Fly MayBe - wot a shower
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Nice to get a bit of relavent debate going here, with a few obvious exceptions - Icare9 - your intuitive observation shows you obviously completely missed the point - to use your analogy, if I pay for 2 hours parking and get fined after 90 minutes, I think I am entitled to be annoyed.
Phileas Fogg - not all of us have the flight options available to you, and here in sunny Scotlandshire, the LoCo's and charters are fast becoming our only options. Maybe that will change when the BAA / BA / LHR cartel is finally broken by the competition authorities, with the sale of GLA or EDI - we can but hope!
Just to put a couple of points straight, which I missed from the original post. The same bags travelled from EDI the previous week, weighing slightly more - we did use shampoo, shower gel etc, whilst away - without any issue, comment or charge - I guess EDI checkin agents are allowed to use their initiative! To take up NICKMO's point, I did actually weigh our bags before leaving home, (did not have the bathroom scales on holiday for weighing the return bags - too heavy!) and both bags were under the 20kg hold limit, but at EDI checkin, they had each put on a full kilo, making them technically overweight. Maybe I should have asked for the calibration certificates of the scales in JSY, and held up the queue even longer?
For the avoidance of doubt, and the benefit of those in the queue, after our initial incredulity and attempt at reasoning - not behaving like children Reportyourlevel - we quickly repacked the bags, didn't ask to see the calibration certificate finished check in and moved away. No shouting, no petted lips - minimal holdup to the others in the queue. For your information, the one other open check in desk was doing the same thing to a party of 6 or 7 pax, which obviously took much longer. The frank exchange of views took place at the ticket desk, with a FlyBe supervisor, who incidentally Wingo Wango, showed no inclination to commit anything to paper.
The responses on here seem to fall into three camps: 1. Those obviously empolyed by the airline(s) 2. Those who keep to the 'computer says no' mentality, without any flexibility or initiative, hiding behind the T & C's. 3. Those who have some degree of understanding and agreement with the principal I am trying to make.
I am intellegent enough to fully understand (thanks for the enlightenment from some of you) what 20kg hold and 10kg hand means, but to be so inflexible over what was 2.5kg, weighed by potentially inaccurate measuring equipment, and within the paid for total allowance, to me, and I think most right minded people, beggers belief. I would be interested to know how much cash FlyMayBe made on Saturday at JSY, from excess baggage, or did they merely create a huge queue by getting folk to repack their bags at checkin, to take the same weight on the A/C, for little or no financal benefit? The sort of shoot and foot scenario springs to mind here! Or is there a competition between checkin staff to see who can have the longest queue? (cheap I know, but probably true!)
Just to creep the thread slightly, if I may, for all you FlyMayBe employees looking at this, I used to use the airline on a regular, 2 - 3 times a month, basis, GLA / BHX, full price flexible tickets, and actually was a member of your F.F. programme. Then came the shambles which was the aquisition of BA-CONNECT. Unbelievable delays, cancellations, appaling customer service, the lot. I almost became a plane spotter, the amount of time I spent in the observation deck at BHX, waiting for the next flight! I started using the train at that time - what a revalation. City Centre to City Centre quicker than flying, cheaper, more comfortable, more reliable, did not have to strip down to nearly my scants to get on, could carry on a bottle of water / shampoo / cola. Even driving was a better option if there was a couple of us travelling. Me and my colleagues business is now lost to you, and our reason for looking for an alternative was basically due to your airline's cr*p service, albeit some time ago (hopefully improved now, but no experience). We have no dersire to return to the air for the BHX trips, for the reasons stated above. To be honest, when I saw that my holiday company was using FlyMayBe (sorry to keep using the old name, but it kinda stuck in the mind during all the delays and cancellations), I made all attempts to find an alternative, but a 4 hour layover at LGW, waiting for our national flag carrier, being the next best option, was a non starter. How many other people have taken the same steps away from flying - regional airlines need to take note.
Jaycee
Phileas Fogg - not all of us have the flight options available to you, and here in sunny Scotlandshire, the LoCo's and charters are fast becoming our only options. Maybe that will change when the BAA / BA / LHR cartel is finally broken by the competition authorities, with the sale of GLA or EDI - we can but hope!
Just to put a couple of points straight, which I missed from the original post. The same bags travelled from EDI the previous week, weighing slightly more - we did use shampoo, shower gel etc, whilst away - without any issue, comment or charge - I guess EDI checkin agents are allowed to use their initiative! To take up NICKMO's point, I did actually weigh our bags before leaving home, (did not have the bathroom scales on holiday for weighing the return bags - too heavy!) and both bags were under the 20kg hold limit, but at EDI checkin, they had each put on a full kilo, making them technically overweight. Maybe I should have asked for the calibration certificates of the scales in JSY, and held up the queue even longer?
For the avoidance of doubt, and the benefit of those in the queue, after our initial incredulity and attempt at reasoning - not behaving like children Reportyourlevel - we quickly repacked the bags, didn't ask to see the calibration certificate finished check in and moved away. No shouting, no petted lips - minimal holdup to the others in the queue. For your information, the one other open check in desk was doing the same thing to a party of 6 or 7 pax, which obviously took much longer. The frank exchange of views took place at the ticket desk, with a FlyBe supervisor, who incidentally Wingo Wango, showed no inclination to commit anything to paper.
The responses on here seem to fall into three camps: 1. Those obviously empolyed by the airline(s) 2. Those who keep to the 'computer says no' mentality, without any flexibility or initiative, hiding behind the T & C's. 3. Those who have some degree of understanding and agreement with the principal I am trying to make.
I am intellegent enough to fully understand (thanks for the enlightenment from some of you) what 20kg hold and 10kg hand means, but to be so inflexible over what was 2.5kg, weighed by potentially inaccurate measuring equipment, and within the paid for total allowance, to me, and I think most right minded people, beggers belief. I would be interested to know how much cash FlyMayBe made on Saturday at JSY, from excess baggage, or did they merely create a huge queue by getting folk to repack their bags at checkin, to take the same weight on the A/C, for little or no financal benefit? The sort of shoot and foot scenario springs to mind here! Or is there a competition between checkin staff to see who can have the longest queue? (cheap I know, but probably true!)
Just to creep the thread slightly, if I may, for all you FlyMayBe employees looking at this, I used to use the airline on a regular, 2 - 3 times a month, basis, GLA / BHX, full price flexible tickets, and actually was a member of your F.F. programme. Then came the shambles which was the aquisition of BA-CONNECT. Unbelievable delays, cancellations, appaling customer service, the lot. I almost became a plane spotter, the amount of time I spent in the observation deck at BHX, waiting for the next flight! I started using the train at that time - what a revalation. City Centre to City Centre quicker than flying, cheaper, more comfortable, more reliable, did not have to strip down to nearly my scants to get on, could carry on a bottle of water / shampoo / cola. Even driving was a better option if there was a couple of us travelling. Me and my colleagues business is now lost to you, and our reason for looking for an alternative was basically due to your airline's cr*p service, albeit some time ago (hopefully improved now, but no experience). We have no dersire to return to the air for the BHX trips, for the reasons stated above. To be honest, when I saw that my holiday company was using FlyMayBe (sorry to keep using the old name, but it kinda stuck in the mind during all the delays and cancellations), I made all attempts to find an alternative, but a 4 hour layover at LGW, waiting for our national flag carrier, being the next best option, was a non starter. How many other people have taken the same steps away from flying - regional airlines need to take note.
Jaycee
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If you're looking to get a rise from Flybe employees, you'd probably get a bit more credibility - and more thoughtful responses - if you could at least use the correct company name.
With the BA Connect acquisition, Flybe effectively doubled in size overnight. Teething troubles were regrettable, but pretty much inevitable. A lot of people put in a lot of work to make the merger / acquisition a success, and I'd like to think that service and reliability are a whole lot better than the early days.
Flybe are not responsible for you having to 'strip down to nearly my scants' - thank the Department of Transport for that one. If it's any consolation, your pilots and cabin crew have to abide by the same rules - we can lock ourselves in a flightdeck with a big crash axe but can't bring a pot of yoghurt to work.
I don't know if you mean to Jaycee but in your posts you come across as someone who has decided they don't like Flybe very much. Persisting in calling the company 'FlyMayBe' and describing us as a 'shower' simply because the check-in agent enforced the terms and conditions you signed up to suggests you have pretty much made up your mind, and there's not much me, Jim French or anyone else from Flybe can do to change it.
With the BA Connect acquisition, Flybe effectively doubled in size overnight. Teething troubles were regrettable, but pretty much inevitable. A lot of people put in a lot of work to make the merger / acquisition a success, and I'd like to think that service and reliability are a whole lot better than the early days.
Flybe are not responsible for you having to 'strip down to nearly my scants' - thank the Department of Transport for that one. If it's any consolation, your pilots and cabin crew have to abide by the same rules - we can lock ourselves in a flightdeck with a big crash axe but can't bring a pot of yoghurt to work.
I don't know if you mean to Jaycee but in your posts you come across as someone who has decided they don't like Flybe very much. Persisting in calling the company 'FlyMayBe' and describing us as a 'shower' simply because the check-in agent enforced the terms and conditions you signed up to suggests you have pretty much made up your mind, and there's not much me, Jim French or anyone else from Flybe can do to change it.
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G SXTY
You are quite wrong to suggest that I do not like FlyBe, and I'm not having a go, merely trying to stimulate reasoned debate.
As a supplier to me of a service, in this case travel, I have found the service received, in the past, from FlyBe to be less than I would consider to be satisfactory, and have moved my business to an alternative supplier, ie Virgin Trains. This is not purely a FlyBe issue, I and many others, judging by the contents of this forum, find the whole air travel experience in the UK to be hugely unpleasant, for reasons, some of which have been stated previously, whether it be with FlyBe, EZY, FR, BA, BD, or anyone else, so I'm not picking on BE - it was just unfortunate for you, that my recent bad experience happened to be with you, and I do also realise that a lot of the crap at airports is not all the fault of the airlines, but I would point out, that the airlines are the airport customers, and should be taking them to task over the matter!
I would respectfully suggest, with no personal malice, that your post perhaps sums up what is wrong with the airline industry in the UK. Your defence of your employer is admirable, and to be applauded. However, what you seem to fail to grasp is that I am a farepaying customer, with a grievance. Without the SLF, paying the fares, and traveliing with the airlines, there is no need for airlines, and as a consequence, obviously,no airline jobs. Would it not be better if a bit more time was spent looking after those paying the wages, rather than ridiculing (SLF - I ask you!) them, and accepting that some of the criticism of the industry and its procedures has foundation, rather than working out new stealthy ways to prise a few extra quid out of us.
Here's a free idea. Stick a tenner on each ticket, loose all the crappy penal charges, and offer a service that people will readily want to heap praise upon. People living outside the London (all), MAN & BHX areas are more interested in the availability of direct flights which avoid the above, and to be honest, within reason the price is of secondary importance.
In respect of the BACON merger (also done to death on this forum), I'm sure there was a huge amount of difficult work and effort, but is that not what you do - run an airline? The passenger just wants to buy a ticket, turn up at the appointed time, and be taken to the destination on the ticket, on time, without hassle, and in safety. Really not interested in the internal operational problems, until they interfere with the service received.
The new West Coast Main Line service will very soon mean that I can get to London from Glasgow in 4 hours, so not needing an air service for my 15 - 20 trips a year to London. That is not good news for regional air services. Just read that VLM has binned LCY / MAN, because the cannot compete with the train, even though I would consider LCY has to be one of the less unpleasant airport experiences - more to come I'm sure.
You are quite wrong to suggest that I do not like FlyBe, and I'm not having a go, merely trying to stimulate reasoned debate.
As a supplier to me of a service, in this case travel, I have found the service received, in the past, from FlyBe to be less than I would consider to be satisfactory, and have moved my business to an alternative supplier, ie Virgin Trains. This is not purely a FlyBe issue, I and many others, judging by the contents of this forum, find the whole air travel experience in the UK to be hugely unpleasant, for reasons, some of which have been stated previously, whether it be with FlyBe, EZY, FR, BA, BD, or anyone else, so I'm not picking on BE - it was just unfortunate for you, that my recent bad experience happened to be with you, and I do also realise that a lot of the crap at airports is not all the fault of the airlines, but I would point out, that the airlines are the airport customers, and should be taking them to task over the matter!
I would respectfully suggest, with no personal malice, that your post perhaps sums up what is wrong with the airline industry in the UK. Your defence of your employer is admirable, and to be applauded. However, what you seem to fail to grasp is that I am a farepaying customer, with a grievance. Without the SLF, paying the fares, and traveliing with the airlines, there is no need for airlines, and as a consequence, obviously,no airline jobs. Would it not be better if a bit more time was spent looking after those paying the wages, rather than ridiculing (SLF - I ask you!) them, and accepting that some of the criticism of the industry and its procedures has foundation, rather than working out new stealthy ways to prise a few extra quid out of us.
Here's a free idea. Stick a tenner on each ticket, loose all the crappy penal charges, and offer a service that people will readily want to heap praise upon. People living outside the London (all), MAN & BHX areas are more interested in the availability of direct flights which avoid the above, and to be honest, within reason the price is of secondary importance.
In respect of the BACON merger (also done to death on this forum), I'm sure there was a huge amount of difficult work and effort, but is that not what you do - run an airline? The passenger just wants to buy a ticket, turn up at the appointed time, and be taken to the destination on the ticket, on time, without hassle, and in safety. Really not interested in the internal operational problems, until they interfere with the service received.
The new West Coast Main Line service will very soon mean that I can get to London from Glasgow in 4 hours, so not needing an air service for my 15 - 20 trips a year to London. That is not good news for regional air services. Just read that VLM has binned LCY / MAN, because the cannot compete with the train, even though I would consider LCY has to be one of the less unpleasant airport experiences - more to come I'm sure.
Last edited by jaycee46; 15th Jul 2009 at 13:31. Reason: spelling!
At the time FlyBE became a complete shambles I gave up flying with them. Haven't used them since. I now fly to my regular UK destination (12-16 round trips per year) with the competition. They haven't upset me once and provide a good service. My loyalties are now with them. I get so many "special" limited time offers by e-mail (which then get extended because of their outstanding "success") that I sometimes wonder if Flybe are becoming desperate to fill seats?
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Originally Posted by jaycee46
...merely trying to stimulate reasoned debate.
Sadly, this kind of forum tends to attract this kind of thread and it is rarely attractive, or indeed, of value. A contract was entered into with a company, and when the terms of that contract were enforced the toys come flying out of the cot: As always, the usual suspects are around to raise the tantrum temperature. Rules and agreements are, of course, for application to other people, never with the person experiencing the problem who is always a suitable candidate for "discretion" by virtue of... whatever the writer decides is a valid reason. If not 2.5kgs, what then should be the limit? What degree of "discretion" should be used, how often and to whom? These questions are never addressed appropriately, if at all.
We can, of course, all bemoan the loss of discretion and initiative amongst staff, or the lack of non-LoCo airlines in a particular region, the global avaricious airline conspiracy against the innocent travelling public and whatever reason-du-jour is available. For the record, most airline staff don't like it more than their customers. Airlines will tend to behave like that because that is the Business model that their customers have chosen. Chicken and egg arguments about whether the airlines or the customers started it all are pretty much impossible to resolve, and, given that the evidence is personal and anecdotal, pointless. The most successful airlines in Europe (and further afield) are the LoCo's - that is because customers have chosen, on short-haul that price should be the sole purchasing determinant. The customers are the public, and we are all the public. We have the airline system that we have chosen, and therefore... that we deserve.
As one of TightSlot's "usual suspects", I'll bow out with this: If my colleagues and I were not to use discretion and common sense by the bag full every day of our working lives, I kid you not, you (TightSlot) and your passengers would be spending a great deal more time either on the ground or in the air before reaching your destination! That's why I'm a pain-in-the-ar$e advocate for those two virtues. Over and out.
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While not wishing to "kiss the posterior" of a mod, I think TightSlot's posting sums things up nicely.
Don't forget that excess charges do NOT reflect increased operating costs due to weight, but allow airlines to recoup the revenues they'd otherwise have made in less competitive markets.
The OP latterly suggested "stick[ing] on a tenner" for extras. Nice idea, but in practice more expensive tickets don't compete. "Hidden extras" are a way to redress the balance. The OP did accept these conditions when he originally purchased tickets, or authorised others to act on his behalf.
Talk of "check in commonsense" is misplaced. In so many areas, discretion has been removed from customer-facing roles so that carefully calculated algorithms advance the survival - not prosperity - of competitors in a crowded market. You might not like it. I don't like it much, either. But I won't delay a queue of hopeful travellers by struggling with my side of the bargain.
Oddly enough, the US "invented" cheap air travel and now rewards regulars with baggage perks, upgrades and express security - for no additional cost. We reciprocate by returning, time and again. What are my once-beloved Europeans waiting for?
Don't forget that excess charges do NOT reflect increased operating costs due to weight, but allow airlines to recoup the revenues they'd otherwise have made in less competitive markets.
The OP latterly suggested "stick[ing] on a tenner" for extras. Nice idea, but in practice more expensive tickets don't compete. "Hidden extras" are a way to redress the balance. The OP did accept these conditions when he originally purchased tickets, or authorised others to act on his behalf.
Talk of "check in commonsense" is misplaced. In so many areas, discretion has been removed from customer-facing roles so that carefully calculated algorithms advance the survival - not prosperity - of competitors in a crowded market. You might not like it. I don't like it much, either. But I won't delay a queue of hopeful travellers by struggling with my side of the bargain.
Oddly enough, the US "invented" cheap air travel and now rewards regulars with baggage perks, upgrades and express security - for no additional cost. We reciprocate by returning, time and again. What are my once-beloved Europeans waiting for?
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Where the weight is DOES matter
Getting back to the first post
Are you sure about that? You said that you flew in a Q400. I can assure you that any of the Dash8 series of aircraft really do care where the extra weight is.
The Q400 has 72 seats (or up to 76 depending on fittings) and is one of the few passenger aircraft that are longer than their wingspan. The baggage hold is at the rear of the passenger compartment and not underneath the passenger compartment as it is in most of the larger jet aircraft.
Taking the OP's position to it's extreme conclusion, you might have a situation where all the pax have their "extra 10 kg" in their hold luggage. That is up to 760 kg right down the back of the aicraft (instead of being spread around evenly). If that were to happen, the aircraft Weight and Balance would be so far to the rear that the aircraft may be uncontrollable in flight.
When that happens, the people in load control have two options:
1. Remove hold luggage (get your bags later)
2. Remove passengers (the last few rows of the aircraft kept empty)
So you may want to entertain the possibility that weight restrictions are there for a reason. At least in this case.
DIVOSH!
The aircraft is not really bothered whether it is in the hold or in the overhead locker.
The Q400 has 72 seats (or up to 76 depending on fittings) and is one of the few passenger aircraft that are longer than their wingspan. The baggage hold is at the rear of the passenger compartment and not underneath the passenger compartment as it is in most of the larger jet aircraft.
Taking the OP's position to it's extreme conclusion, you might have a situation where all the pax have their "extra 10 kg" in their hold luggage. That is up to 760 kg right down the back of the aicraft (instead of being spread around evenly). If that were to happen, the aircraft Weight and Balance would be so far to the rear that the aircraft may be uncontrollable in flight.
When that happens, the people in load control have two options:
1. Remove hold luggage (get your bags later)
2. Remove passengers (the last few rows of the aircraft kept empty)
So you may want to entertain the possibility that weight restrictions are there for a reason. At least in this case.
DIVOSH!
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WingoWango
If that's true then it's well hidden and not promoted. You get 30kg if you pay for a flexible fare. The rewards scheme does allow you access to the lounges by cashing in points, and "free" flights (the quotes are there because you do have to pay taxes and charges) but not AFAIK extra luggage allowances.
I am constantly struggling to make my hand and hold luggage fit into the FlyBe baggage allowances and the onward long haul allowances, and would really welcome trading points or sensible cash for an extra cabin or hold allowance. Oddly the extra hold allowance is available on an interline ticket, but that isn't available to me.
The point made about customers trying to stretch whatever allowance they are given is so true.
This like you say does reward regulars with extra baggage allowance (30kg hold and 10kg cabin),
I am constantly struggling to make my hand and hold luggage fit into the FlyBe baggage allowances and the onward long haul allowances, and would really welcome trading points or sensible cash for an extra cabin or hold allowance. Oddly the extra hold allowance is available on an interline ticket, but that isn't available to me.
The point made about customers trying to stretch whatever allowance they are given is so true.
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Haven't a clue, could you look at booking a through ticket for your onwards?
Standard allowances are generally Economy 20kgs, business/premium 30kgs, first 40kgs. This does not include The Americas.
You should always check with your actual carrier and please do this before arriving at the airport.
Standard allowances are generally Economy 20kgs, business/premium 30kgs, first 40kgs. This does not include The Americas.
You should always check with your actual carrier and please do this before arriving at the airport.
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Wingo Wango
If you take the time to do some research you will find that satisfied customers tell several people of their experience and dissatisfied people tell several times more, thus amplifying the complaint.
That is why you recall my post elsewhere and why I have told many people since this flight about the experience and I will continue to to so.
Your remark about compensation is quite insulting, if you work for Flybe, you should be ashamed for making that comment, as I have never suggested that I wished for any compensation.
You don't need to understand anything more than the facts I posted, I was entitled to receive lounge access and snacks/drinks and did not.
Furthermore, when I asked for a comment form, the airline did not have any available; I was going to complete one and ask the crew to send it to their ops department.
If you think that a busy person like me is going to take the time and trouble to trawl through a website to find a contact form, you are wrong.
That is the equivalent of being punished for the airline failing to provide the right service level and customer service 101 (which seems to have missed the reading list of most airline employees) suggests that it is unwise to rely on such mechanisms and that a company should make it easy for customers to complain, so that the negative can be turned into a positive and the customer retained.
When similar service breakdowns have happened on other airlines, the no 1 CC member has asked permission to make a report on my behalf and the airline has contacted me to apologise.
As there are plenty of other carriers out there, I have voted with my feet and will not be giving Flybe a second chance, unless it is the only company offering a service on a route. when I need one (which is highly unlikely.)
I think i have seen you post something similar on another thread. But your post lacks enough detail to understand the full picture of your problem. I say this to every other poster who have had problems with airlines and are on PPRuNe complaining. Have you made an effort to express your complaint directly with the company via writing/email/telephone?? If so share the results? If not then stop moaning as doing so on PPRuNe is not going to have any effect on getting you compensated if that is you deserve to be. With all due respect.
That is why you recall my post elsewhere and why I have told many people since this flight about the experience and I will continue to to so.
Your remark about compensation is quite insulting, if you work for Flybe, you should be ashamed for making that comment, as I have never suggested that I wished for any compensation.
You don't need to understand anything more than the facts I posted, I was entitled to receive lounge access and snacks/drinks and did not.
Furthermore, when I asked for a comment form, the airline did not have any available; I was going to complete one and ask the crew to send it to their ops department.
If you think that a busy person like me is going to take the time and trouble to trawl through a website to find a contact form, you are wrong.
That is the equivalent of being punished for the airline failing to provide the right service level and customer service 101 (which seems to have missed the reading list of most airline employees) suggests that it is unwise to rely on such mechanisms and that a company should make it easy for customers to complain, so that the negative can be turned into a positive and the customer retained.
When similar service breakdowns have happened on other airlines, the no 1 CC member has asked permission to make a report on my behalf and the airline has contacted me to apologise.
As there are plenty of other carriers out there, I have voted with my feet and will not be giving Flybe a second chance, unless it is the only company offering a service on a route. when I need one (which is highly unlikely.)
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I'm getting a little confused - are we discussing:
- A passenger who hoped the T&C would be rewritten to his advantage at check-in, or
- A passenger with zero tolerance for mistakes, who had a negative experience but chose not to follow up with the airline?
On reflection, there's a common root cause, and it's nothing to do with airlines or travel.....
- A passenger who hoped the T&C would be rewritten to his advantage at check-in, or
- A passenger with zero tolerance for mistakes, who had a negative experience but chose not to follow up with the airline?
On reflection, there's a common root cause, and it's nothing to do with airlines or travel.....
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I'm getting a little confused - are we discussing:
It seems that Jaycee suffered from totally pointless repacking, so that the check in agent could deliver a SLA.
In my case, the company chose to charge a very high fare, failed to deliver the promised service levels and then did not provide an industry wide/standard comment card to facilitate feedback.
Others in the thread report that they have chosen to take the train to avoid the airport experience or because the Flybe service did not meet their needs.
To go back to the thread title, it commented that Flybe was a 'shower' and I have not seen any evidence to the contrary.
WingoWango, the total number of pax you carry doesn't mean a thing. What counts is yield. The more PREMIUM fare pax you carry the better. They're the ones you can't afford to upset and lose to the competition, be it air, rail or car.
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Here's a free idea. Stick a tenner on each ticket, loose all the crappy penal charges, and offer a service that people will readily want to heap praise upon. People living outside the London (all), MAN & BHX areas are more interested in the availability of direct flights which avoid the above, and to be honest, within reason the price is of secondary importance.
All of this can only be achieved by a combination of the "pile 'em high sell 'em cheap" together with yield management whereby the loss leaders fill a proportion of the plane, thereby making the remaining seats of higher value to the needy and desperate, and most importantly the "smell the coffee" approach, whereby (just like supermarkets) an attractive aroma or inducement gets the customers through the door, where it is anticipated that they will be enticed to open their wallets and spend far more than they were anticipating. For airlines this is the ancillary products they offer. Once it was the expensive sandwiches, drinks and catalogue goods. That has now been expanded into a complete dissection of the whole customer service anatomy. Check in on line = pay extra. Check in at the airport = pay extra. Take a limited amount of baggage = pay extra. Pick a seat or a better place in the queue = pay extra. Want legroom = pay extra. Want flexibility = pay a lot extra. Want more baggage allowance at the airport = pay a lot extra. Fail to turn up on time = Pay a lot extra. Once on board the same captive customer promotions are the final opportunity to part the consumer from their discetionary cash.
If you think any or all of this can be satisfied by "an extra tenner" you are not being even remotely realistic. The idea that everyone will flock to your company if you provide a little more, but charge extra is somewhat naive in that everyone might say "Oh yes definetaly," but far too few actually put their money where their mouths are, and make the proposition worthwhile. You only have to look at the low cost premium carriers that tried this in recent years, all of whom have failed! Look at the "full service" carrriers who are now losing money hand over fist because their profit cabins are simply not selling at any sort of satisfactory profit. Few if any airlines are making any profit from seat sales. The profits (where applicable) are coming from the sales of the ancillary products.
The concept that you might "get away" with a bit extra, or can introduce your own rationale into the process is very wishful thinking in an industry where survival is all about the sale of these ancillary products. £10 you are having a laugh!
Shining Example, apparently...
Join Date: Jul 2001
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The moral of the story is that if a company messes their customers about, the business goes elswhere.
The point of the story is that low margin business models require conditions of contract to be upheld. Customers who refuse to acknowledge this, or demand non-standard provisions, are customers the company is better off without.You have to move with the times. Back in the 80s competition was lower, prices were higher, staff were plentier and the customer was always right. We've moved on. Margins have given way to volumes, costs have been pared and everything goes through the website. Comment cards? Quaint.
The customer can be right - provided they understand the business model. That's what we're working on here...