What IS the accepted security 'pat down' search pattern?
Bex
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What IS the accepted security 'pat down' search pattern?
A serious request ladies and gentleman, although I'm sure many of you will see the humour in the following!
On Monday, I flew from ABZ to AMS. Going through security to get the interconnecting flight, I set off the alarm. Took of my boots, my jewellery but still set it off. I assumed it was the underwire in my bra, a common 'beeper' for most women. I was asked if I minded being searched, of course I said not at all. The female officer then started the usual pattern of checking down my arms, the two sides of her hands under my arms, under my boobs, down the centre of my chest between my boobs, but then she ALSO put both hands full on my boobs and squeezed them. Then carried on down my front, sides etc. But when she came to do the behind section she again clearly grabbed my bottom with both hands and gave that a squeeze.
I was sent on my way and it was only abou 10 mins later (it was a very early morning!) and after I'd thought about it, that I realised I'd never ever been checked like that before, and if I were of a different mind set, then I could have been left feeling very uncomfortable!
SO I ask the question of those in the know, what IS the correct and accepted search pattern and does it include copping a feel of people?
On Monday, I flew from ABZ to AMS. Going through security to get the interconnecting flight, I set off the alarm. Took of my boots, my jewellery but still set it off. I assumed it was the underwire in my bra, a common 'beeper' for most women. I was asked if I minded being searched, of course I said not at all. The female officer then started the usual pattern of checking down my arms, the two sides of her hands under my arms, under my boobs, down the centre of my chest between my boobs, but then she ALSO put both hands full on my boobs and squeezed them. Then carried on down my front, sides etc. But when she came to do the behind section she again clearly grabbed my bottom with both hands and gave that a squeeze.
I was sent on my way and it was only abou 10 mins later (it was a very early morning!) and after I'd thought about it, that I realised I'd never ever been checked like that before, and if I were of a different mind set, then I could have been left feeling very uncomfortable!
SO I ask the question of those in the know, what IS the correct and accepted search pattern and does it include copping a feel of people?
No idea to be honest, but where doI apply?
Getting paid to fondle boobies, blimey !!
On the flip side I was going through security in BHX just a couple of weeks ago....set the beep off....now I am not sure if Mr Security man seemed to think I had b0llocks made out of metal or something but he searched more than comfortably close to the old Tally-Whacker.
I think I actually went on tip toes at one point..kind of a silent "WOAHHHH steady there fella"
Getting paid to fondle boobies, blimey !!
On the flip side I was going through security in BHX just a couple of weeks ago....set the beep off....now I am not sure if Mr Security man seemed to think I had b0llocks made out of metal or something but he searched more than comfortably close to the old Tally-Whacker.
I think I actually went on tip toes at one point..kind of a silent "WOAHHHH steady there fella"
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That was groping there FWOF. I get beeped most everyday at work and have only had a pat down like that once, which was reported. Seems the employee in question made a habit of it.
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Normally, you only get to watch the "pat down" if you are behind a "pattee". However, last week when flying from T5, I was able to wander over to the rather big windows in the BA lounge, with a nice cafe latte, and look down on the security entrance and watch the incoming traffic.
There was a male and female "patter" and, I have to say, I was most impressed with the uniformed young girl. She stood straight, no talking (unlike the bored, yawning, male) watched carefully and when the arch beeped, she courteously but firmly moved the "pattee" to one side where she spoke briefly and then started the procedeure. I watched two or three subjects and she followed the same method which, I noticed, included hands through the cleavage, the inner leg and a great deal of attention to every part of the body. Whilst it seemed intrusive, it was carried out quickly and efficiently. At the end, she put her hand on the elbow of the subject spoke some words and pointed to the end of the x-ray machine. All subjects smiled at her and I realised I was watching someone who was very good at her job.
However, to answer your question, whilst it was obviously very personal, I don't recall seeing any undue groping...
There was a male and female "patter" and, I have to say, I was most impressed with the uniformed young girl. She stood straight, no talking (unlike the bored, yawning, male) watched carefully and when the arch beeped, she courteously but firmly moved the "pattee" to one side where she spoke briefly and then started the procedeure. I watched two or three subjects and she followed the same method which, I noticed, included hands through the cleavage, the inner leg and a great deal of attention to every part of the body. Whilst it seemed intrusive, it was carried out quickly and efficiently. At the end, she put her hand on the elbow of the subject spoke some words and pointed to the end of the x-ray machine. All subjects smiled at her and I realised I was watching someone who was very good at her job.
However, to answer your question, whilst it was obviously very personal, I don't recall seeing any undue groping...
I had a similar experience at Stansted a couple of years ago. The security person (male, as I am) started taking inside leg measurements despite me passing the X-ray machine with no squawks. I saw a similar complaint on Pprune a little later about the same airport and quite possibly the same person, going by his description (non indigenous). In another environment, he would have become punched.
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There was an older gentleman at Prestwick last year who enjoyed sliding his fingers inside my waist band and checked for weapons. Clearly he enjoyed finding the one at the front. I have worn loose boxers since. I couldn't quite believe it.
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Hi, FWIW it's been over two years since I last let a civilian put their hands on me or my stuff. If myself or my bag needs to be searched, I get the police to come and do it, since none else has legal authority to do so.
It works and only takes five minutes extra. You also suddenly get treated with proper respect, funnily enough. Give it a try next time.
It works and only takes five minutes extra. You also suddenly get treated with proper respect, funnily enough. Give it a try next time.
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Who has the authority, is a relative thing.
I'm a crewmember, but under certain circumstances we are also charged with wanding and patting down a passenger or jumpseater. In a former life in law enforcement, and also in charter, the same thing was required.
Ordinarily, we request a female to pat down a female. I'm not, so it's not ordinarily something I do now.
One cannot avoid areas of the body simply because they may be sensitive, but one must also be sensitive to avoid embarassment or the appearance of something other than a professional search. If you think about it, leaving the breasts or genital area as untouchable would make them certain carriage points for contraband or weapons. In areas where one is subject to search, then the whole body is subject to search. Generally provision must be made for privacy if required, and one who refuses to submit to a patdown may be subject to other methods of search (such as disrobing or revealing undergarments, etc). Under some circumstances, when one has elected to enter security, simply turning and leaving while refusing a search isn't possible...there's such a thing as not simply being able to turn around and walk out.
I've noted a certain amount of indignation among some posters here to this concept. Some feel that they should be free to do as they please where ever they please; this is not the case in a secure area. One may not have the option to simply turn around while in transit through security and leave. One may be able to appreciate that someone attempting to smuggle an item through security, who gets cold feet or becomes afraid of discovery, should not, and cannot, be allowed to simply turn and walk away.
If you feel that the search of your property or person are not in order, you should ask that the process stop, a supervisor be called, and the matter addressed. If you encounter a situation in which you think you have been improperly touched or asked to do something improper, then it's in everybody's attention to request a supervisor and get the matter handled. You should be offered the chance to be searched in private or in the presence of a witness, and in the case of a search of a sensitive area, you should be given an explaination of what is to be done before it is done.
In the event that we are to perform a female search and the female consents (frequently we don't have a female to perform it for us), then sensitive areas are discussed before touching, and we use the back of our hands. No grabbing.
I'm a crewmember, but under certain circumstances we are also charged with wanding and patting down a passenger or jumpseater. In a former life in law enforcement, and also in charter, the same thing was required.
Ordinarily, we request a female to pat down a female. I'm not, so it's not ordinarily something I do now.
One cannot avoid areas of the body simply because they may be sensitive, but one must also be sensitive to avoid embarassment or the appearance of something other than a professional search. If you think about it, leaving the breasts or genital area as untouchable would make them certain carriage points for contraband or weapons. In areas where one is subject to search, then the whole body is subject to search. Generally provision must be made for privacy if required, and one who refuses to submit to a patdown may be subject to other methods of search (such as disrobing or revealing undergarments, etc). Under some circumstances, when one has elected to enter security, simply turning and leaving while refusing a search isn't possible...there's such a thing as not simply being able to turn around and walk out.
I've noted a certain amount of indignation among some posters here to this concept. Some feel that they should be free to do as they please where ever they please; this is not the case in a secure area. One may not have the option to simply turn around while in transit through security and leave. One may be able to appreciate that someone attempting to smuggle an item through security, who gets cold feet or becomes afraid of discovery, should not, and cannot, be allowed to simply turn and walk away.
If you feel that the search of your property or person are not in order, you should ask that the process stop, a supervisor be called, and the matter addressed. If you encounter a situation in which you think you have been improperly touched or asked to do something improper, then it's in everybody's attention to request a supervisor and get the matter handled. You should be offered the chance to be searched in private or in the presence of a witness, and in the case of a search of a sensitive area, you should be given an explaination of what is to be done before it is done.
In the event that we are to perform a female search and the female consents (frequently we don't have a female to perform it for us), then sensitive areas are discussed before touching, and we use the back of our hands. No grabbing.
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does it include copping a feel of people?
This should all be done discreetly, quickly and above all with a bit of dignity. It is not a pleasant experience hand searching pax and is equally uncomfortable for the searcher aswell as the passenger especially when it comes to peoples bits. I was never instructed to squeeze anyones bum !
Bex
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Thanks for the responses, and it was, as I had thought, not right.
I've never had a problem being patted down before and have never been made to feel uncomfortable, and neither have I had my boobs and bum squeezed before. I've had the ladies feel all around my bra and use the hand wand on me. I've even been taken to a private room (at ABZ) and to the curtained area at AMS and had to remove my top.
I don't see the problem in being patted down at all, and I can well imagine it can be an unpleasant job for the searcher also, especially in the height of summer. However, I do feel that there must be a very small minority if searchers who clearly get their jollies by pushing the boundaries slightly, thinking no-one will notice.
I'm a great believer that people will get away with what they are allowed to get away with. Until they are told not to.
I've never had a problem being patted down before and have never been made to feel uncomfortable, and neither have I had my boobs and bum squeezed before. I've had the ladies feel all around my bra and use the hand wand on me. I've even been taken to a private room (at ABZ) and to the curtained area at AMS and had to remove my top.
I don't see the problem in being patted down at all, and I can well imagine it can be an unpleasant job for the searcher also, especially in the height of summer. However, I do feel that there must be a very small minority if searchers who clearly get their jollies by pushing the boundaries slightly, thinking no-one will notice.
I'm a great believer that people will get away with what they are allowed to get away with. Until they are told not to.
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LH2-security staff DO have a legal right to search you and your belongings. Do you really think they are stopping everyone at the airport illegally? Come on, get a grip. I do agree there can sometimes be rude members of security staff (at EMA we have a couple of real bad eggs but thankfully these are the minority-as will be the case anywhere) but making a big hoohar about who has a legal responsibility? Don't talk pants
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This is a difficult area. As a man working at Heathrow, I have been almost "groped" on a few occasions - on one occasion, I did complain to the supervisor.
However, I have seen internal memos from the Department for Transport following their inspections where they accuse the Security Staff of not being thorough enough with the body searches and being too gentle!
"In particular, the boobs and buttocks and genital area have proved popular places for the concealment of prohibited articles and you must be certain that these areas have been checked. If the alarm on the security arch is activated, you must establish beyond any doubt the reason."
.....So, on the one hand, the Security Officers are being told to be firm - on the other, we feel our dignity is being violated. Lose - Lose situation I would say!
Mind you, if you do feel the search is too intrusive to the point of "interference", you are welcome to bring the matter to the attention of the Security Team Leader.
However, I have seen internal memos from the Department for Transport following their inspections where they accuse the Security Staff of not being thorough enough with the body searches and being too gentle!
"In particular, the boobs and buttocks and genital area have proved popular places for the concealment of prohibited articles and you must be certain that these areas have been checked. If the alarm on the security arch is activated, you must establish beyond any doubt the reason."
.....So, on the one hand, the Security Officers are being told to be firm - on the other, we feel our dignity is being violated. Lose - Lose situation I would say!
Mind you, if you do feel the search is too intrusive to the point of "interference", you are welcome to bring the matter to the attention of the Security Team Leader.
Bex
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Surely the least intrusive way is to remove the person being searched (as I have been) and ask them to remove their article/s of clothing, and then use the hand scanner?
Although I've no issue at all with being searched, be it my person or my belongings, I do think that some people take a little bit of power and use it to their own ends. You can bet your bottom dollar that had I said, "Hey! Don't squeeze my boobs/bum", I would have been frog marched off somewhere and received a formal warning.
The legalities of it don't really concern me, I do think there are way too many people turned on by the 'claim culture' and the associated disrespecting of authority. Some people are very precious about what they perceive to be 'their rights'. Security is there for our ... security. You can't moan about it on one hand when it holds you up and then moan about it when something goes wrong.
Anyway, I think the question as to what the proper search pattern is has been covered, and I thank those of you that have given your input
Although I've no issue at all with being searched, be it my person or my belongings, I do think that some people take a little bit of power and use it to their own ends. You can bet your bottom dollar that had I said, "Hey! Don't squeeze my boobs/bum", I would have been frog marched off somewhere and received a formal warning.
The legalities of it don't really concern me, I do think there are way too many people turned on by the 'claim culture' and the associated disrespecting of authority. Some people are very precious about what they perceive to be 'their rights'. Security is there for our ... security. You can't moan about it on one hand when it holds you up and then moan about it when something goes wrong.
Anyway, I think the question as to what the proper search pattern is has been covered, and I thank those of you that have given your input
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LH2-security staff DO have a legal right to search you
It's an IMPORTANT distinction. They can inform the Police but they are warranted officers of the law. Security staff are not permitted to frog march you anywhere, that's a Police matter again. Forcibly doing so without a compelling reason to manhandle someone is assault.
Geez life used to be simpler than this ...
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Of course they have a legal right to search you if you wish to proceed airside. I didn't say anything about being frog-marched to police. They would hold you and prevent you from going airside and the police would be called but they are obviously legally allowed to search your belongings and person if you wish to go airside otherwise people would be putting in claims left right and centre
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Actually, they do not have the "legal right" to search you nor can they detain you. They are supposed to ask you first before searching your bags or person. However, most of us just stick our arms up or nod at them if our bag is selected. If you refuse, they will offer you the facility of a private search. If you refuse this, they will tell you that you cannot proceed. It is likely that at this point they will call a police officer because you are either a nutter or you have something to hide.
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Hi, FWIW it's been over two years since I last let a civilian put their hands on me or my stuff. If myself or my bag needs to be searched, I get the police to come and do it, since none else has legal authority to do so.
It works and only takes five minutes extra. You also suddenly get treated with proper respect, funnily enough. Give it a try next time.
It works and only takes five minutes extra. You also suddenly get treated with proper respect, funnily enough. Give it a try next time.
Absolutely no way should she have 'groped' or squeezed you. Using sweeping movements with your hands including the back of your hands should be sufficient to detect anything untoward.
Thanks for the responses, and it was, as I had thought, not right.
With regards to some other posters. I always concentrated especially on the junk area of men because, frankly, its where you find the most stuff they don’t want you to. It’s a winner
Surely the least intrusive way is to remove the person being searched (as I have been) and ask them to remove their article/s of clothing, and then use the hand scanner?
Of course they have a legal right to search you if you wish to proceed airside.
Actually, they do not have the "legal right" to search you nor can they detain you. They are supposed to ask you first before searching your bags or person.
Too many people watch too much American telly and then think UK laws are the same as the US…
So if you feel that the search was inappropriate, can one not call for a police officer and make a formal complaint of indecent assault? Of course you might miss a flight, but if the circumstances appear to justify it, it could be the right thing to do. If the police refuse to do anything, then it's case for the IPCC. That at least gives them enough paperwork to do that they will take the matter seriously......
Incidentally, what about a someone wearing an insulin pump? What do they do then?
Incidentally, what about a someone wearing an insulin pump? What do they do then?