Making things better for the passenger - Check-in
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Making things better for the passenger - Check-in
Why should each airline have its own check-in desks? Concentrating the passengers for a flight into one small area all at the same time just creates queues and congestion. You see it all the time at airports everywhere.
From personal observation it seems to me that an airline will usually occupy 4 check-in desks (1 for First/Business and 3 for Economy) for about 2¼ hours – 2 hours actual processing time and 15 minutes to set up/wipe down before vacating for another airline to use.
Again from observation a flight of (say) 200 passengers is processed in about 90-100 minutes (about 2 minutes per passenger) which means that the desks are not actually working for a third of the time they are occupied by the airline.
If half the passengers arrive at check-in on time there will be a queue of at least 25 people at each desk for the first 45 minutes.
Using that as a benchmark, an airport handling (say) 30 similar sized departures an hour will require a minimum of 270 manned check-in desks.
Now for the really freaky bit.
Reduce the total number of check-in desks to 200 (a 26% saving for the airport operator), keep them permanently open and make them available for any passenger on any departure.
200 passengers turn up on time for their flight to find 200 check-in desks available for them to use. 2 minutes later their check-in is complete.
The next 200 passengers arrive for their flight to find 200 recently vacated check-in desks ready for them to use. 2 minutes later – and so on and so on.
Don’t believe me? Do the math yourself.
This is probably what British Airways wanted to achieve at Heathrow Terminal 5. They were, after all, the sole users of the available check-in desks. What screwed them was the collapse of the baggage handling system for reasons that have yet to be determined (and published) although there is a question as to how many check-in points were actually open.
From personal observation it seems to me that an airline will usually occupy 4 check-in desks (1 for First/Business and 3 for Economy) for about 2¼ hours – 2 hours actual processing time and 15 minutes to set up/wipe down before vacating for another airline to use.
Again from observation a flight of (say) 200 passengers is processed in about 90-100 minutes (about 2 minutes per passenger) which means that the desks are not actually working for a third of the time they are occupied by the airline.
If half the passengers arrive at check-in on time there will be a queue of at least 25 people at each desk for the first 45 minutes.
Using that as a benchmark, an airport handling (say) 30 similar sized departures an hour will require a minimum of 270 manned check-in desks.
Now for the really freaky bit.
Reduce the total number of check-in desks to 200 (a 26% saving for the airport operator), keep them permanently open and make them available for any passenger on any departure.
200 passengers turn up on time for their flight to find 200 check-in desks available for them to use. 2 minutes later their check-in is complete.
The next 200 passengers arrive for their flight to find 200 recently vacated check-in desks ready for them to use. 2 minutes later – and so on and so on.
Don’t believe me? Do the math yourself.
This is probably what British Airways wanted to achieve at Heathrow Terminal 5. They were, after all, the sole users of the available check-in desks. What screwed them was the collapse of the baggage handling system for reasons that have yet to be determined (and published) although there is a question as to how many check-in points were actually open.
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Check in
You have a point except the airline want you to check in with there staff in there uniforms
Not a bad idea but come to think of it is this what the big US airlines do in the states ????
Not a bad idea but come to think of it is this what the big US airlines do in the states ????
Paid...Persona Grata
Quite right, Cater, and quite a few pax want to make queries about the flight that can only be answered by staff of the airline concerned. Fortunately, as apaddinuk says, for the rest of us there are the newer on-line check in facilities and airport kiosks which I have to say are a great advance.
UFO
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I believe in the past it's been like this to allow airlines to provide branding and allow SLF to know which desks they go to. They also allow multiple flights leaving within a certain amount of time to check in together (i.e. a flight to BCN, a flight to MUC and a flight to FRA, all the same airline, but all leaving within 30 minutes of each other, check in through the same desks).
But with technological advances, you should be able to provide large LCD/OLED/projector screens that display branding, which allows more flexibility as to where the airline is checking in. Dynamic check-in desks for airlines with one or two flights a day could be useful, especially once check-in closes for the only flight in the morning, and another airline adjacent needs more desks. LTN has this kind of flexible arrangement.
I'd venture to guess that it would be more on a capacity/daily basis rather than a flight basis.
S.
But with technological advances, you should be able to provide large LCD/OLED/projector screens that display branding, which allows more flexibility as to where the airline is checking in. Dynamic check-in desks for airlines with one or two flights a day could be useful, especially once check-in closes for the only flight in the morning, and another airline adjacent needs more desks. LTN has this kind of flexible arrangement.
I'd venture to guess that it would be more on a capacity/daily basis rather than a flight basis.
S.
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It is a very nice idea, however you have to remember that most airlines use their own checkin/departure system to process the passengers. It is just not possible to check in all flight departures on one desk if say there are 20 differant airlines all with their own system, the agent on the desk will be spending ages flicking from one system to another, then there is the case of product knowledge, a hell of a lot for one staff member to remember if checking in 20 differant carriers.
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Xeque,
You are a busy person.
Your idea is sound but the competetive element of the different airlines would make it diificult to sell.
The number of desks and time open varies a lot between carriers and the market they are serving.
e.g. Ryan air is 2 desk 2 hours before departure.
PIA used to be (in my experience a few years ago) 3 Business/First ans 5 economy for a B747 opening from 5 hours (progressively) before departure.
Mansp.
Not quite right.
Most airports operate a CUTE (common user terminal equipment) system and there are now several 'front end' options that allow the check-in agent to use the same inputs no matter which airline system (even though more and more airlines are outsourcing their IT) is used.
Common check-in, where more than one flight for a single carrier is checked in on the same desk at the same time, is a more effficient use of desk space tha single flight check-in. If you have around 10 flights departing over a limited period you can nmormally save about 30% oif check-in resource but you do need more floor walking to haul late passengers out of queues.
The real issue/question is will airports of the future actually have check-in desks. We already see some carriers going to 100% kiosk (and on-line) check-in with a sepeate bag drop. Outside the UK, Germany for example, it is possible to check-in with baggage without coming into contact with an agent at any form of desk. This is the real future. The technology is already available. T5 would be an example (OK, probably not a good one just yet) whereby the total number of check-in desks available will be less than the totals of those available to BA in the other terminals used before the move.
Lastly,
Quote
"Reduce the total number of check-in desks to 200 (a 26% saving for the airport operator), keep them permanently open and make them available for any passenger on any departure."
Great in theory, and fine for check-in. The problem is down in the baghalls and the number of flights that can be handled simultaneoulsy - this is normally a physical restriction of how many trailers/ULD's can be in place at any one time and secondly, the number of workers to move the bags off the system. Again, T5 is a good example of what can happen if you do not move the bags off the system effectively.
Most of the points raised by Xeque have been thought of, tried and adapted to get the best use of resources within a competetive industry.
GH
You are a busy person.
Your idea is sound but the competetive element of the different airlines would make it diificult to sell.
The number of desks and time open varies a lot between carriers and the market they are serving.
e.g. Ryan air is 2 desk 2 hours before departure.
PIA used to be (in my experience a few years ago) 3 Business/First ans 5 economy for a B747 opening from 5 hours (progressively) before departure.
Mansp.
Not quite right.
Most airports operate a CUTE (common user terminal equipment) system and there are now several 'front end' options that allow the check-in agent to use the same inputs no matter which airline system (even though more and more airlines are outsourcing their IT) is used.
Common check-in, where more than one flight for a single carrier is checked in on the same desk at the same time, is a more effficient use of desk space tha single flight check-in. If you have around 10 flights departing over a limited period you can nmormally save about 30% oif check-in resource but you do need more floor walking to haul late passengers out of queues.
The real issue/question is will airports of the future actually have check-in desks. We already see some carriers going to 100% kiosk (and on-line) check-in with a sepeate bag drop. Outside the UK, Germany for example, it is possible to check-in with baggage without coming into contact with an agent at any form of desk. This is the real future. The technology is already available. T5 would be an example (OK, probably not a good one just yet) whereby the total number of check-in desks available will be less than the totals of those available to BA in the other terminals used before the move.
Lastly,
Quote
"Reduce the total number of check-in desks to 200 (a 26% saving for the airport operator), keep them permanently open and make them available for any passenger on any departure."
Great in theory, and fine for check-in. The problem is down in the baghalls and the number of flights that can be handled simultaneoulsy - this is normally a physical restriction of how many trailers/ULD's can be in place at any one time and secondly, the number of workers to move the bags off the system. Again, T5 is a good example of what can happen if you do not move the bags off the system effectively.
Most of the points raised by Xeque have been thought of, tried and adapted to get the best use of resources within a competetive industry.
GH
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Groundhand
Yes, i know most airports nowadays use CUTE, however this is just a gateway into the differant airline systems, unless the airlines or handling agent have agreed to use a system like BABEL (which costs more money) which sits on top of the operating system and allows the user to use the same entries for every system the agent would still have to know about the differant airline DCS.
Saying that, i do agree with your comment about if airports/airlines are actually having a agent sat on a check in desk soon, it is going more and more to self service, CUSS machines, internet checkin, and now boarding cards on your mobile.
Here is hoping that pax still prefer that human elemant or alot of staff are going to be out of a job in the years to come, however i do think it will happen someday.
Yes, i know most airports nowadays use CUTE, however this is just a gateway into the differant airline systems, unless the airlines or handling agent have agreed to use a system like BABEL (which costs more money) which sits on top of the operating system and allows the user to use the same entries for every system the agent would still have to know about the differant airline DCS.
Saying that, i do agree with your comment about if airports/airlines are actually having a agent sat on a check in desk soon, it is going more and more to self service, CUSS machines, internet checkin, and now boarding cards on your mobile.
Here is hoping that pax still prefer that human elemant or alot of staff are going to be out of a job in the years to come, however i do think it will happen someday.
If the CUSTOMER (note the shout - they're the ones who ultimately pay the wages for the management as well as the deserving front end staff!) have a problem, they need a person. That person needs to know the particular airline system fairly intimately if they are to help effectively. Especially for the non-frequent or even the 'never flown before' flyers. So it need particular airline or agent personnel with good training. That's a problem, because it means spending money, which hits management bonuses.......
Then there's the machines (eg Venice Marco Polo - an airport nearly as bad as LHR!) that won't accept an airline FF card, but need to know the eticket number - which you don't know unless you've been to some difficulty to get it.
Then there's the machines (eg Venice Marco Polo - an airport nearly as bad as LHR!) that won't accept an airline FF card, but need to know the eticket number - which you don't know unless you've been to some difficulty to get it.
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Radeng,
Don't disagree but look at other service industries that used to offer customer facing staff.
The customer, as you rightly say, pay the wages of all involved in aviation. However, the customer buys (or not) a product that is offered at a price. It is the product that is changing.
Sadly, I think that within 5-7 years, airport check-in as we know and love/hate it at present will be a thing of the past. 99.9+% of passengers will self check in one way or another and some carriers will not offer 'personal' assistance at airports; others will. Such is competition and product variance.
Don't disagree but look at other service industries that used to offer customer facing staff.
The customer, as you rightly say, pay the wages of all involved in aviation. However, the customer buys (or not) a product that is offered at a price. It is the product that is changing.
Sadly, I think that within 5-7 years, airport check-in as we know and love/hate it at present will be a thing of the past. 99.9+% of passengers will self check in one way or another and some carriers will not offer 'personal' assistance at airports; others will. Such is competition and product variance.
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Thank you (the last couple of posters) for some good (and pleasant) responses. Can I ask, because I haven't experienced it yet, how baggage check without an agent being present works (GH says they have them in Germany). How do they ensure that tags are affixed properly, how do they check that bags are securely closed, how do they deal with overweight/oversize bags, how do they ask 'did you pack this bag yourself?. When I was thinking through what I wanted to say in this thread it seemed to me that, yes, you can do everything up to printing the boarding card before you got to the airport but what about checked baggage?
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Xeque,
It was at Munich and I was on a Lufthansa flight.
The process (this was nearly 2 years ago so apologies if the sequence is wrong) for check-in with baggage:
Use kiosk (I would think also available on the internet) to check-in.
During check-in process asked if you have hold baggage.
If yes, number of bags to check-in.
Collect your boarding card/s and are sent to an automatic bag desk.
At the bag desk you put your boarding card into the system; you are then asked to verify the number of bags.
Place your bag on the scales/belt.
You are asked security questions about your bag. Assuming you answer correctly process continues.
If the bag is within weight/size limits the desk produces a bag tag and the screen gives you instructiuons on how to attach it to your bag.
Attach the tag as instructed and OK the screen.
The desk then scans the bag and tag and, if all is OK, releases the bag into the bag system and returns your boarding card.
(if you have more than one bag the weigh/tag process is repeated etc before your boarding card is returned)
If your bag is overweight or oversized the bag desk rejects it and you are directed to a manned desk. Similarly, I suspect if you answer the security incorrectly you will be sent to a manned desk.
The whole process from arriving to seeing bag disappear down the belt was less than 2 minutes.
Happy to be corrected by any other ppruner.
My role at that time had some involvement with very high volumes of passenger check-in and I was fascinated with this process - it was the first I had experienced - and, as I was early at the airport for my flight, I watched about 15 passengers use the facility; all without any problems.
GH
It was at Munich and I was on a Lufthansa flight.
The process (this was nearly 2 years ago so apologies if the sequence is wrong) for check-in with baggage:
Use kiosk (I would think also available on the internet) to check-in.
During check-in process asked if you have hold baggage.
If yes, number of bags to check-in.
Collect your boarding card/s and are sent to an automatic bag desk.
At the bag desk you put your boarding card into the system; you are then asked to verify the number of bags.
Place your bag on the scales/belt.
You are asked security questions about your bag. Assuming you answer correctly process continues.
If the bag is within weight/size limits the desk produces a bag tag and the screen gives you instructiuons on how to attach it to your bag.
Attach the tag as instructed and OK the screen.
The desk then scans the bag and tag and, if all is OK, releases the bag into the bag system and returns your boarding card.
(if you have more than one bag the weigh/tag process is repeated etc before your boarding card is returned)
If your bag is overweight or oversized the bag desk rejects it and you are directed to a manned desk. Similarly, I suspect if you answer the security incorrectly you will be sent to a manned desk.
The whole process from arriving to seeing bag disappear down the belt was less than 2 minutes.
Happy to be corrected by any other ppruner.
My role at that time had some involvement with very high volumes of passenger check-in and I was fascinated with this process - it was the first I had experienced - and, as I was early at the airport for my flight, I watched about 15 passengers use the facility; all without any problems.
GH
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Thanks GH. I can see that would work provided it was a multi-lingual system. I am also thinking about computer literacy. Many passengers are elderly and I know some that have trouble with an ATM. You may still need to have people around help them out.
groundhand,
I guess it's a case of you don't always get that for which you paid, but you hardly ever get that for which you haven't paid. It sounds as if it will be the same with customer service people. I can see it: 'Yes sir, you have a problem because the machine can't read your FF card. That will be £5 for me to look at the problem, and after the first 5 minutes, it will be £1 per minute - even if you've just spent £8000 on a First Class return to Australia'.
I'll be too old for travelling much in 7 or 8 years. Probably a good thing.
I guess it's a case of you don't always get that for which you paid, but you hardly ever get that for which you haven't paid. It sounds as if it will be the same with customer service people. I can see it: 'Yes sir, you have a problem because the machine can't read your FF card. That will be £5 for me to look at the problem, and after the first 5 minutes, it will be £1 per minute - even if you've just spent £8000 on a First Class return to Australia'.
I'll be too old for travelling much in 7 or 8 years. Probably a good thing.
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I'll see soon how LH does it in FRA - I'm scheduled in June to fly via FRA.
But from past experience I know that BA in HAM still used the fast baggage drop style system. You checked yourself in using the kiosk, then collected your boarding pass and trundled over to the FBD to drop your bag off.
S.
But from past experience I know that BA in HAM still used the fast baggage drop style system. You checked yourself in using the kiosk, then collected your boarding pass and trundled over to the FBD to drop your bag off.
S.
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If on the basis airports are a branch of the retail sector, then look at the manner in which large s/markets are removing till operators to be replaced with self service tills, so airports are just using the tech. available in a way to get through flow of the footfall in a given space.
So as the technology is not just avialable but being implemented - self- serve check ins and the like as well as online operations, and soon a 'no operator' security gate with photo recognition software - heaven help the 'older pax' who wants to have the assurance of a human to get them through the system. Or just a 'regular' pax who wants to speak to a person, not a machine...
I have often seen the help given to pax who are either just plain disorientated in an airport or on the other hand are too 'worried' to notice signs or instructions, and hope the airlines will continue to maintiain the manned desks....
I note that loco carriers haven't gone the route yet of self serve in the way mainstream caerriers have - wouldn't it be sight to see pax turn up 5 mins late for check in to be unable to 'speak to an operator' but instead be met with a metal box refusing to issue a pass....and suggesting on screen they contact the help deak - blimey, thats one MOL has missed out on - think of the 'phone revenues!! Fantastic!!
Is the cost of maintaining the technology too high for the locos compared to staff turnover?
So as the technology is not just avialable but being implemented - self- serve check ins and the like as well as online operations, and soon a 'no operator' security gate with photo recognition software - heaven help the 'older pax' who wants to have the assurance of a human to get them through the system. Or just a 'regular' pax who wants to speak to a person, not a machine...
I have often seen the help given to pax who are either just plain disorientated in an airport or on the other hand are too 'worried' to notice signs or instructions, and hope the airlines will continue to maintiain the manned desks....
I note that loco carriers haven't gone the route yet of self serve in the way mainstream caerriers have - wouldn't it be sight to see pax turn up 5 mins late for check in to be unable to 'speak to an operator' but instead be met with a metal box refusing to issue a pass....and suggesting on screen they contact the help deak - blimey, thats one MOL has missed out on - think of the 'phone revenues!! Fantastic!!
Is the cost of maintaining the technology too high for the locos compared to staff turnover?
Yet the strange thing appears to be that out sourcing cuts the pay bill (so they say) and wages get pushed down, but it's still too expensive to hire workers.
And it's T5 for me again to day......
And it's T5 for me again to day......
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Nickmo,
Some loco have gone for kiosk solutions - try EZY at EMA, it is 100% kiosk and they have several airports where kiosks are available.
Most locos are going the internet check-in solution rather than airport kiosks. They see this as the futureand it is cheaper for them.
I do find it interesting that in aviation a lot of people (passengers) indicate that not having 'a human' to interact with represents poor service yet, these same people probably make journeys by train, underground, busses or other transit system and do so happily without the human interface. Why do people think that aviation should be different to other forms of transport?
Some loco have gone for kiosk solutions - try EZY at EMA, it is 100% kiosk and they have several airports where kiosks are available.
Most locos are going the internet check-in solution rather than airport kiosks. They see this as the futureand it is cheaper for them.
I do find it interesting that in aviation a lot of people (passengers) indicate that not having 'a human' to interact with represents poor service yet, these same people probably make journeys by train, underground, busses or other transit system and do so happily without the human interface. Why do people think that aviation should be different to other forms of transport?
Paxing All Over The World
groundhand A good question and I think that it is simply down to what people have got used to. Many years ago, there was a Conductor on every bus to help the pax, reassure and give directions. Now there are hardly any. Train stations used to have porters and numerous other staff on the platform to do the same - not now.
So the airline world is simply the last of public transport to have lower fares and higher costs reach breaking point. Children that are just starting to travel by air now, will grow up knowing that the ONLY way to fly is to book and check-in online and then use a kiosk at the airport.
So the airline world is simply the last of public transport to have lower fares and higher costs reach breaking point. Children that are just starting to travel by air now, will grow up knowing that the ONLY way to fly is to book and check-in online and then use a kiosk at the airport.
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TP uses 'Common Europe Check-In' in OPO and others. Any flights out of OPO for TP use the same 5 - 8 desks at the same time. No separate flight check-in desks.
Of course, TP recommends that you check in online and get your boarding card printed at home, which means that you only have to drop the luggage off and get it all over with quickly.
S.
Of course, TP recommends that you check in online and get your boarding card printed at home, which means that you only have to drop the luggage off and get it all over with quickly.
S.
