What IS the accepted security 'pat down' search pattern?
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The other problem in this area is the use of jewelery in intimate areas. Anyone with sense would remove it before travelling but, as we know, people seem to lose their common sense when they travel.
If a potential passenger wishes to transit from landside to airside at a UK airport, they must reasonably expect to be have their belongings and person searched. If, when they arrive at the security area, the potential passenger decides not to be searched, then that is their right. Security staff at arches and x-ray machines have NO legal right to demand to search them or their baggage or to detain, arrest or anything else that has been suggested in this thread. Of course, if the potential passenger refuses to be searched, then security staff are absolutely correct to refuse entry airside. They presumably would then ask the potential passenger why they have tried to travel in the first place and if the security staff have grounds to suspect that the potential passenger has something to hide, they could, if they wish, call a police officer.
At the moment, (subject to proposed imminent change) Police officers at aiports have no rights to " stop and search" on suspicion. Of course, someone who has arrived at an airport and refuses to be searched and still tries to gain airside entry would probably give a UK police officer strong grounds to believe an offence is likely to be committed so in reality, they would be dealt with quite firmly.
To the question about insulin pumps or any that may arise about false legs, pacemakers etc, most owners of such devices know exactly how to present themselves to staff and invariably do so.
As an aside, these security staff, both visible to passengers and at aiport worker security stations, are subject to constant checking by independent organisations which pass themselves off as bona fide travellers or airport workers. They are tested on their search and examination techniques and have a pass rate of over 98%.
The role security staff carry out is mandated by government and abhored by passengers and flight crew alike. Despite this, they do the best they can under difficult circumstances to protect all of us who fly.
If they get it right, nothing is said, if they get it wrong, they will live with it for the rest of their lives.
I think we owe them a debt of gratitude.
At the moment, (subject to proposed imminent change) Police officers at aiports have no rights to " stop and search" on suspicion. Of course, someone who has arrived at an airport and refuses to be searched and still tries to gain airside entry would probably give a UK police officer strong grounds to believe an offence is likely to be committed so in reality, they would be dealt with quite firmly.
To the question about insulin pumps or any that may arise about false legs, pacemakers etc, most owners of such devices know exactly how to present themselves to staff and invariably do so.
As an aside, these security staff, both visible to passengers and at aiport worker security stations, are subject to constant checking by independent organisations which pass themselves off as bona fide travellers or airport workers. They are tested on their search and examination techniques and have a pass rate of over 98%.
The role security staff carry out is mandated by government and abhored by passengers and flight crew alike. Despite this, they do the best they can under difficult circumstances to protect all of us who fly.
If they get it right, nothing is said, if they get it wrong, they will live with it for the rest of their lives.
I think we owe them a debt of gratitude.
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I've been random searched ( quota as they call it every morning this week going to work.
What really ticks me off is that on 2 occasions there have been police going through in front of me and they just walk through the scanner unimpeded even though their body armor etc sets off the archway.
What gives them the right to do this when we, drivers airframe, get a going over?
What really ticks me off is that on 2 occasions there have been police going through in front of me and they just walk through the scanner unimpeded even though their body armor etc sets off the archway.
What gives them the right to do this when we, drivers airframe, get a going over?
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Real Slim Shady, I was just going to vent my frustration at the exact same thing. Despite holding exactly the same airside pass as the 2 police officers, when I went through crew security today, it beeped (due to me forgetting to remove my torch from pocket), so it was shoes off and I was thoroughly searched by hand and then by a handheld detector whereas the officers behind me just flashed their ID and walked through, even with a beeping scanner.
It hurts that i've paid for the privilege to be treated like this
738_driver
It hurts that i've paid for the privilege to be treated like this
738_driver
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In uniform a few days ago, presenting my crew badge, my luggage was opened, my underwear layed out in the open, and my belongings scattered, after my bag passed through X-ray. I was in view of hundreds of passengers. My contraband? The same approved pack of flashlight batteries in my rollaway bag that's been there for years.
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I think we owe them a debt of gratitude.
I think we owe a debt of gratitude to front line armed forces, who lay their lives on the line to protect society.
Security staff are paid to do a nice, safe, job near to home.
Last edited by Final 3 Greens; 20th Nov 2008 at 20:47.
F3G
I completely agree but I thought we were writing about security staff.
I think we owe a debt of gratitude to front line armed forces, who lay their lives on the line to protect society.
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philbky
A male friend of mine says that the airport scanners do not react to his intimate jewellery on his (ahem) jewels and he has an eye-watering collection of metal down there. 
And for those male members (Phnarr) of PPRuNe wanting to know how PaxBoy (Gender = Male) knows just how much intimate jewellery his male friends have ... then you ought to visit my naturist club.
The other problem in this area is the use of jewellery in intimate areas
And for those male members (Phnarr) of PPRuNe wanting to know how PaxBoy (Gender = Male) knows just how much intimate jewellery his male friends have ... then you ought to visit my naturist club.
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Just been speaking to a colleague of mine who told me that today he went through security with change in his pocket, his metal watch on his wrist, ring on finger, and metal pen in his front shirt pocket - not really that interesting until he mentioned that the metal detector did not beep and he was ushered through without a problem?
How does that work???
How does that work???
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I completely agree but I thought we were writing about security staff.
A fair days pay for a fair days work in an environment that doesn't begin to compare with the front line.
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I used to use a safety pin to secure my tie from behind, and even that would set off the detector in some locations. It can be subjective, depending on where you go. Some are more sensitive than others.
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Machines are variable. They'll beep for shoes one day, not another. Hence you'll be asked at certain times to take off your belts and shoes (and even once something with a lot of zip). I've even seen a conveyor belt full of chunky rolex's because the staff wanted the heavy watches off. It's about speeding the pax through.
Machines will also randomly beep for a check. Which is annoying for me as I'm a really quick security check-thru guy. I never set off the alarms me!
Unfortunately, some machines will inform the security staff that it is a random check (AMS for example). This could be bad from a security point of view as you don't want the security staff to know why they are searching someone, only that they should be. It's to be expectations. There's another school of thought on the subject but its not one I agree with that says the security staff should expect to find something on every search otherwise they lose faith in their machines. DISCUSS....
Machines will also randomly beep for a check. Which is annoying for me as I'm a really quick security check-thru guy. I never set off the alarms me!
Unfortunately, some machines will inform the security staff that it is a random check (AMS for example). This could be bad from a security point of view as you don't want the security staff to know why they are searching someone, only that they should be. It's to be expectations. There's another school of thought on the subject but its not one I agree with that says the security staff should expect to find something on every search otherwise they lose faith in their machines. DISCUSS....
I don't feel I owe them any more of a debt of gratitude than the local traffic warden
Seems to me these people get a very hard time. What are they supposed to do? They are instructed to check crews, staff and passengers alike. I think one has to accept that armed, badged and uniformed police officers have to be an obvious exception.
I suppose the other way of looking at it is to try and understand how we would all feel about flying if tomorrow, the government said "OK, no more security checks necessary and we'll save £30m a year"
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Given you fly "...120 sectors per year...", I would have thought you might have slightly more reason to thank security screeners than traffic wardens..but of course you are entitled to your view.
Traffic wardens also operate out in the field, often without quick assistance if required.
Also, what about firemen, who risk their lives to help us and doctors/nurses who put themselves in harm's way, both physically and mentally?
My conclusion is that your argument is nonsense, screeners are not owed a debt of gratitude, they receive fair pay for fair work.
Very well, F3G, I understand the point you are making from your view.
Perhaps you would also allow me to make a point from my view without attacking it to harshly
Perhaps you would also allow me to make a point from my view without attacking it to harshly
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RYR738_driver
The sensitivity of metal detection units in the UK seems to vary greatly. When visiting my mother in the Isle of Man, my clothing would not trip the detector at Luton but the same boots on the return journey - would. This was before removing shoes was standard.
I used to comment to the operator that their scanner was set to a lower threshold than the one at Luton. They replied (emphatically) that was not the case and that all arches were set the same in the UK. I made a point of asking about the scanner settings once a year and always got the same reply. Across the 25 years that my mother lived in the island, that was plainly not true and the IOM set theirs more 'sharply'.
How does that work???
I used to comment to the operator that their scanner was set to a lower threshold than the one at Luton. They replied (emphatically) that was not the case and that all arches were set the same in the UK. I made a point of asking about the scanner settings once a year and always got the same reply. Across the 25 years that my mother lived in the island, that was plainly not true and the IOM set theirs more 'sharply'.
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For the sake of balance and fairness, I was searched last night at Heathrow, no idea why the arch alarm went off.
The young man who did the search was courteous and professional.
I told him so afterwards and he seemed pleased to get some positive feedback.
If only his colleagues were uniformly the same - it is because of the generally poor experience that a competent search stands out.
E.g. last week, same airport, same terminal I was "pulled" after the scanner and a very stern faced guard asked me what was the problem with my bag, making quite a big deal of it and askng me to show and explain something they had seen on the scanner.
It seemed that the person operating the scanner could not recognise the hangar built into the suit carrier and thought is was an offensive weapon
No apology for the intimidating attitude, but I was gratified to see a distinct reddening of the facial region when I explained, as requested, what a coat hangar is, what it does and why it isn't an offensive weapon.
To be clear, I have no problem with them checking something out, but the manner was unnecessary.
The young man who did the search was courteous and professional.
I told him so afterwards and he seemed pleased to get some positive feedback.
If only his colleagues were uniformly the same - it is because of the generally poor experience that a competent search stands out.
E.g. last week, same airport, same terminal I was "pulled" after the scanner and a very stern faced guard asked me what was the problem with my bag, making quite a big deal of it and askng me to show and explain something they had seen on the scanner.
It seemed that the person operating the scanner could not recognise the hangar built into the suit carrier and thought is was an offensive weapon
No apology for the intimidating attitude, but I was gratified to see a distinct reddening of the facial region when I explained, as requested, what a coat hangar is, what it does and why it isn't an offensive weapon.
To be clear, I have no problem with them checking something out, but the manner was unnecessary.
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also just posted on a R&N thread
I work (landside usually) at an EU Eastern European capital city airport - I have just come back from seeing the head of security of the national border guard directorate who do passenger security at the terminal
Why?
Well I am (pax) security wise and security friendly I dont even wear a belt when going thru as a passenger and take my watch off and put it in my hand luggage etc. etc. - I am clean at LGW, LHR, PRG and on and on...
Consequently I almost never 'bleep/ and set the security machine off at any airport (as I have no metal on me) - the numb nuts at this particular airport have a policy of searching you quite rightly if the machine does 'beep'...and wait for it...also search you deliberately if you dont make it 'beep' as of course it must be wrong! (and associated long lines waiting to pass security as they end up searching everyone)
What the f!!k!?
Yes I regularly point out what a load of w!nkers they are and have finally vented/expressed my displeasure at the highest level!
I work (landside usually) at an EU Eastern European capital city airport - I have just come back from seeing the head of security of the national border guard directorate who do passenger security at the terminal
Why?
Well I am (pax) security wise and security friendly I dont even wear a belt when going thru as a passenger and take my watch off and put it in my hand luggage etc. etc. - I am clean at LGW, LHR, PRG and on and on...
Consequently I almost never 'bleep/ and set the security machine off at any airport (as I have no metal on me) - the numb nuts at this particular airport have a policy of searching you quite rightly if the machine does 'beep'...and wait for it...also search you deliberately if you dont make it 'beep' as of course it must be wrong! (and associated long lines waiting to pass security as they end up searching everyone)
What the f!!k!?
Yes I regularly point out what a load of w!nkers they are and have finally vented/expressed my displeasure at the highest level!