with marbles in the mouth and a bucket over the head.
Not a good idea.
Awaiting incoming.
"on the left you will see the - oh sh*t, the no 1 is playing up, NO DONT PRESS THAT. Bugger, its gone, well it was a range of mountains and I got distracted looking up the name. On the right is a large expanse of water with an interesting hist..... What do you mean the no 2 is looking dodgy? I SAID DONT PRESS THAT. I'll have to get back to you on the geography thing...."
And that is if you could make anything out over the PA, most of it sounds like it is spoken backwards in Greek with marbles in the mouth and a bucket over the head.
Not a good idea.
Awaiting incoming.
Shining Example, apparently...
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The only commentary I recall from recent years was a southbound approach into EWR. "Passengers on the left may wish to look out of the window, for a wonderful view of the Manhatten skyline highlighted by the setting sun. For passengers on the right... welcome to Newark, New Jersey." 
I'm with the majority in general - prefer to work, sleep or watch a movie inflight, and I'm a bit annoyed by anything non-essential that interrupts me. If anything's changed in the last 20 years, it's that many people fly more frequently so the "ooh" factor is diminished, and skies are busier so there's less time for commentary from the flight deck.
What *really* worries me is the next few years. "Hey mom, I'm on the plane, I can see our house, wooohoo." How much is a learjet again?
I'm with the majority in general - prefer to work, sleep or watch a movie inflight, and I'm a bit annoyed by anything non-essential that interrupts me. If anything's changed in the last 20 years, it's that many people fly more frequently so the "ooh" factor is diminished, and skies are busier so there's less time for commentary from the flight deck.
What *really* worries me is the next few years. "Hey mom, I'm on the plane, I can see our house, wooohoo." How much is a learjet again?
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Most of our pax (regional Vic and Tas - Australia) only really want to know when you're going to arrive (i.e. if we're late) and the local weather.
We get very few enquiries as to "What is that town/lake/river etc.".
HandyAndy, the difference over the past 20 years is that 20 years ago there wasn't the same level of IFE in the cabin. Today, there is much more to entertain the pax, and most of them regard Flight Deck announcements as a nuisance, IMHO.
My 2c
DIVOSH!
We get very few enquiries as to "What is that town/lake/river etc.".
Has this changed that much in the last 20 years? I remember many years ago PA's from the flight deck letting pax know about anything interesting en route.
My 2c
DIVOSH!
That's absolutely true Di_Vosh. What I was actually trying to say in my rather "pussyfooting" way was that many (not all) can't be bothered.
I recall a few years ago the Capt. of a CX 744 doing a pre-take off briefing to the pax in English and then immediately repeating it in Cantonese. Full marks.
I recall a few years ago the Capt. of a CX 744 doing a pre-take off briefing to the pax in English and then immediately repeating it in Cantonese. Full marks.
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The geography PA thing has been frequently debated - there are two schools of thought (can't get enough vs. don't want any) that are mutually exclusive. Whatever is done will be right for some and wrong for others. A really inaudible or incompetent PA will guarantee upsetting everybody.
A moving map display on the IFE helps considerably. As an FA, very occasionally, I have broken into the IFE with a very short PA, along the lines of "Ladies & Gentlemen, sorry to interrupt your entertainment, but there is an excellent view of Las Vegas on the right hand side" and then get off and shut up. On other occasions, a simple cabin walk through telling folks seated on the right by a window of the same thing will do. Given that people can see you coming and pointing (with a smile) outside the window, explanation requiring removal of headphones is often not required - this method has the advantage of adding a more human and personal touch than a mass PA.
A moving map display on the IFE helps considerably. As an FA, very occasionally, I have broken into the IFE with a very short PA, along the lines of "Ladies & Gentlemen, sorry to interrupt your entertainment, but there is an excellent view of Las Vegas on the right hand side" and then get off and shut up. On other occasions, a simple cabin walk through telling folks seated on the right by a window of the same thing will do. Given that people can see you coming and pointing (with a smile) outside the window, explanation requiring removal of headphones is often not required - this method has the advantage of adding a more human and personal touch than a mass PA.
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Flying from Aukland to Christchurch a few years ago, I could follow most of it on a paper map I had with me, and at one stage the steward pointed out where his parents live.
The time I realised I needed to get a life was when I was flying into Sharm and thinking to myself "hmm, that's a great rift shoulder", when someone behind was talking about mountains (the problem of being a geologist working on Middle East structural geology)
The time I realised I needed to get a life was when I was flying into Sharm and thinking to myself "hmm, that's a great rift shoulder", when someone behind was talking about mountains (the problem of being a geologist working on Middle East structural geology)
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I think the crew saying something to the PAX is a good thing, route, weather etc, its all informative IMHO.
I used to love flying First Choice, the crew were always very friendly and chatted to the PAX when you got on the aircraft and off. Along with good announcements en-route.
I remember going to LAX from LHR in 2004, sitting on the ramp, "This is the Captain Speaking, the flight to Los Angeles is approximately 10 hours and 54 minutes" and that was the only thing he said, quite strange I though for an 11 hour flight.
I used to love flying First Choice, the crew were always very friendly and chatted to the PAX when you got on the aircraft and off. Along with good announcements en-route.
I remember going to LAX from LHR in 2004, sitting on the ramp, "This is the Captain Speaking, the flight to Los Angeles is approximately 10 hours and 54 minutes" and that was the only thing he said, quite strange I though for an 11 hour flight.
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As TightSlot says, we can't win. Some pax want as much information as possible, others just want the arrival time and weather, some don't even listen.
I'll try and pitch PAs towards the target audience, i.e. on business flights I'll keep it short and sweet, if we're full of holidaymakers I'll try and give a bit more detail on the route, arrival runway etc.
SNS3Guppy is absolutely right, however - we can be surprisingly busy upfront, even in the cruise, and PAs are way down the priority list. Some ATC sectors (particularly around London) are so busy that it's a challenge to go off at get the arrival ATIS, never mind chat with the passengers.
I'll try and pitch PAs towards the target audience, i.e. on business flights I'll keep it short and sweet, if we're full of holidaymakers I'll try and give a bit more detail on the route, arrival runway etc.
SNS3Guppy is absolutely right, however - we can be surprisingly busy upfront, even in the cruise, and PAs are way down the priority list. Some ATC sectors (particularly around London) are so busy that it's a challenge to go off at get the arrival ATIS, never mind chat with the passengers.
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How times change
100 years ago (OK, 1981), coming back from Munich on the evening BA Trident we flew overhead Brussels. Pilot announces the fact and then does a quick left-right turn to give both sides a better look.
Happy days.
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Remember an old Skipper giving the briefest of geography lessons between GLA and BEB.
"Skye to the right and above..........sea to the left and below......landing at Benny in 15 minutes!"
It was his little joke.
"Skye to the right and above..........sea to the left and below......landing at Benny in 15 minutes!"
It was his little joke.
I can remember some 10 or so years ago being on a flight from LAX to PHX with Captain Speaking giving us a running commentary on what was below, left, and right of us with details down to showbiz stars' ranches/homes which could be seen! About 25 mins into the flight said Capt came on to say that he would have to discontinue his guided tour commentary because some pax (I personally think it was most pax actually) wanted some peace and quiet!
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I was on a Jetstar flight from Melbourne to Bangkok this time last year and noticed a lot of manoeuvring happening whilst we were over central Australia. Minutes later, an announcement from the flight deck mentioned that we were passing Uluru (Ayers Rock) and those on the left will be able to see it. Couldn't help wondering whether the pilots were manoeuvring for weather (unlikely as it was clear all the way to the ground) or that they were positioning the aircraft to give us a better look at Uluru from 36,000 ft! If this is so, then my hats off to them for making the effort!
Before this, the last time I heard a geographical landmark announcement from the flight deck was on a Qantas 707 in the 70's from Melbourne to Singapore. 4 hours after departure, the Captain came on the PA and announced that we were about to leave the Australian coast at Derby. As a young child, this impressed upon me just how big the Australian continent is, taking 4 hours of flying to cross from one end of the country to the other.
I like the geography lessons on flights, but then I guess, pilots on airliners are flying IFR where waypoints have no reference to visual references on the ground so if they're not interested in the geography themselves, then they probably wouldn't know too much about what's below.
Before this, the last time I heard a geographical landmark announcement from the flight deck was on a Qantas 707 in the 70's from Melbourne to Singapore. 4 hours after departure, the Captain came on the PA and announced that we were about to leave the Australian coast at Derby. As a young child, this impressed upon me just how big the Australian continent is, taking 4 hours of flying to cross from one end of the country to the other.
I like the geography lessons on flights, but then I guess, pilots on airliners are flying IFR where waypoints have no reference to visual references on the ground so if they're not interested in the geography themselves, then they probably wouldn't know too much about what's below.
Last edited by mingalababya; 17th Jul 2009 at 12:18.
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For many if not all of the reasons already given, the PA's that are given need to be measured. Most aircraft have IFE systems these days and passengers often rent the facilities. As such frequent and unnecessary interruptions are not particularly welcome.
We usually give a concise route review as part of the PA once established in the cruise. This is combined with a brief review of the en-route and destination weather as well as the anticipated ETA, together with any important safety reminders. On a long flight it is also desirable to provide one or two updates that may include pointing out a local feature of interest or a position desciption. This serves to remind the passengers that we haven't forgotten they are still there. This is usually co-ordinated with the cabin crew so that it takes place at a convenient point in the entertainment programme. We might interrupt for a particular item of interest, and certainly for a safety announcement.
During night flights people do not want to be disturbed any more than necessary. It is often also the case that even during the day, people have been up early or are still tired because of prior travel, and also don't want to be bombarded with announcements. On top of this, as somebody already mentioned, the pilots are always monitoring and these announcements take one of them out of that loop. At times this is necessary, but those times should be kept to a minimum.
It is a fond idea that youngsters conception of geography might be in any meaningful way enhanced by such announcements, but in reality most are more interested in watching re-runs of the simpsons or family guy, or something else they have seen dozens of times before, rather than looking down on Budapest, the Danube or the Dolomites from thirty five thousand feet.
We usually give a concise route review as part of the PA once established in the cruise. This is combined with a brief review of the en-route and destination weather as well as the anticipated ETA, together with any important safety reminders. On a long flight it is also desirable to provide one or two updates that may include pointing out a local feature of interest or a position desciption. This serves to remind the passengers that we haven't forgotten they are still there. This is usually co-ordinated with the cabin crew so that it takes place at a convenient point in the entertainment programme. We might interrupt for a particular item of interest, and certainly for a safety announcement.
During night flights people do not want to be disturbed any more than necessary. It is often also the case that even during the day, people have been up early or are still tired because of prior travel, and also don't want to be bombarded with announcements. On top of this, as somebody already mentioned, the pilots are always monitoring and these announcements take one of them out of that loop. At times this is necessary, but those times should be kept to a minimum.
It is a fond idea that youngsters conception of geography might be in any meaningful way enhanced by such announcements, but in reality most are more interested in watching re-runs of the simpsons or family guy, or something else they have seen dozens of times before, rather than looking down on Budapest, the Danube or the Dolomites from thirty five thousand feet.
