BA Service
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BA Service
Turned up at T5 for BA720 to Zurich.
Flight ETD 1900, arrived at 1500 due to meeting ending early, already checked in online, on a C class ticket.
Flight promulgated as cancelled.
BA tried re-routing through LH, who wouldn't check me in and sent me back to BA.
Bottom line, am now on a flight tomorrow morning.
What really surprised me is that BA would not assist with hotac etc.
The consequences of this are that a Swiss client is realy not too pleased with me, as I was due to facilitate a workshop tomorrow and Friday - I wouldn't be surprised if they decline to pay me a full (or any) fee for tomorrow, as I'll arrive about 3 hours after they start.
So that's £363 for a hotel room (yes, you did read that correctly, but one has to take what's available), £36 for dinner and up to a four figure sum for lost fees.
I did ask for and receive this letter from BA as it crossed my mind that I might need a 'force majeure' defence against being sued for breach of contract by my client.
"Dear Mr F3G
I contacted our operations department this afternoon to establish the exact reason that your flight, BA720 to Zurich, was cancelled earlier today.
I was told for 'rotational reasons', due to the adverse weather conditions it was decided to cancel some of our flights, BA720 being one of these flights.
I am sorry that you were inconvenienced, and hope that this explanation is sufficient for you."
I understand that flights are affected by bad wx, but come on, if they canx at -4 hours and make no attempt to operate or provide hotac on a business class fare, is that really acceptable?
In recent years, I have avoided BA because of their industrial relations issues and poorer service levels.
The only reason I will fly with the company in the future is if no alternative is available - easyJet would have been a better choice today due to their wx policy and a damned sight less expensive than BA club.
I felt very sorry for the duty manager, who was clearly very uncomfortable about having to take the company line and behaved like a gentleman.
Flight ETD 1900, arrived at 1500 due to meeting ending early, already checked in online, on a C class ticket.
Flight promulgated as cancelled.
BA tried re-routing through LH, who wouldn't check me in and sent me back to BA.
Bottom line, am now on a flight tomorrow morning.
What really surprised me is that BA would not assist with hotac etc.
The consequences of this are that a Swiss client is realy not too pleased with me, as I was due to facilitate a workshop tomorrow and Friday - I wouldn't be surprised if they decline to pay me a full (or any) fee for tomorrow, as I'll arrive about 3 hours after they start.
So that's £363 for a hotel room (yes, you did read that correctly, but one has to take what's available), £36 for dinner and up to a four figure sum for lost fees.
I did ask for and receive this letter from BA as it crossed my mind that I might need a 'force majeure' defence against being sued for breach of contract by my client.
"Dear Mr F3G
I contacted our operations department this afternoon to establish the exact reason that your flight, BA720 to Zurich, was cancelled earlier today.
I was told for 'rotational reasons', due to the adverse weather conditions it was decided to cancel some of our flights, BA720 being one of these flights.
I am sorry that you were inconvenienced, and hope that this explanation is sufficient for you."
I understand that flights are affected by bad wx, but come on, if they canx at -4 hours and make no attempt to operate or provide hotac on a business class fare, is that really acceptable?
In recent years, I have avoided BA because of their industrial relations issues and poorer service levels.
The only reason I will fly with the company in the future is if no alternative is available - easyJet would have been a better choice today due to their wx policy and a damned sight less expensive than BA club.
I felt very sorry for the duty manager, who was clearly very uncomfortable about having to take the company line and behaved like a gentleman.
You were there at 15.00.BA surely had plenty of time to reroute you via PAR/BRU/FRA or wherever.
If not you were surely entitled to a hotel.
A few years ago this would all have been done without question.I know times are hard for the airlines and they hate transferring passengers to competitors but this sort of service is ridiculous.
I hope you will complain bitterly and demand compensation.
If not you were surely entitled to a hotel.
A few years ago this would all have been done without question.I know times are hard for the airlines and they hate transferring passengers to competitors but this sort of service is ridiculous.
I hope you will complain bitterly and demand compensation.
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What's their excuse for no HOTAC - even on the times when they've canx me due to weather or operational issues that's been the bare minimum - the only argument I've had is about compensation which they generally wriggle out of.
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LH said that check in for the flights was closed, although I arrived at STD -90.
I guess (they didn't tell me) that the first flight LHR-DUS was going to be so late that the connection DUS-ZRH was impossible.
The BA agent who gave me the invol rerouting did say that LH might not accept me, but it was all he could offer, so perhaps he knew something.
I guess (they didn't tell me) that the first flight LHR-DUS was going to be so late that the connection DUS-ZRH was impossible.
The BA agent who gave me the invol rerouting did say that LH might not accept me, but it was all he could offer, so perhaps he knew something.
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Get back to St Pancras, take the Eurostar to Paris, fly via CDG to ZRH - Might be a little more than 363 quid, but you certainly wouldn't lose your 4 figure consultancy fee?
Then bill BA for the costs of making your own connection. :-)
S.
Then bill BA for the costs of making your own connection. :-)
S.
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VAFFPax
I could have got to Paris faster by plane, but there was no onward connection available.
I'll be sending the BA company secretary a letter today seeking to recover my expenses and consequential losses.
Should the company decide to refuse this, it will go the county court after 21 days.
Old Tora
Thank you for taking the time to write your kind advice.
Unfortunately, much of this is not feasible for me, but I do appreciate you sharing your thoughts.
I could have got to Paris faster by plane, but there was no onward connection available.
I'll be sending the BA company secretary a letter today seeking to recover my expenses and consequential losses.
Should the company decide to refuse this, it will go the county court after 21 days.
Old Tora
Thank you for taking the time to write your kind advice.
Unfortunately, much of this is not feasible for me, but I do appreciate you sharing your thoughts.
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F3G
The processes that govern whether compensation is due are determined by international agreements.
The internal BA systems show that for yesterday all cancellations were deemed to be due to the weather and that no compensation was due.
If you like, in circumstances like those that prevailed, it was an 'act of god' ie beyond the airlines' control, hence no compensation due by right.
Move that weather to somewhere like AMS or CDG, which operate at about 70% runway capacity and there is the ability to shift more of the schedule still, but at LHR running at 98% runway capacity, then there is no option but to cancel services.
Back to the 3rd runway debate.
The processes that govern whether compensation is due are determined by international agreements.
The internal BA systems show that for yesterday all cancellations were deemed to be due to the weather and that no compensation was due.
If you like, in circumstances like those that prevailed, it was an 'act of god' ie beyond the airlines' control, hence no compensation due by right.
Move that weather to somewhere like AMS or CDG, which operate at about 70% runway capacity and there is the ability to shift more of the schedule still, but at LHR running at 98% runway capacity, then there is no option but to cancel services.
Back to the 3rd runway debate.
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The internal BA systems show that for yesterday all cancellations were deemed to be due to the weather and that no compensation was due.
Go for them in the Small Claims Court to recover all your money and get any additional payments you are due, including your time and costs in making the claim. Assemble your case, under UK and EU law, quote the relevant regulations, and file it. It just needs to be clear, NOT a "lawyer's submission". Attend the hearing, say your piece if asked, and you will be treated fairly under the law, not BA's idea of what they must do.
At no time go near a lawyer.
A judge will give short shrift to nonsense about weather and so forth, when the truth is plain.
It's inexpensive and works. If BA offers to settle beforehand accept only what you have asked for, and if they are not very, very polite indeed, as in "Please accept a voucher for a free Business Class trip for your and your partner as well as this cheque" add 20%.
Good Luck!
PS I know that the term "Small Claims Court" is not accurate, but everyone knows what is meant by it. Google for the details of what to do.
At no time go near a lawyer.
A judge will give short shrift to nonsense about weather and so forth, when the truth is plain.
It's inexpensive and works. If BA offers to settle beforehand accept only what you have asked for, and if they are not very, very polite indeed, as in "Please accept a voucher for a free Business Class trip for your and your partner as well as this cheque" add 20%.
Good Luck!
PS I know that the term "Small Claims Court" is not accurate, but everyone knows what is meant by it. Google for the details of what to do.
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Old, not bold
Thanks for your support.
If BA stick to their guns, I will go to the small claims division and have no fear over the process, which evens the odds up in a David and Goliath encounter.
Top Bunk
Although you asked the question of another poster, let me answer you.
Despite the god like arrogance of some BA managers I have met, I do not yet believe that they can control the weather.
However, sudden fog did not descend on LHR yesterday evening (that I would accept as being a reasonable excuse) and the 1540 flight to Zurich did operate.
What BA did was to take a decision to cancel the 1900 Zurich flight to operate other flights, fair enough you may argue.
However, to cancel a flight several hours in advance and not to inform the (checked in) passenger whilst he may be able to make alternative arrangements, despite having their email and mobile telephone contact details on file is completely unacceptable - do you understand the concept of mitigating losses?
Had I hired an executive jet to take me to Zurich last night, then I would be thrown out of court for failing to mitigate the cost to BA, but I didn't and I will nail the company if they do not accept the financial impact that they caused. BTW, my track record is played 3, won 3. I don't like investing my time in court action, but in this instance the numbers mandate it.
Thanks for your support.
If BA stick to their guns, I will go to the small claims division and have no fear over the process, which evens the odds up in a David and Goliath encounter.
Top Bunk
Although you asked the question of another poster, let me answer you.
Despite the god like arrogance of some BA managers I have met, I do not yet believe that they can control the weather.
However, sudden fog did not descend on LHR yesterday evening (that I would accept as being a reasonable excuse) and the 1540 flight to Zurich did operate.
What BA did was to take a decision to cancel the 1900 Zurich flight to operate other flights, fair enough you may argue.
However, to cancel a flight several hours in advance and not to inform the (checked in) passenger whilst he may be able to make alternative arrangements, despite having their email and mobile telephone contact details on file is completely unacceptable - do you understand the concept of mitigating losses?
Had I hired an executive jet to take me to Zurich last night, then I would be thrown out of court for failing to mitigate the cost to BA, but I didn't and I will nail the company if they do not accept the financial impact that they caused. BTW, my track record is played 3, won 3. I don't like investing my time in court action, but in this instance the numbers mandate it.
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Surprised at BA's reluctance to assist with HOTAC, but not sure of all the facts.
However to expect BA to call every passenger throughout the day when thousands would have been affected is just plain daft! You were however informed by whatever means about 4hrs before. For extended periods of time yesterday flowrates into LHR were 26 aircraft per hour - BA has no say in the matter. The fog had been forecast the previous evening, did you make any attempt to contact the company to see if operations were running normally to 'mitigate your losses' during the day?
As Topbunk says, legally it is defined as 'an act of god' and this was accepted when you purchased your ticket, in the small print.
The quote in your original post says the flight was cancelled 'for rotational reasons' this is different to your claim that it was cancelled to operate other flights. The rotational reason covers many things, one of which may be crew hours or aerodrome operating times either at zrh or somewhere else on that aircrafts/schedules rotation. Thus mitigating BA's losses due to the 'act of god'. And without knowing when the decision was made it is unfair to criticise BA as you were made aware 4 hrs before your flight left.
As you say sudden fog did not descend on LHR last night but was severly affecting all operators out of LHR.
You may well have a case with being refused hotac, but am unsure as to whether you reside close enough to LHR to not make that necessary. Especially as you were told at 1500 and the flight the company rebooked you on was the following day. Which brings us to the point BA fulfilled their part of the deal and got you to Zrh at the earliest opportunity.
However to expect BA to call every passenger throughout the day when thousands would have been affected is just plain daft! You were however informed by whatever means about 4hrs before. For extended periods of time yesterday flowrates into LHR were 26 aircraft per hour - BA has no say in the matter. The fog had been forecast the previous evening, did you make any attempt to contact the company to see if operations were running normally to 'mitigate your losses' during the day?
As Topbunk says, legally it is defined as 'an act of god' and this was accepted when you purchased your ticket, in the small print.
The quote in your original post says the flight was cancelled 'for rotational reasons' this is different to your claim that it was cancelled to operate other flights. The rotational reason covers many things, one of which may be crew hours or aerodrome operating times either at zrh or somewhere else on that aircrafts/schedules rotation. Thus mitigating BA's losses due to the 'act of god'. And without knowing when the decision was made it is unfair to criticise BA as you were made aware 4 hrs before your flight left.
As you say sudden fog did not descend on LHR last night but was severly affecting all operators out of LHR.
You may well have a case with being refused hotac, but am unsure as to whether you reside close enough to LHR to not make that necessary. Especially as you were told at 1500 and the flight the company rebooked you on was the following day. Which brings us to the point BA fulfilled their part of the deal and got you to Zrh at the earliest opportunity.
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F3G
The following may help:
I understand that the internal BA coding reflects the above EU Regulation.
The following may help:
New EU Legislation (EC Regulation 261/2004) was introduced on 17 February 2005 with regard to compensation for cancelled flights. All claims should initially be made online through ba.com/euclaims, where passengers must enter the following information:
passenger names as printed on the ticket
flight number
scheduled departure date
booking reference
One person can submit a claim for up to six people, but they must have the same surname and be booked on the
same PNR, or separate claims must be submitted.
passenger names as printed on the ticket
flight number
scheduled departure date
booking reference
One person can submit a claim for up to six people, but they must have the same surname and be booked on the
same PNR, or separate claims must be submitted.
Tablelover
Just for the record, of course no-one expects that an airline, even BA would ring every passenger.
But they have mobile numbers and email addresses, there's such a thing as a text message and, if they haven't done so already a competent 12-year-old could set up a system for BA whereby an announcement of a problem with a particular flight can be sent by text to all passengers for that flight whose PNR's include a mobile number, as well as an email ditto for those with mobile email such as Blackberry. Time needed to execute this; 2-5 minutes.
Given the availability of this technology, if BA haven't used it they can only expect to be blamed and sued. I have no sympathy.
But I wonder if in fact the system is in place, and BA staff just can't be bothered to use it? Why does that sound more likely?
Anyone know which it is? Can't be bothered to set up a notification system, or can't be bothered to use it?
Just for the record, of course no-one expects that an airline, even BA would ring every passenger.
But they have mobile numbers and email addresses, there's such a thing as a text message and, if they haven't done so already a competent 12-year-old could set up a system for BA whereby an announcement of a problem with a particular flight can be sent by text to all passengers for that flight whose PNR's include a mobile number, as well as an email ditto for those with mobile email such as Blackberry. Time needed to execute this; 2-5 minutes.
Given the availability of this technology, if BA haven't used it they can only expect to be blamed and sued. I have no sympathy.
But I wonder if in fact the system is in place, and BA staff just can't be bothered to use it? Why does that sound more likely?
Anyone know which it is? Can't be bothered to set up a notification system, or can't be bothered to use it?