is ryanair serious?
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SPIT & MartinCh
Guys - have a read around previous posts in this forum about FR to get a feel for how they operate. Booking with them is effectively riding on the back of a tiger: All is well as long as you can stay there, but should the tiger dislodge you, you will discover promptly that tigers bite. Many people avoid this situation by never climbing on the back of the tiger in the first place.
Ryanair are a hugely successful company: They have provided safe and cheap transport to millions of people that otherwise might not have been able to travel. There are no secrets with FR - everybody knows exactly what they are buying, and exactly the kind of company that they are dealing with. Every time a customer makes a purchase, they make a personal judgement call as to whether or not the deal is acceptable to them - in many cases, it is.
What I'm getting at is that complaining about Ryanair is about as productive as complaining about the weather, and about as likely to influence the final outcome - not to mention, about as interesting.
P.S. - Neither FR, nor any other airline, or indeed company of any kind, here or overseas, has any responsibility for providing alternate access to people that do not own a computer. If they did, every web-based service provider in the world would immediately close down.
Guys - have a read around previous posts in this forum about FR to get a feel for how they operate. Booking with them is effectively riding on the back of a tiger: All is well as long as you can stay there, but should the tiger dislodge you, you will discover promptly that tigers bite. Many people avoid this situation by never climbing on the back of the tiger in the first place.
Ryanair are a hugely successful company: They have provided safe and cheap transport to millions of people that otherwise might not have been able to travel. There are no secrets with FR - everybody knows exactly what they are buying, and exactly the kind of company that they are dealing with. Every time a customer makes a purchase, they make a personal judgement call as to whether or not the deal is acceptable to them - in many cases, it is.
What I'm getting at is that complaining about Ryanair is about as productive as complaining about the weather, and about as likely to influence the final outcome - not to mention, about as interesting.
P.S. - Neither FR, nor any other airline, or indeed company of any kind, here or overseas, has any responsibility for providing alternate access to people that do not own a computer. If they did, every web-based service provider in the world would immediately close down.
As an ex airline employee and still international traveller, even though I have retired staff travel privileges (fear not - I can never get on ahead of a commercial passenger) I still look at commercial fares on ALL airlines.
If I absolutely HAVE to be there I don't use staff travel.
There are more occasions than you'd believe when the majors will give you a better deal than the LoCos.
Even if it's a little more, I'd pay and go with a major rather than be treated like a dog by ?????
If I absolutely HAVE to be there I don't use staff travel.
There are more occasions than you'd believe when the majors will give you a better deal than the LoCos.
Even if it's a little more, I'd pay and go with a major rather than be treated like a dog by ?????
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Airlines, not just Ryanair, don't like screen scraping websites for the very simple reason that it gives consumers a choice by presenting all the available routes and fares in one package.
Once they have you searching on their website you are more likely to buy a ticket, even if your first choice of dates aren't available, or your first choice of destination isn't available.
For example, if you fancy a trip to the Xmas markets in Germany but aren't fussed where, you might look at STN - SXF but if the price is too high or the timings don't suit you are probably more inclined to do a quick check on NRN and HHN than to load up the easy or bmibaby sites and start all over.
All about stickiness
Once they have you searching on their website you are more likely to buy a ticket, even if your first choice of dates aren't available, or your first choice of destination isn't available.
For example, if you fancy a trip to the Xmas markets in Germany but aren't fussed where, you might look at STN - SXF but if the price is too high or the timings don't suit you are probably more inclined to do a quick check on NRN and HHN than to load up the easy or bmibaby sites and start all over.
All about stickiness
If Ryanair are going to tell people who have got others to assist with their travel arrangements, like travel agents, that the booking are now void, even though the requested fare has been paid, and Ryanair are pocketing the money but refusing them travel, on the basis of some minor point in their self-written terms and conditions, then they are pretty certainly breaching the UK Unfair Contract Terms Act.
If those passengers bought tickets in the UK and are travelling from the UK, then the CAA are quite within their legal rights to act and shut Ryanair operations down from UK airports until they comply with UK law.
When will the CAA, in particular their Consumer Protection Group, stop going to work each day just to shuffle papers on their way to their MBE and their gold-plated public service pension, and start doing the job they are paid for and stamp out those who take such gross liberties with the law.
If those passengers bought tickets in the UK and are travelling from the UK, then the CAA are quite within their legal rights to act and shut Ryanair operations down from UK airports until they comply with UK law.
When will the CAA, in particular their Consumer Protection Group, stop going to work each day just to shuffle papers on their way to their MBE and their gold-plated public service pension, and start doing the job they are paid for and stamp out those who take such gross liberties with the law.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
If Ryanair are going to tell people who have got others to assist with their travel arrangements, like travel agents, that the booking are now void, even though the requested fare has been paid, and Ryanair are pocketing the money but refusing them travel, on the basis of some minor point in their self-written terms and conditions, then they are pretty certainly breaching the UK Unfair Contract Terms Act.
However, the "Terms and Conditions of Travel" do say:-
Reservations
All bookings for Ryanair flights must be made directly on www.ryanair.com or via a Ryanair call centre. Any booking you may make via a third party website or online travel agent maybe cancelled without notice or refund.
All bookings for Ryanair flights must be made directly on www.ryanair.com or via a Ryanair call centre. Any booking you may make via a third party website or online travel agent maybe cancelled without notice or refund.
So, over to you CAA.
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Ryanair is an Irish airline and the authority is the IAA, not the CAA.
And when did the UK parliament legislate that non conformance with a contract term, which you have agreed to, would not render the contract void?
Which UK national law...not that it is enforceable if the T & Cs are under Irish Law....are you referring to? or is it an EU Law?
Please specify.
And when did the UK parliament legislate that non conformance with a contract term, which you have agreed to, would not render the contract void?
Which UK national law...not that it is enforceable if the T & Cs are under Irish Law....are you referring to? or is it an EU Law?
Please specify.
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Slim,
One of the basic tenants of contract law is that an unfair contract simply isnt enforceable (eg bank charges).
If FR were UK based and they cancelled flights without refund they would doubtless be targeted by trading standards.
Jacob
ps I see this as a decent move on FR's part.
One of the basic tenants of contract law is that an unfair contract simply isnt enforceable (eg bank charges).
If FR were UK based and they cancelled flights without refund they would doubtless be targeted by trading standards.
Jacob
ps I see this as a decent move on FR's part.
If you buy something in the UK (eg paid on your UK Barclaycard) that operates in the UK (eg Ryanair operating out of Stansted) then you can't say Irish law applies. It's a UK commercial transaction. End of discussion.
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Slim,
Ryanair will have terms and conditions for each country it operates in subject to the laws of that country.
Thats why you select your country of origin on the site, so that the legal and currency changes can be applied to you.
Just because a contract has a term in it, doesn't make a contract legal even if you agree to it. You can't sign a contract on an illegal drugs trade and then expect to enforce it in court.
As Jacob says, this has been applied to Bank Charges were the amount charged is excess to what the law allows them to charge and as a result makes such an agreement voidable.
Jacob,
As said, if you operate within a country you must respect the laws of that country that is why Ryanair have had a number of fights with the Office of Fair Trade over their advertisments.
Ryanair will have terms and conditions for each country it operates in subject to the laws of that country.
Thats why you select your country of origin on the site, so that the legal and currency changes can be applied to you.
Just because a contract has a term in it, doesn't make a contract legal even if you agree to it. You can't sign a contract on an illegal drugs trade and then expect to enforce it in court.
As Jacob says, this has been applied to Bank Charges were the amount charged is excess to what the law allows them to charge and as a result makes such an agreement voidable.
Jacob,
As said, if you operate within a country you must respect the laws of that country that is why Ryanair have had a number of fights with the Office of Fair Trade over their advertisments.
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Jacob
The condition that the ticket has to be purchased via the FR website is hardly an unfair, or unjust, condition. Easyjet probably has a similar condition in the T and Cs. Is it unfair or unjust that FR have a 15kg bag limit while BA have 23kgs?
Preduk
Slight drift from the topic: no one is suggesting that the FR condition is illegal in the first place.
WHBM
I don't dispute that the purchase in the UK is protected by UK legislation, or that FR have to abide by national laws, regardless of which country they operate, but how many people actually bother to read through the T and Cs for anything when they make a purchase?
The condition that the ticket has to be purchased via the FR website is hardly an unfair, or unjust, condition. Easyjet probably has a similar condition in the T and Cs. Is it unfair or unjust that FR have a 15kg bag limit while BA have 23kgs?
Preduk
Slight drift from the topic: no one is suggesting that the FR condition is illegal in the first place.
WHBM
I don't dispute that the purchase in the UK is protected by UK legislation, or that FR have to abide by national laws, regardless of which country they operate, but how many people actually bother to read through the T and Cs for anything when they make a purchase?
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Slim,
My feeling is that if FR attempted to retain monies relating to flights that they had cancelled due to a 'technical' breach of Ts and Cs then under UK law they could find themselves in trouble - its not so much the condition thats unfair as the penalty associated with it.
Totally hypothetical as I dont think they would try it and they arent in the UK (Irish Law isnt my strong suit).
Jacob
My feeling is that if FR attempted to retain monies relating to flights that they had cancelled due to a 'technical' breach of Ts and Cs then under UK law they could find themselves in trouble - its not so much the condition thats unfair as the penalty associated with it.
Totally hypothetical as I dont think they would try it and they arent in the UK (Irish Law isnt my strong suit).
Jacob
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Jacob
I quite agree.
The cancellation does seem quite draconian: a more proportionate solution might have been to warn the ticket holders that future bookings made through a third party would not be honoured and make it quite clear that the bookings have to made on the FR website.
I quite agree.
The cancellation does seem quite draconian: a more proportionate solution might have been to warn the ticket holders that future bookings made through a third party would not be honoured and make it quite clear that the bookings have to made on the FR website.
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Tighslot & Others, Ryanair do provide a service for non-computer owners, who can book through their call centre, or have I missed your point! 
However, this process is fraught with higher fares, and often long queue times!
I believe the phone number may be on their newspaper adverts, but don't have one with me today!
However, this process is fraught with higher fares, and often long queue times!I believe the phone number may be on their newspaper adverts, but don't have one with me today!
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Tighslot & Others, Ryanair do provide a service for non-computer owners, who can book through their call centre, or have I missed your point! However, this process is fraught with higher fares, and often long queue times!
I believe the phone number may be on their newspaper adverts, but don't have one with me today!
However, this process is fraught with higher fares, and often long queue times!I believe the phone number may be on their newspaper adverts, but don't have one with me today!
This is probably just another Ryanair money-making scam, ensuring that people without computers are forced to pay through the nose to book a flight.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
But the provision that if you buy the ticket through a third party, your booking may be cancelled without refund, seems to me to be very likely to be offensive. That may well be why the reports that I've seen suggest that FR is actually refunding the customers whose bookings are being cancelled for this reason.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
I wonder how "people without computers" would make the third-party screenscraper website bookings that Ryanair are complaining about?
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Travellers who booked through screenscrapers are being refunded and asked to go to the Ryanair website to rebook.
Ryanair is well within its rights to do this, and if travel agents/agencies wish to book Ryanair flights on behalf of their clients, they can arrange to do so with Ryanair. AFAIK Ryanair is not completely unreasonable. They've said in the past that they are amenable to arrangements. Seems like "unauthorised" agents are being bumped.
As much as it annoys you, the airline doesn't care because they will get other customers from elsewhere. I've made my dislike of Ryanair clear elsewhere on PPRuNe in the past, and the latest development only reinforces my view.
If you don't like what Ryanair does, there's Easyjet, BMI or the scheduled carrier.
:-)
S.
Ryanair is well within its rights to do this, and if travel agents/agencies wish to book Ryanair flights on behalf of their clients, they can arrange to do so with Ryanair. AFAIK Ryanair is not completely unreasonable. They've said in the past that they are amenable to arrangements. Seems like "unauthorised" agents are being bumped.
As much as it annoys you, the airline doesn't care because they will get other customers from elsewhere. I've made my dislike of Ryanair clear elsewhere on PPRuNe in the past, and the latest development only reinforces my view.
If you don't like what Ryanair does, there's Easyjet, BMI or the scheduled carrier.
:-)
S.