Boeing 737 - Question about firm landing
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Firstly, I am not the poster from that, appearing thread. I have flown on a flight on a Boeing 737-800, and I will now leave Ryanair out. I was only asking, why when I have flown this flight before, did it feel (and appear) that the plane was coming in too fast. I am not stupid so I know I can't tell the speed of the plane without the device that measures speed.
Secondly, I know landings are expected to be felt, I know that a heavy aircraft at 100+ mph landing is going to be felt. I never said I wanted a pillow soft landing, I wanted a safe landing.
Thirdly, excuse me? But who the hell are you to tell me I know nothing, and start throwing some funny language around - if you really are, and I mean IF a good pilot (you seem like the worst) then you might actually TRY and get the plane down softly. Also, you wouldn't appear so rude.
I asked:
1. Why did the plane touch down harder than usual, and this was hard as there was a loud noise. Was it due to a bit more speed? Was it the pilots decision? Just a simple mistake?
2. How much force the gear can take before it snaps and breaks. After 50,000+ landings, one hard one might just snap it off? It will break if landed too fast?
Now, if they are too difficult to answer - get the hell out of the way.
I know the landings are not going to be feather soft, even on a 747-400 I have felt the landing. Sometimes they are feather soft, but sometimes they are hard. Mostly in the middle, just a slight feeling that the wheels are down.
I would be very grateful for someone to answer those above questions. Without the rude and arrogant part.
Thank you very much.
Nikolai Alexsandr Cezhco
P.S
No more Ryanair in this post, I am talking about the Boeing 737-800
Secondly, I know landings are expected to be felt, I know that a heavy aircraft at 100+ mph landing is going to be felt. I never said I wanted a pillow soft landing, I wanted a safe landing.
Thirdly, excuse me? But who the hell are you to tell me I know nothing, and start throwing some funny language around - if you really are, and I mean IF a good pilot (you seem like the worst) then you might actually TRY and get the plane down softly. Also, you wouldn't appear so rude.
I asked:
1. Why did the plane touch down harder than usual, and this was hard as there was a loud noise. Was it due to a bit more speed? Was it the pilots decision? Just a simple mistake?
2. How much force the gear can take before it snaps and breaks. After 50,000+ landings, one hard one might just snap it off? It will break if landed too fast?
Now, if they are too difficult to answer - get the hell out of the way.
I know the landings are not going to be feather soft, even on a 747-400 I have felt the landing. Sometimes they are feather soft, but sometimes they are hard. Mostly in the middle, just a slight feeling that the wheels are down.
I would be very grateful for someone to answer those above questions. Without the rude and arrogant part.
Thank you very much.
Nikolai Alexsandr Cezhco
P.S
No more Ryanair in this post, I am talking about the Boeing 737-800
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That "funny language" is an essential part of how we calculate the speed that we fly various configurations of the approach at - including the final speed for touch down.
I'll be more than happy for you never to fly on one of my flights. I'm the first to admit when I've made a firmer than normal landing (aside from the fact the CC wont let you forget it for a while! But also, they are sometimes when you just have to put the aircraft down. No doubt you prefer a looong floated greaser of a landing - let me tell you - that way serious trouble can lie.
Your basing it being too fast on what exactly? You had the latest wind speeds and landing weight did you? Were these factors exactly the same as last time you did that exact same flight, to that exact same runway?
I reiterate - it is you who is rude coming on here and accusing a professional pilot (and an entire company in your original sweeping statement) of bad landings.
They do happen, and most of us will admit it, be we don't need it alleged by people with no knowledgeable basis.
What is it you do for a living? Perhaps I could make some sweeping, and possibly grossly incorrect, statements about how you are performing?
Don't fly the B738, so can't answer your "technical" question about what the gear can and can't take. But bear in mind it is replaced after a set amount fo years / cycles, and each landing is very different. Having been involved in some "thumpers" (No - not all mine) and seeing what is recorded on the g recorder, you would be amazed at what they can take before they need a check.
I'll be more than happy for you never to fly on one of my flights. I'm the first to admit when I've made a firmer than normal landing (aside from the fact the CC wont let you forget it for a while! But also, they are sometimes when you just have to put the aircraft down. No doubt you prefer a looong floated greaser of a landing - let me tell you - that way serious trouble can lie.
why when I have flown this flight before, did it feel (and appear) that the plane was coming in too fast. I am not stupid so I know I can't tell the speed of the plane without the device that measures speed.
I reiterate - it is you who is rude coming on here and accusing a professional pilot (and an entire company in your original sweeping statement) of bad landings.
They do happen, and most of us will admit it, be we don't need it alleged by people with no knowledgeable basis.
What is it you do for a living? Perhaps I could make some sweeping, and possibly grossly incorrect, statements about how you are performing?
Don't fly the B738, so can't answer your "technical" question about what the gear can and can't take. But bear in mind it is replaced after a set amount fo years / cycles, and each landing is very different. Having been involved in some "thumpers" (No - not all mine) and seeing what is recorded on the g recorder, you would be amazed at what they can take before they need a check.
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Firstly, I am not the poster from that, appearing thread.
You really are stretching this forum to the limit. B*gger off. (Ohmigod, I'm responding to Nickolai. All is lost!)
What are the chances of a displaced Pole, which Nickolai claims to be, writing 100+ mph
Quite.
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How dare you, I am basing what I am appearing to be true as a passenger. I did not say Ryanair are a bad airline, nor did I suggest they do that on purpose. In fact, I fly with Ryanair a lot.
I will be delighted that I am not on a flight with you flying it.
I prefer a landing, which is not going to cause panic, not a loud bang or lockers and trays rattling. And most times, that's the landing I get. Firm to the bite, aldente! But nothing scary or causing panic.
If you did a rubbish landing, I would not be the only one who would say you're a bad pilot. And I probably would not be the first, others would jump before me.
What is it I do for a living? I work for IBM - based in Portsmouth. As a Russian to Polish/Spanish/English translating, and working on advertisements for the Russian and Spanish market. Vice-versa on the other languages translating. Go ahead and try and make a comment, make it in Russian/Spanish/Polish.
But I will say thank you, as you have slightly answered my last question. That the gear can take a lot before it needs checking, what would make interesting discussion would be what is a lot!
I can see this will get closed, but I think I should answer anyway.
Nikolai
I will be delighted that I am not on a flight with you flying it.
I prefer a landing, which is not going to cause panic, not a loud bang or lockers and trays rattling. And most times, that's the landing I get. Firm to the bite, aldente! But nothing scary or causing panic.
If you did a rubbish landing, I would not be the only one who would say you're a bad pilot. And I probably would not be the first, others would jump before me.
What is it I do for a living? I work for IBM - based in Portsmouth. As a Russian to Polish/Spanish/English translating, and working on advertisements for the Russian and Spanish market. Vice-versa on the other languages translating. Go ahead and try and make a comment, make it in Russian/Spanish/Polish.
But I will say thank you, as you have slightly answered my last question. That the gear can take a lot before it needs checking, what would make interesting discussion would be what is a lot!
I can see this will get closed, but I think I should answer anyway.
Nikolai
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First of all, learn how to spell.
Nickolai - Nikolai
Pole - Pol
Secondly, how dare you? Who the hell are you to tell me to b*gger off? I am leaving as this God damn forum is full of arrogant English pilots - who can't land a plane.
For Christ sake.
Nickolai - Nikolai
Pole - Pol
Secondly, how dare you? Who the hell are you to tell me to b*gger off? I am leaving as this God damn forum is full of arrogant English pilots - who can't land a plane.
For Christ sake.
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I can see this will get closed, but I think I should answer anyway.
So before it does, did you read Tight Slot's advice? Tight Slot was trying to lighten the load on you, but you've obviously ignored it. Go back to the post, then go to the Forum FAQ's, and read:
"WHY WAS MY LANDING 'HARD' AND SHOULD IT HAVE BEEN? - See HERE & HERE"
Once you've done that, maybe you will be wiser.
What is it I do for a living? I work for IBM - based in Portsmouth. As a Russian to Polish/Spanish/English translating, and working on advertisements for the Russian and Spanish market. Vice-versa on the other languages translating. Go ahead and try and make a comment, make it in Russian/Spanish/Polish.
If you did a rubbish landing, I would not be the only one who would say you're a bad pilot.
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Please forgive me, I can not seem to find that FAQ. I can't find that post either.
I will apologize to you, dwshimoda. After all, YOU fly the plane. I am just the passanger. I owe respect to you for getting the plane down, safely. For that, I owe my respect - and I offer my deepest apologies. I am sorry if I offended you in anyway.
Nikolai
P.S
I will not offer anything to the idiot, who tried to find a word for bollocks in Polish.
I can certainly think of words to describe you in Polish/Russian/Spanish for you...
I will apologize to you, dwshimoda. After all, YOU fly the plane. I am just the passanger. I owe respect to you for getting the plane down, safely. For that, I owe my respect - and I offer my deepest apologies. I am sorry if I offended you in anyway.
Nikolai
P.S
I will not offer anything to the idiot, who tried to find a word for bollocks in Polish.
I can certainly think of words to describe you in Polish/Russian/Spanish for you...
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Nikolai...
...the hyperlink is here:
http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf...slf-forum.html
And it's post #19 on page 1 of this thread, made by Tight Slot - Moderator.
You don't need to apologise to me - I wasn't flying your aircraft! You have to understand that every pilot always strives for a great landing - they just don't always happen. If it was an exact science, it would be easy! Although I suspect people like Rainboe rarely do thumpers, thanks to their considerable experience.
What I will say is that if you are ever unsure of a landing, or anything on a flight - ask the crew! We are always happy to have people on the Flight Deck (on the ground - obviously) and, speaking for myself, if I've planted it down, I'll explain to you why it was necessary, or if it was my cock up - apologise to you.
http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf...slf-forum.html
And it's post #19 on page 1 of this thread, made by Tight Slot - Moderator.
You don't need to apologise to me - I wasn't flying your aircraft! You have to understand that every pilot always strives for a great landing - they just don't always happen. If it was an exact science, it would be easy! Although I suspect people like Rainboe rarely do thumpers, thanks to their considerable experience.
What I will say is that if you are ever unsure of a landing, or anything on a flight - ask the crew! We are always happy to have people on the Flight Deck (on the ground - obviously) and, speaking for myself, if I've planted it down, I'll explain to you why it was necessary, or if it was my cock up - apologise to you.
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Hard Landings
Hello - "Hard Landing Victims"
xxx
Just a retired pilot here, in his rocking chair since November.
Quite a few years as pilot with airlines, and many "hours" with airplanes.
Flew B-707, B-727, B-747, DC-8 - even the little Learjets too.
And I was a pilot instructor/examiner in all these types.
xxx
No need to say, I had "hard landings" - a few.
Because did not handle plane well, or there was bad wind conditions.
Or maybe my co-pilot made a mistake, or lacked experience on type.
Even it was a new pilot I was doing training with.
The easiest plane I flew was the 747, for these last 19 years.
So a big airplane is easier than a small one... Yes. It so happens.
I NEVER had a hard landing in a 747 - NEVER.
The most difficult was the Learjet - Very unstable little thing.
So yes, hard landings happen sometimes.
xxx
What happens in a hard landing...?
What is the first evidence of a hard landing...(in all airplanes)...?
Oxygen masks falling in cabin, when the plane hits the runway.
Maybe a few, like a dozen, maybe all of them in the passenger cabin.
In our pilot jargon, we call that "the RUBBER JUNGLE" in the cabin.
This applies to ALL airplanes I flew, from small jet to Jumbos.
xxx
If I had a bad landing, I knew it, if F/A says "some O2 masks did fall...!"
So, accuse pilots of a hard landing, ask yourself "did the masks fall...?"
That is your first clue. I remember a landing in a 707. Almost all fell down.
Our engineer inspected the plane. No damage. Quite a job to stow all masks.
xxx
So, if and when you come to Pprune saying hard landing...
How about the masks in the cabin...? Did they fall...? Some...? All of them...?
If none did fall, it was a firm landing, YES. Not a hard landing.
Did I make my point...?
xxx
Thank you.
Happy contrails
xxx
Just a retired pilot here, in his rocking chair since November.
Quite a few years as pilot with airlines, and many "hours" with airplanes.
Flew B-707, B-727, B-747, DC-8 - even the little Learjets too.
And I was a pilot instructor/examiner in all these types.
xxx
No need to say, I had "hard landings" - a few.
Because did not handle plane well, or there was bad wind conditions.
Or maybe my co-pilot made a mistake, or lacked experience on type.
Even it was a new pilot I was doing training with.
The easiest plane I flew was the 747, for these last 19 years.
So a big airplane is easier than a small one... Yes. It so happens.
I NEVER had a hard landing in a 747 - NEVER.
The most difficult was the Learjet - Very unstable little thing.
So yes, hard landings happen sometimes.
xxx
What happens in a hard landing...?
What is the first evidence of a hard landing...(in all airplanes)...?
Oxygen masks falling in cabin, when the plane hits the runway.
Maybe a few, like a dozen, maybe all of them in the passenger cabin.
In our pilot jargon, we call that "the RUBBER JUNGLE" in the cabin.
This applies to ALL airplanes I flew, from small jet to Jumbos.
xxx
If I had a bad landing, I knew it, if F/A says "some O2 masks did fall...!"
So, accuse pilots of a hard landing, ask yourself "did the masks fall...?"
That is your first clue. I remember a landing in a 707. Almost all fell down.
Our engineer inspected the plane. No damage. Quite a job to stow all masks.
xxx
So, if and when you come to Pprune saying hard landing...
How about the masks in the cabin...? Did they fall...? Some...? All of them...?
If none did fall, it was a firm landing, YES. Not a hard landing.
Did I make my point...?
xxx
Thank you.
Happy contrails
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I've seen the rubber jungle (or rather 3/4 sets near me) after what I perceived as a normal touchdown (between the wing and the front of a 763) and I've felt quite a 'bang' without one, causing my head to hit the bulkhead behind the seat (last row in a 764.)
One's location in the cabin makes a difference to the perception of a landing.
To some of the professionals posting here, you really need to calm down a bit.
It's quite normal in many walks of life for lay people to irritate the
out of professionals.
My job involves quite a lot of public speaking and I get feedback from the audience most times - if I got as excited as some of you guys, I'd have died from stress years ago.
1 - they don't understand the job and make incorrect deductions as a result
2 - they ultimately provide the money that pays the professionals
3 - they don't understand why something smooth may be bad or something raggedy may be good, as they lack the situational judgment and contextual knowledge that professionals posses
In my line of work, we call our customers 'clients;' Managing clients involves a lot of smiling and suppression of irritation
But god bless them, they paid for my property, my car, my kids education etc...
One's location in the cabin makes a difference to the perception of a landing.
To some of the professionals posting here, you really need to calm down a bit.
It's quite normal in many walks of life for lay people to irritate the
out of professionals.My job involves quite a lot of public speaking and I get feedback from the audience most times - if I got as excited as some of you guys, I'd have died from stress years ago.
1 - they don't understand the job and make incorrect deductions as a result
2 - they ultimately provide the money that pays the professionals
3 - they don't understand why something smooth may be bad or something raggedy may be good, as they lack the situational judgment and contextual knowledge that professionals posses
In my line of work, we call our customers 'clients;' Managing clients involves a lot of smiling and suppression of irritation
But god bless them, they paid for my property, my car, my kids education etc...
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Thank you - I think you have hit it.
There were no oxygen masks falling or anything falling for that matter. All that was there was loud noise, lockers rattling, and screams.
Interesting that even that landing is still well okay for the landing gear. Boeing must really test the gear!
I guess some are bad and some are good. Like how I park the car! Although landing is more difficult than parking a car.
Thank you.
Nikolai
There were no oxygen masks falling or anything falling for that matter. All that was there was loud noise, lockers rattling, and screams.
Interesting that even that landing is still well okay for the landing gear. Boeing must really test the gear!
I guess some are bad and some are good. Like how I park the car! Although landing is more difficult than parking a car.
Thank you.
Nikolai
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Smooth landing techniques
Do you know that is really exists...?
But some techniques are not exactly known as "flying by the book".
I learned them from old "geezers" (I am one now) 35-40 years ago.
And this with a very respective airline of the "first world".
xxx
And if you research my posts, I often have arguments with qualified pilots.
Pilots of even "more respected airlines" of a more superior first world nation.
I immediately get accused of deviating from standard operating practices.
Well, you see, near 50% of my flying is, I should say was as instructor.
And as training manager in my latest airline, nobody would dare criticize.
Only under Pprune anonimity, do some claim their superior airmanship.
xxx
Quite a few pilots are ex-military. Air Force or Navy...
The two land with completely different techniques and braking concepts.
When finally in the real world, these pilots take time to change habits.
xxx
An airplane quasi impossible to land smoothly, was the good old DC-8.
Touch down was almost always a crash. Ask United and Delta old timers.
So, one day, an experienced DC8 pilot told me to use "their" technique.
Was "not to arm" the "speed brakes". Not what "the book" recommends.
But United and Delta did this to get applauded by unsuspecting passengers.
To passengers, a gentle and smooth touchdown is a "great captain".
Unknown to you, he might be the worst moron of all pilots.
xxx
With "speed brakes armed", the spoilers over the wing deploy suddenly.
Actually makes the wing stall a fraction of second before landing. BANG !!!
No speed brakes armed, they will not deploy. Pilot can glide smoothly down.
Of course, you wasted 2000+ feet of runway doing so.
Especially with wet and slippery runways.
You will applaud the "kiss landing" until you end in the mud beyond the end.
Your shoes will be dirty after you exit down the emergency slides.
xxx
I demonstrate that technique, on very long dry runways. Even in the 747.
Nose up, aerodynamic braking Air Force style. Not even touching brakes.
Need to tell the passengers to get up, they would not know we landed.
On short wet runways, be aware I am a frustrated Navy FA-18 jockey.
My "hook catches the first wire" and your nose is in the back of seat in front.
Navy calls that an "arrival"... (and Marines, I did not know they can fly)...
xxx
To pilots of the "world's favourite airline" style, my answer is this -
My former airline has not had an accident nor casualty since... 1971.
How about that for a third world airline, with a fleet of some 40 planes...?
Some of their procedures are the ones I recommended.
I know they miss me there in the training. Especially my classroom jokes.
xxx
Happy contrails
But some techniques are not exactly known as "flying by the book".
I learned them from old "geezers" (I am one now) 35-40 years ago.
And this with a very respective airline of the "first world".
xxx
And if you research my posts, I often have arguments with qualified pilots.
Pilots of even "more respected airlines" of a more superior first world nation.
I immediately get accused of deviating from standard operating practices.
Well, you see, near 50% of my flying is, I should say was as instructor.
And as training manager in my latest airline, nobody would dare criticize.
Only under Pprune anonimity, do some claim their superior airmanship.
xxx
Quite a few pilots are ex-military. Air Force or Navy...
The two land with completely different techniques and braking concepts.
When finally in the real world, these pilots take time to change habits.
xxx
An airplane quasi impossible to land smoothly, was the good old DC-8.
Touch down was almost always a crash. Ask United and Delta old timers.
So, one day, an experienced DC8 pilot told me to use "their" technique.
Was "not to arm" the "speed brakes". Not what "the book" recommends.
But United and Delta did this to get applauded by unsuspecting passengers.
To passengers, a gentle and smooth touchdown is a "great captain".
Unknown to you, he might be the worst moron of all pilots.
xxx
With "speed brakes armed", the spoilers over the wing deploy suddenly.
Actually makes the wing stall a fraction of second before landing. BANG !!!
No speed brakes armed, they will not deploy. Pilot can glide smoothly down.
Of course, you wasted 2000+ feet of runway doing so.
Especially with wet and slippery runways.
You will applaud the "kiss landing" until you end in the mud beyond the end.
Your shoes will be dirty after you exit down the emergency slides.
xxx
I demonstrate that technique, on very long dry runways. Even in the 747.
Nose up, aerodynamic braking Air Force style. Not even touching brakes.
Need to tell the passengers to get up, they would not know we landed.
On short wet runways, be aware I am a frustrated Navy FA-18 jockey.
My "hook catches the first wire" and your nose is in the back of seat in front.
Navy calls that an "arrival"... (and Marines, I did not know they can fly)...
xxx
To pilots of the "world's favourite airline" style, my answer is this -
My former airline has not had an accident nor casualty since... 1971.
How about that for a third world airline, with a fleet of some 40 planes...?
Some of their procedures are the ones I recommended.
I know they miss me there in the training. Especially my classroom jokes.
xxx
Happy contrails
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Just a curiosity question here but i remember hearing that some airline SOP's state the aircraft must be touched down by the 1500" markers or a go around is required? and is this is the case then the pilot increasing the sink rate to achieve this?
i have had a couple of pearler landings in the B738 with the rubber jungle dropdown, window shades coming down at a great rate of speed but i do have a understanding of vref+ speeds and understand that a great deal of the time its not the pilots fault but after getting off the plane and looking at the threshold seeing hot raods, hills, stuff that can cause mechanical turbulence and then think that yeah they did do a good job as i know and im sure that everyone else does, NO ppilot wants to do a hard landing cause it really does create to much paper work!!
just my thoughts...
i have had a couple of pearler landings in the B738 with the rubber jungle dropdown, window shades coming down at a great rate of speed but i do have a understanding of vref+ speeds and understand that a great deal of the time its not the pilots fault but after getting off the plane and looking at the threshold seeing hot raods, hills, stuff that can cause mechanical turbulence and then think that yeah they did do a good job as i know and im sure that everyone else does, NO ppilot wants to do a hard landing cause it really does create to much paper work!!
just my thoughts...
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You should never judge a landing by screams from the pax either.
I would guess 20-25 percent of my landings (as pax) at Kai Tak were accompanied by yells from Kai Tak first timers who thought they about to appear in someones living room!
I would guess 20-25 percent of my landings (as pax) at Kai Tak were accompanied by yells from Kai Tak first timers who thought they about to appear in someones living room!
Warning Toxic!
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Quite simply, every pilot every so often does a hard landing, a real thumper he will feel upset about. It happens to the best of us. I happen to go through periods of not being able to land really smooth and soft. For a few weeks, every landing is firm or scruffy and (to me) unsatisfactory, then suddenly it passes, and I go through a long period where it comes smooth and natural. I don't know why, but it doesn't do any harm, and that is how everybody occasionally (or frequently) lands. It does no harm to the aeroplane. A really hard landing will drop the oxygen masks. A too-hard landing will ground the aeroplane until inspectins have taken place. I would say nikolai's landing was hard, but surprisingly to him, probably well within the design parameters of the 737. I doubt the aeroplane was grounded!
Get it clear everybody, you CANNOT judge speed or rate of descent from the cabin. In a lifetime of flying, I can't- neither can you. If you have a beef about a landing, complain if you like. But it is a waste of time. If it's REALLY too bad, you will be standing outside looking at bent and broken metal!
Get it clear everybody, you CANNOT judge speed or rate of descent from the cabin. In a lifetime of flying, I can't- neither can you. If you have a beef about a landing, complain if you like. But it is a waste of time. If it's REALLY too bad, you will be standing outside looking at bent and broken metal!
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Of course, you wasted 2000+ feet of runway doing so.
One of the few times I have been frightened on a commercial flight was when the F100 floooooooooated for what seemed like an eternity, before touching down with barely a chirp.
Fortunately, the runway was 10,000 feet long, we made the last exit - I could see as we vacated.
It may all have been planned, but it scared me.
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To the small minority who like to argue the toss . . .
I'll choose my words carefully.
Like many of my colleagues, I am happy to have visitors to the flightdeck and welcome questions or constructive suggestions from passengers. Without them I wouldn't have a job for very long. Likewise, I'm happy to spend time on this forum enlightening pax and enthusiasts about what goes on behind the flightdeck door.
What irritates me, however, is when a passenger or enthusiast (or a PPL who should know better) presumes to know more than I do, and persists in arguing a point when they clearly do not have the knowledge or experience to back-up their assertions. And it really winds me up when a layman implies or alleges that a professional flightcrew performed poorly, without any facts to back up their opinions. Why some people do this, I do not know. Maybe they're trolling, maybe they just like to argue; frankly I don't really care. Regardless, when someone comes out with a line like:
or
then my patience wears thin pretty quickly.
For those who haven't got it yet, landing a large commercial aircraft can be more of a black art than an exact science. There are many, many variables involved, most of which the passengers will be completely unaware of. Some types are very forgiving, e.g. the 747 or BAe146 series, others, such as the 737NG or my own type (Q400) are difficult to land consistently smoothly. I have done landings where the wheels kissed the tarmac, I have done one or two where I seriously wondered if I'd bent something (I hadn't). None of them were unsafe.
The aim of the exercise is not to achieve an ego-satisfying, crowd-pleasing greaser. It is to achieve a stable approach, followed by a touchdown on the runway centreline, in the touchdown zone, at the correct speed and rate of descent. This may result in a smooth touchdown, it may not. On my type you might as well roll a dice.
As passenger or observer, there are simply so many factors involved of which you have no knowledge or experience that passing comment on the landing is pretty-much guaranteed to wind-up professional pilots. I invite anyone to look at the view on final to runway 27 at Jersey (which is short and ends with a cliff) and encourage me to aim for a greaser . . .
Like many of my colleagues, I am happy to have visitors to the flightdeck and welcome questions or constructive suggestions from passengers. Without them I wouldn't have a job for very long. Likewise, I'm happy to spend time on this forum enlightening pax and enthusiasts about what goes on behind the flightdeck door.
What irritates me, however, is when a passenger or enthusiast (or a PPL who should know better) presumes to know more than I do, and persists in arguing a point when they clearly do not have the knowledge or experience to back-up their assertions. And it really winds me up when a layman implies or alleges that a professional flightcrew performed poorly, without any facts to back up their opinions. Why some people do this, I do not know. Maybe they're trolling, maybe they just like to argue; frankly I don't really care. Regardless, when someone comes out with a line like:
if you really are, and I mean IF a good pilot (you seem like the worst) then you might actually TRY and get the plane down softly.
If you did a rubbish landing, I would not be the only one who would say you're a bad pilot.
For those who haven't got it yet, landing a large commercial aircraft can be more of a black art than an exact science. There are many, many variables involved, most of which the passengers will be completely unaware of. Some types are very forgiving, e.g. the 747 or BAe146 series, others, such as the 737NG or my own type (Q400) are difficult to land consistently smoothly. I have done landings where the wheels kissed the tarmac, I have done one or two where I seriously wondered if I'd bent something (I hadn't). None of them were unsafe.
The aim of the exercise is not to achieve an ego-satisfying, crowd-pleasing greaser. It is to achieve a stable approach, followed by a touchdown on the runway centreline, in the touchdown zone, at the correct speed and rate of descent. This may result in a smooth touchdown, it may not. On my type you might as well roll a dice.
As passenger or observer, there are simply so many factors involved of which you have no knowledge or experience that passing comment on the landing is pretty-much guaranteed to wind-up professional pilots. I invite anyone to look at the view on final to runway 27 at Jersey (which is short and ends with a cliff) and encourage me to aim for a greaser . . .