On Line or Web Check In - Courtesy Please
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On Line or Web Check In - Courtesy Please
In times of disruption, it is soul-destroying to see flights departing with empty seats when there were pax from cancelled flights that wanted them!
PLEASE can I ask, if you are an OLCI and you discover you can't make it to the airport on time, or you change your travel plans, if it is at all possible to let someone at your airline know, it would be appreciated!
(At Heathrow, we had to offload some OLCI pax off nearly every flight yesterday, and of course by the time we realise at the gate that they're not going to pitch up, it's too late to accept any from upstairs at check-in!)
PLEASE can I ask, if you are an OLCI and you discover you can't make it to the airport on time, or you change your travel plans, if it is at all possible to let someone at your airline know, it would be appreciated!
(At Heathrow, we had to offload some OLCI pax off nearly every flight yesterday, and of course by the time we realise at the gate that they're not going to pitch up, it's too late to accept any from upstairs at check-in!)
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I sympathise with your sentiments. However:
I was booked on a BA flight yesterday (from LCY) which was ultimately cancelled.
Having looked out of the window at the fog and suspected there might be a problem when I got to the airport, I tried calling the BA "reservations/changes in booking" line to ask for information and advice and potentially change my flight, but I was chucked off the line ("too many calls
) and asked to use the website or call back later.
The BA website a) had no information about possible/actual cancellations at LCY and b) wouldn't allow me to change my flight online to another from Heathrow or Gatwick.
I tried calling the "dedicated Executive Club silver cardholder" line but, yep, "we are experiencing high call volumes, please hold the line". Funny how lots of people call helplines when there's a problem.
Fortunately while waiting in vain for an answer for BA, I have by now consulted the City Airport and BBC weather websites, and concluded my trip to LCY is likely to be pointless and lead to an unwanted extra night in London.
So I log onto the Luton airport website and see flights departing normally, logon to easyJet.com and book myself a flight from Luton to Edinburgh. After a trouble-free journey to Luton and an only slightly late departure, I arrive in EDI around an hour later than my original schedule.
I feel by my actions I have fulfilled my moral duty to inform BA of my planned no show. However not only have BA failed to inform me of the likely or actual cancellation of my flight (having asked me for my mobile number for this very purpose), they've singularly failed to provide sufficient resources (phone lines or people) to cope with a relatively minor and not unforseeable "crisis".
So PLEASE: if you work for BA, ask yourself: is it your company's deliberate policy to treat your domestic customers so badly that they are forced onto your competitors' services ?
Also - I hope you appreciate the irony that while "full service" airlines can supposedly cope in the event of a crisis, in reality I received no service from the full service airline, and received an excellent service from the "low cost, no frills" competitor. Which leads me to think the differentiation isn't cost, it's competence.
13Alpha
I was booked on a BA flight yesterday (from LCY) which was ultimately cancelled.
Having looked out of the window at the fog and suspected there might be a problem when I got to the airport, I tried calling the BA "reservations/changes in booking" line to ask for information and advice and potentially change my flight, but I was chucked off the line ("too many calls
) and asked to use the website or call back later.The BA website a) had no information about possible/actual cancellations at LCY and b) wouldn't allow me to change my flight online to another from Heathrow or Gatwick.
I tried calling the "dedicated Executive Club silver cardholder" line but, yep, "we are experiencing high call volumes, please hold the line". Funny how lots of people call helplines when there's a problem.
Fortunately while waiting in vain for an answer for BA, I have by now consulted the City Airport and BBC weather websites, and concluded my trip to LCY is likely to be pointless and lead to an unwanted extra night in London.
So I log onto the Luton airport website and see flights departing normally, logon to easyJet.com and book myself a flight from Luton to Edinburgh. After a trouble-free journey to Luton and an only slightly late departure, I arrive in EDI around an hour later than my original schedule.
I feel by my actions I have fulfilled my moral duty to inform BA of my planned no show. However not only have BA failed to inform me of the likely or actual cancellation of my flight (having asked me for my mobile number for this very purpose), they've singularly failed to provide sufficient resources (phone lines or people) to cope with a relatively minor and not unforseeable "crisis".
So PLEASE: if you work for BA, ask yourself: is it your company's deliberate policy to treat your domestic customers so badly that they are forced onto your competitors' services ?
Also - I hope you appreciate the irony that while "full service" airlines can supposedly cope in the event of a crisis, in reality I received no service from the full service airline, and received an excellent service from the "low cost, no frills" competitor. Which leads me to think the differentiation isn't cost, it's competence.
13Alpha
Last edited by 13Alpha; 24th Dec 2007 at 20:41. Reason: correction
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Sorry - my original post didn't make it clear. I realise that as I had said much the same thing on Flyertalk and I realised later. What I meant was:
I'm not going to speak too harshly, because it's often difficult to speak to anyone at BA - particularly at times of disruption. Sometimes our telephones ring for ages before they're answered or sometimes , if someone's stuck in the middle of the M25, it's not practical to phone (I don't want anyone getting fined or jailed for using a mobile whilst driving on my account!)
My post is just intended to make people aware of the implications of being OLCI'd and then not showing up - your seat may have been very valuable to get some luckless stranded guy home! (Even when there's no disruption to speak of, we may have a "Missed Connection" passenger standing by for a spare seat!)
All I would like to say is if it is possible to let us know in advance that you can't make your flight, it would be really appreciated!
Thank you - and Happy Christmas - it's not far away now!
I'm not going to speak too harshly, because it's often difficult to speak to anyone at BA - particularly at times of disruption. Sometimes our telephones ring for ages before they're answered or sometimes , if someone's stuck in the middle of the M25, it's not practical to phone (I don't want anyone getting fined or jailed for using a mobile whilst driving on my account!)
My post is just intended to make people aware of the implications of being OLCI'd and then not showing up - your seat may have been very valuable to get some luckless stranded guy home! (Even when there's no disruption to speak of, we may have a "Missed Connection" passenger standing by for a spare seat!)
All I would like to say is if it is possible to let us know in advance that you can't make your flight, it would be really appreciated!
Thank you - and Happy Christmas - it's not far away now!
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I realise you're not talking here in an official capacity for BA - and I do understand that you had a frustrating time watching flights leaving with empty seats, leaving people behind who wanted to fill them. People should have the courtesy to contact BA when they've checked in and then changed their plans.
However I think you'll find that a significant number of people who did this were UNABLE to contact BA because they COULDN'T get through on the telephone and, like me, gave up in frustration.
What I'm saying is - the company could be doing some simple things to help its frontline staff deal with problems like yesterday's fog more successfully. Updating its website properly and allocating enough staff to answer calls from its customers would be a start.
Anyway. It's Christmas now - hope you have a good one.
13Alpha
However I think you'll find that a significant number of people who did this were UNABLE to contact BA because they COULDN'T get through on the telephone and, like me, gave up in frustration.
What I'm saying is - the company could be doing some simple things to help its frontline staff deal with problems like yesterday's fog more successfully. Updating its website properly and allocating enough staff to answer calls from its customers would be a start.
Anyway. It's Christmas now - hope you have a good one.
13Alpha
bealine, that's just the problem - it's just not possible! At times of disruption there's not a cat in Hell's chance of getting through to anyone. Do you honestly expect me to hold the line for an hour waiting to get through? I think the problem doesn't lie with us, the pax, but with the airlines' inability to cope with the obvious increase in the volume of calls severe weather problems is going to bring.
Paxing All Over The World
I was not travelling this weekend, but had family delayed at LGW and eventually canx. I know FlyBe tried to fill the gaps because I heard about the efforts from someone on the inside, but the family had the usual lack of info and they were sitting in the terminal.
Every carrier now asks for email and mobile (cell) phone number as standard. So ...
Firstly: Send an SMS to the pax warning of possible delays. This can be done automatically by a computer and is old hat technology. Even a standard PC running an SMS gateway application with the right network connection from your data centre, could generate 158 msgs (a 734?) in less two minutes and then the various networks will have them out in less than five. YES some pax won't have their phone on, or with them, or have lent it to granny - that's their problem. When the SMS is sent, the computer logs the receipt form the network, so you can prove the time that the pax mobile phone network had the msg.
Second: Pull up the expected pax list and immediately see (on screen) who has OLCI'd and then phone them to ask where they are and what their situation is.
Third: Check who has not OLCI'd and see if they are in the terminal and done a local check in.
Fourth: Look at your list of pax that are in the terminal and waiting from other flights and SMS them to come to the desks.
The carriers (not just BA, to let Bealine off the hook!) can allocate the phone task to a couple of staff who take half the list each and work through it. Perhaps some back office staff can do this, as front line staff will be overrun by folks at the desk.
Don't expect the pax to call in - because they will land up with a busy tone, or talking to a call centre in another country. Get the staff at the departure airport to call the pax.
Having worked in telecommunications, data centres and call centres for 25 years I know that it is a piece of cake. A standard plan is drawn up and then you just implement the computer to SMS the numbers you took when you booked the pax, making it clear why you want the number.
Example:- passing through the new terminal at MUC on LH two years ago, they changed the gate after I had checked in. Guess what? I got an SMS to tell me.
Sorry Bealine, I know that you are well intentioned and doing your very best. But your employer does not always do the same.
Every carrier now asks for email and mobile (cell) phone number as standard. So ...
Firstly: Send an SMS to the pax warning of possible delays. This can be done automatically by a computer and is old hat technology. Even a standard PC running an SMS gateway application with the right network connection from your data centre, could generate 158 msgs (a 734?) in less two minutes and then the various networks will have them out in less than five. YES some pax won't have their phone on, or with them, or have lent it to granny - that's their problem. When the SMS is sent, the computer logs the receipt form the network, so you can prove the time that the pax mobile phone network had the msg.
Second: Pull up the expected pax list and immediately see (on screen) who has OLCI'd and then phone them to ask where they are and what their situation is.
Third: Check who has not OLCI'd and see if they are in the terminal and done a local check in.
Fourth: Look at your list of pax that are in the terminal and waiting from other flights and SMS them to come to the desks.
The carriers (not just BA, to let Bealine off the hook!) can allocate the phone task to a couple of staff who take half the list each and work through it. Perhaps some back office staff can do this, as front line staff will be overrun by folks at the desk.
Don't expect the pax to call in - because they will land up with a busy tone, or talking to a call centre in another country. Get the staff at the departure airport to call the pax.
Having worked in telecommunications, data centres and call centres for 25 years I know that it is a piece of cake. A standard plan is drawn up and then you just implement the computer to SMS the numbers you took when you booked the pax, making it clear why you want the number.
Example:- passing through the new terminal at MUC on LH two years ago, they changed the gate after I had checked in. Guess what? I got an SMS to tell me.
Sorry Bealine, I know that you are well intentioned and doing your very best. But your employer does not always do the same.
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Yes - PAXBoy. Unfortunately, I know only too well that phones at BA go unanswered - especially at a time of crisis!
I will suggest to our Im department that the OLCI Boarding Pass is printed with a phone number or email addy to advise if the passenger can't make the flight. I underatand Air France does this.
My posting was in no way critical - it was intended just to make people aware that once they have checked-in, if they miss the flight or change their mind about travelling, some other poor sod might find their vacant seats useful!
........anyway Happy Christmas to all Ppruners out there! I'm off to work to try to get some more poor people home!
I will suggest to our Im department that the OLCI Boarding Pass is printed with a phone number or email addy to advise if the passenger can't make the flight. I underatand Air France does this.
My posting was in no way critical - it was intended just to make people aware that once they have checked-in, if they miss the flight or change their mind about travelling, some other poor sod might find their vacant seats useful!
........anyway Happy Christmas to all Ppruners out there! I'm off to work to try to get some more poor people home!
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Hi, this is _slightly_ off-topic. I will be very impressed when an airline will be able, consistently, to act promptly on this 'last minute' information (PAX checked in, announces he/she will not be able to show up for boarding). I found myself in this situation, few years ago when connecting at CDG. Back then, I was not very successful to pass on this kind of time-critical information ... even talking directly to the airline staff. Answer given was "there is nothing I can do, you have to go to talk to my colleagues at terminal 2". Nice to see that things have improved!
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Why should the OLCI pax call in and cancel?
They are most likely travelling on a non refundable ticket, so there is no incentive to cancel.
After all, they have purchased the seat for that flight - if you buy a pound of sausages from the butcher and then do not eat them, there is no moral compulsion to give them to someone else.
If the airline wishes to reuse that seat in the event of disruption, it should incentivise the passenger to cancel, with say a 50% refund for doing so, which is a win-win-win outcome.
A SMS to all OLCI pax and the ability to handle calls or SMSs back could achieve that aim easily, as PaxBoy says.
They are most likely travelling on a non refundable ticket, so there is no incentive to cancel.
After all, they have purchased the seat for that flight - if you buy a pound of sausages from the butcher and then do not eat them, there is no moral compulsion to give them to someone else.
If the airline wishes to reuse that seat in the event of disruption, it should incentivise the passenger to cancel, with say a 50% refund for doing so, which is a win-win-win outcome.
A SMS to all OLCI pax and the ability to handle calls or SMSs back could achieve that aim easily, as PaxBoy says.
Paxing All Over The World
F3G - spot on. If it was bad weather and I got a call offering to take my ticket back, I might accept - even if I had been planning to travel. It's a natural extension of VDB, which has been around for years. That means carriers don't have to find some other excuse to break their own rules (which they hate doing as they think it starts a slippery slope) they can just use the process they already have to offer Voluntary Denied Boarding. It's not just win-win but win-win-win: Carrier-1st pax-2nd pax!
Paxing All Over The World
I would pass them on but I can see them falling on deaf ears.
No need. In a few years time some bright young thing will put them forward as his own and receive high praise for 'moving the industry forward' when they will start treating pax the way they did in the 1960s ... Later he will lecture on "The New Aviation Paradigm"
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Bealine (and others)
You are living in a past time, when airline operations were part of a public transport system and seen as a service to the community. Concerns about "helping people to get home for Christmas" belong to that era.
BA got away from all that years ago. The only desire of airline management nowadays is to maximise their profitability, using air service as a means to an end. If they can pocket the fare and then say "you didn't turn up so don't blame us" then that achieves their aim. If the cost of providing additional staff and phone systems outweighs any revenue gain from the information they handle, that is the way to go.
BA are not going to proactively ask if you are still going to travel because you will ask for your money back if you take up their offer to cancel. The seat is sold; if they cancel and refund it is only a chance that a percentage will be resold.
Incidentally, if when check-in closes you do not have enough time left to fill the untaken seats with others waiting at the airport, that is your problem to sort out your procedures to handle this, not something to stick on the pax. I always thought that "Gate closes 40 minutes before departure" and all that stuff was to facilitate such events, but as many of us now know this is a complete fiction, and it is often the case that at the time of this "final deadline" the staff have not yet arrived to even start processing the passengers and the incoming aircraft is not even scheduled to be on stand yet.
You are living in a past time, when airline operations were part of a public transport system and seen as a service to the community. Concerns about "helping people to get home for Christmas" belong to that era.
BA got away from all that years ago. The only desire of airline management nowadays is to maximise their profitability, using air service as a means to an end. If they can pocket the fare and then say "you didn't turn up so don't blame us" then that achieves their aim. If the cost of providing additional staff and phone systems outweighs any revenue gain from the information they handle, that is the way to go.
BA are not going to proactively ask if you are still going to travel because you will ask for your money back if you take up their offer to cancel. The seat is sold; if they cancel and refund it is only a chance that a percentage will be resold.
Incidentally, if when check-in closes you do not have enough time left to fill the untaken seats with others waiting at the airport, that is your problem to sort out your procedures to handle this, not something to stick on the pax. I always thought that "Gate closes 40 minutes before departure" and all that stuff was to facilitate such events, but as many of us now know this is a complete fiction, and it is often the case that at the time of this "final deadline" the staff have not yet arrived to even start processing the passengers and the incoming aircraft is not even scheduled to be on stand yet.
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Online checkin is an oxymoron; invented by airlines to save themselves some money. So now they are finding the downsides - tough.
I always thought that "checking in" was to show the airline that you were actually at the airport and ready to get on their flight..........
Last week my beloved "checked in" for a flight from another country. So much could have stopped him getting to his seat.........but, as already stated, it was a non-refundable flight. He had paid for it and so could choose to send it off empty.
If the airlines want to start getting reasonable and abiding by "normal" terms and conditions (half the price for a one-way, no "discounts" for staying saturday night etc) then they may have a leg to stand on. Tesco have never based their price for a loaf of bread on whether I wanted to make sandwiches for work, a kiddies birthday party or simply keep it "in case of need". BA are free to follow the same rules - or go back to "checking in" meaning exactly that!
I always thought that "checking in" was to show the airline that you were actually at the airport and ready to get on their flight..........
Last week my beloved "checked in" for a flight from another country. So much could have stopped him getting to his seat.........but, as already stated, it was a non-refundable flight. He had paid for it and so could choose to send it off empty.
If the airlines want to start getting reasonable and abiding by "normal" terms and conditions (half the price for a one-way, no "discounts" for staying saturday night etc) then they may have a leg to stand on. Tesco have never based their price for a loaf of bread on whether I wanted to make sandwiches for work, a kiddies birthday party or simply keep it "in case of need". BA are free to follow the same rules - or go back to "checking in" meaning exactly that!
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Online checkin is an oxymoron; invented by airlines to save themselves some money. So now they are finding the downsides - tough.
It is people like me that work with our customers who find the downside, or the customers themselves - like the woman whose son had been knocked off his motorcycle and was in the Intensive Care Unit in a hospital near Stuttgart! She was waitlisted for my flight because her inbound flight misconnected and didn't travel because, in theory, our flight was full.
The only thing was, our flight departed with four empty seats because four On Line Check In pax failed to show at the airport!
So, you see, British Airways doesn't care - it will still get the revenue from those seats. The woman in question didn't care because she never knew the flight had empty seats (but she might never have got to see her son alive!)
The only person who cares is me, because I still care about people! Why should I be made to suffer when I didn't make the decisions to encourage On Line Check In (indeed, I can't see any need for it beyond a seat reservation function!) Like you, I was always of the opinion that checking in was a declaration that you were at the airport and ready to fly!
SIGH - maybe I do belong in the past when airline people behaved like gentlemen and words like "money" and "profit" were never talked about in decent society! Customers also used to care about their fellow travellers too!
To be perfectly honest, sometimes when I read the responses on Pprune, Flyertalk and other Bulletin Boards, I feel very depressed at the general selfishness of people and the "couldn't care less" attitude we're developing.
I am beginning to feel as if I do belong to a previous age (thanks for the reminder WHBM) and people are just waiting for me to shuffle off and await my day of reckoning with the Great Architect of the Universe!
Last edited by bealine; 31st Dec 2007 at 21:26.
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So lets get this straight, the woman's flight "misconnected" (??) - I guess that means the inbound was late and BA couldn't manage to offload one no show in the 40 minute period between gate closure and departure.
And this means that the pax who didn't show are selfish individuals, reflective of a changing society?
Forgive me, but I just don't get this one.
And this means that the pax who didn't show are selfish individuals, reflective of a changing society?
Forgive me, but I just don't get this one.
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Actually 45 minutes available...
From BA.com:
I suspect part of Bealine's problem is the straight jacket the wizz bang computer systems impose on the front line staff. In the past I have several times arrived at an airport early and ticket desk staff have been able to "force" me onto an earlier flight which was just about to depart or running late. Not any more though!
It's this removal of traditional customer service which really annoys me; I can tolerate the security and crowded terminals, but when I really need help the staff can't really do anything.
From BA.com:
From 28 October 2007, British Airways has introduced a new minimum check-in time of 45 minutes for all flights departing from London's Heathrow and Gatwick airports, with the aim of easing your journey through the airport and providing a consistent check-in time
It's this removal of traditional customer service which really annoys me; I can tolerate the security and crowded terminals, but when I really need help the staff can't really do anything.
Paxing All Over The World
That makes sense Haven't, the airlines (like all organisations) have been trying to reduce the number of variables in each 24 hours. Variables cost money as they require intelligent staff intervention and there is a continuing belief by mgmt that technology can take care of most of the variables. (Keep in mind that I have been involved with technology for some 28 years) Intelligent staff cost money and so the solution is obvious...
However, the actual way in which the variables are taken out of the system is to remove staff discretion and empower them () to say that the computer will not allow it. This is one of the basic ways that companies have been able to spout that 'Customer Service' is improving and yet, in fact, it is being reduced. We are all familiar with this sequence:
OK, that's my New Year Rant ticked off the to-do list!
However, the actual way in which the variables are taken out of the system is to remove staff discretion and empower them (
) to say that the computer will not allow it. This is one of the basic ways that companies have been able to spout that 'Customer Service' is improving and yet, in fact, it is being reduced. We are all familiar with this sequence:- Problem with a product or service arises.
- Phone supplier and get processed through telephone keypad hop-scotch or referred to similar in their web site.
- IF you speak to a human, they are full of sympathy and consideration for your problem. If the website, then it will be full of directions that always point you towards another page of so-called information that will lead you back to the first page. This is fresh in my mind as it happened last week.
- The human or the website will take lots of details.
- Nothing happens.
OK, that's my New Year Rant ticked off the to-do list!