On Line or Web Check In - Courtesy Please
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..........BA couldn't manage to offload one no show in the 40 minute period between gate closure and departure.
(Unlike America, commercial stand by passengers are held at check-in and not permitted to access the gates until in possession of a seat number.)
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Re. bealine
Please do continue to care for this sort of thing... do not pay (too much) attention to FlyerTalk which in my opinion
is not really representative of what most passengers (not e-passengers) think. There was a similar subject some time ago, whether or not to tell the airline if/when/after one decides not to fly the last segment of one's trip, and the general opinion was not to! BTW I have never used on-line check-in and will continue to discourage my colleagues from using it, because I want to continue to talk to people able to analyze an unforeseen situation and to act accordingly.
Thanks !
Please do continue to care for this sort of thing... do not pay (too much) attention to FlyerTalk which in my opinion
is not really representative of what most passengers (not e-passengers) think. There was a similar subject some time ago, whether or not to tell the airline if/when/after one decides not to fly the last segment of one's trip, and the general opinion was not to! BTW I have never used on-line check-in and will continue to discourage my colleagues from using it, because I want to continue to talk to people able to analyze an unforeseen situation and to act accordingly.Thanks !
Unfortunately if you eschew OLCI and wait until the desk opens at the airport you will find all the pleasant seats are gone and you are stuck in 63E with your non-reclining seat back against the rear galley.
And I wonder why the US, with its ridiculous over-zealousness for security matters, can nevertheless manage to have standby pax down at the gate whereas in the UK we cannot manage it. Once again it sounds like carriers just not organising themselves for passenger primacy, or airport and airline blaming it on each other. Goodness, in the US even non-travellers, such as those bringing UMs to/from the airport, can, provided they jump through the security bureaucracy, get down to both departure and arrival gates.
And I wonder why the US, with its ridiculous over-zealousness for security matters, can nevertheless manage to have standby pax down at the gate whereas in the UK we cannot manage it. Once again it sounds like carriers just not organising themselves for passenger primacy, or airport and airline blaming it on each other. Goodness, in the US even non-travellers, such as those bringing UMs to/from the airport, can, provided they jump through the security bureaucracy, get down to both departure and arrival gates.
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As a PAX, online check-in doesn't gain me much other than reserving a seat.
If I have hold baggage I need to go to a desk when I get to the airport anyway. And if I don't, in comparison to the time it takes to get through security (at most UK airports anyway), having to checkin at a machine when I arrive at the airport isn't a big deal.
So if the airlines provided an on-line seat reservation facility and made sure there were enough self check-in machines at the airport I wouldn't quibble if they withdrew online checkin.
13Alpha
If I have hold baggage I need to go to a desk when I get to the airport anyway. And if I don't, in comparison to the time it takes to get through security (at most UK airports anyway), having to checkin at a machine when I arrive at the airport isn't a big deal.
So if the airlines provided an on-line seat reservation facility and made sure there were enough self check-in machines at the airport I wouldn't quibble if they withdrew online checkin.
13Alpha
Paxing All Over The World
So if the airlines provided an on-line seat reservation facility and made sure there were enough self check-in machines at the airport I wouldn't quibble if they withdrew online checkin.
Also, bear in mind that the machines at the airport cost money to buy, service and rental for the space they occupy - so if they can reduce the number of machines that is also 'good'.
Please do not fret about this loss of customer service, as there is nothing that you or I can do about it. Much easier just to pass through the experience listening to your iPod and ignoring it all.
At least the Gold Card on BA gets you the First Class check in, and the early choice of seats. How long that will last, I don't know. I will defend BA upon one count though - I find the staff at check in and the cabin crew are excellent, far better than any other airline I've used, despite the way the management appears to try to run a 'Business Prevention Department' to thwart them. Baggage tracking is another matter and a total disaster. The lounge staff at LHR are very variable, but LGW are universally good. I'm flying from LGW to VCE again on Jan 28, so I'll see how it goes.
They could do better with a dedicated BA lounge at CDG, rather than the very limited Air France one....
They could do better with a dedicated BA lounge at CDG, rather than the very limited Air France one....
I will defend BA upon one count though - I find the staff at check in and the cabin crew are excellent, far better than any other airline I've used, despite the way the management appears to try to run a 'Business Prevention Department' to thwart them. Baggage tracking is another matter and a total disaster.
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Hmm, yes. I'll try not to be too harsh, bealine but, as often happens, I agree with what PAXboy and F3G have said. And in addition to a) actually being meaningfully contactable and b) incentivising me to tell you I'm not coming by actually allowing me at least some of my money back, how's about this one:
If my flight home for Xmas (or whenever, but that is rather fresh in the memory) is delayed because it hasn't even left the previous airport yet, you allow me to get to the airport in time for when it's going to be boarding, not for four hours earlier when it should have been? I'm not talking about an aircraft going tech on the apron - I'm talking about when the delay is inevitable and known in advance.
If my flight home for Xmas (or whenever, but that is rather fresh in the memory) is delayed because it hasn't even left the previous airport yet, you allow me to get to the airport in time for when it's going to be boarding, not for four hours earlier when it should have been?
I'm not talking about an aircraft going tech on the apron - I'm talking about when the delay is inevitable and known in advance.
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Ummm 13Alpha, I think that you will find the airlines are doing the exact opposite. They are hoping to make OLCI compulsory and reduce the staff at the airport to the minimum. Ideally, in their minds, the staff there will have no other function than to check pieces of paper, weigh bags and invite the customer to telephone the airline! In other words, they will have no discretionary powers.
13Alpha
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Originally Posted by radeng 
I will defend BA upon one count though - I find the staff at check in and the cabin crew are excellent, far better than any other airline I've used, despite the way the management appears to try to run a 'Business Prevention Department' to thwart them. Baggage tracking is another matter and a total disaster.
I will defend BA upon one count though - I find the staff at check in and the cabin crew are excellent, far better than any other airline I've used, despite the way the management appears to try to run a 'Business Prevention Department' to thwart them. Baggage tracking is another matter and a total disaster.
Yes, that's also my experience. It's almost as if there are two BAs - "Frontline BA" and "Back office BA". With different objectives and speaking different languages.
Frontline BA has to deal with the everyday consequences of the failures of Back office BA. Meanwhile Back Office BA complains that Frontline BA costs too much and wants to subcontract it all to someone else.
But it would be unfair to single out BA, I'm sure other legacy airlines are just as bad. It's what happens when big companies get old and forget what made them big companies in the first place.
13Alpha
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PAXboy, you said "this loss of customer service [...] there is nothing that you or I can do about it". Well, very little, I agree; "nothing" - would not go so far. But I don't have a good idea yet. As a passenger, even if I travel very often, my main worry is to get my real job done, indeed. So in the end I implicitely rely on bealine and his/her colleagues, to try limit as much as possible this degradation of customer service. After all, we as passengers will not go on strike even if we are unhappy with the "back office" objectives.
Paxing All Over The World
13Alpha, yes, noted that you meant that OLCI gave little to clients. Also, certainly the case that old companies forget what made them great, it happens all the time. One of the current candidates is VS.
I wonder if part of it is that the back office staff have seen a faster turnover than front office? Could it be that the recruitment and training of front line staff is still 'old school'? That is, 'look after the customer'? If so, then we shall really notice it when bealine and colleagues leave or retire. He is one of the most reliable informants here and often takes a pounding for his troubles.
One of the other big problems for airlines is that the back office staff are sooooo far away from the customers. It's not just in the office block across from the terminal, but they are in call and data centres across the country and do not see the problems every day. Nor, I'll bet, do their managers.
(Slight thread drift)
One area where I now work, takes me to locations where the office block is sometimes close coupled with the venue for their customers and others, where the office is 1,000+ yards down the drive. Colleagues and I have noticed that, if the staff walk out of their office and are immediately surrounded by customers - they are more receptive to problems. When the working area is remote, then the office staff tend to be remote. Of course, an airline cannot get all it's staff through the terminal every quarter - but someone has to accurately represent the problem.
A real difficulty is that most large companies have, over the past 15 years, split themselves into discreet sections and given more autonomy. That means that they concentrate on just fixing their own problems and are less concerned about the complete picture. That leaves it to the senior managers to link it all together. Ooops, sounds like another problem.
I wonder if part of it is that the back office staff have seen a faster turnover than front office? Could it be that the recruitment and training of front line staff is still 'old school'? That is, 'look after the customer'? If so, then we shall really notice it when bealine and colleagues leave or retire. He is one of the most reliable informants here and often takes a pounding for his troubles.
One of the other big problems for airlines is that the back office staff are sooooo far away from the customers. It's not just in the office block across from the terminal, but they are in call and data centres across the country and do not see the problems every day. Nor, I'll bet, do their managers.
(Slight thread drift)
One area where I now work, takes me to locations where the office block is sometimes close coupled with the venue for their customers and others, where the office is 1,000+ yards down the drive. Colleagues and I have noticed that, if the staff walk out of their office and are immediately surrounded by customers - they are more receptive to problems. When the working area is remote, then the office staff tend to be remote. Of course, an airline cannot get all it's staff through the terminal every quarter - but someone has to accurately represent the problem.
A real difficulty is that most large companies have, over the past 15 years, split themselves into discreet sections and given more autonomy. That means that they concentrate on just fixing their own problems and are less concerned about the complete picture. That leaves it to the senior managers to link it all together. Ooops, sounds like another problem.
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13Alpha
If that was the evening BA departure (around 7ish I think) then it did operate but from Southend. I only know this as a friend was trying to get on BA from LCY-GLA and was offered it from the BA ticket desk at City Airport, just a thought that it's not always pointless to go to City airport first when the fog comes down.
I was booked on a BA flight yesterday (from LCY) which was ultimately cancelled.
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13Alpha
Quote:
I was booked on a BA flight yesterday (from LCY) which was ultimately cancelled.
If that was the evening BA departure (around 7ish I think) then it did operate but from Southend. I only know this as a friend was trying to get on BA from LCY-GLA and was offered it from the BA ticket desk at City Airport, just a thought that it's not always pointless to go to City airport first when the fog comes down.
Quote:
I was booked on a BA flight yesterday (from LCY) which was ultimately cancelled.
If that was the evening BA departure (around 7ish I think) then it did operate but from Southend. I only know this as a friend was trying to get on BA from LCY-GLA and was offered it from the BA ticket desk at City Airport, just a thought that it's not always pointless to go to City airport first when the fog comes down.
But it's a good point, I've been "bus"ed to Southend from LCY in the past (when the ILS was being fixed a couple of years ago).
13Alpha
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13Alpha, yes, noted that you meant that OLCI gave little to clients. Also, certainly the case that old companies forget what made them great, it happens all the time. One of the current candidates is VS.
I wonder if part of it is that the back office staff have seen a faster turnover than front office? Could it be that the recruitment and training of front line staff is still 'old school'? That is, 'look after the customer'? If so, then we shall really notice it when bealine and colleagues leave or retire. He is one of the most reliable informants here and often takes a pounding for his troubles.
).
One of the other big problems for airlines is that the back office staff are sooooo far away from the customers. It's not just in the office block across from the terminal, but they are in call and data centres across the country and do not see the problems every day. Nor, I'll bet, do their managers.
(Slight thread drift)
One area where I now work, takes me to locations where the office block is sometimes close coupled with the venue for their customers and others, where the office is 1,000+ yards down the drive. Colleagues and I have noticed that, if the staff walk out of their office and are immediately surrounded by customers - they are more receptive to problems. When the working area is remote, then the office staff tend to be remote. Of course, an airline cannot get all it's staff through the terminal every quarter - but someone has to accurately represent the problem.
A real difficulty is that most large companies have, over the past 15 years, split themselves into discreet sections and given more autonomy. That means that they concentrate on just fixing their own problems and are less concerned about the complete picture. That leaves it to the senior managers to link it all together. Ooops, sounds like another problem.
One area where I now work, takes me to locations where the office block is sometimes close coupled with the venue for their customers and others, where the office is 1,000+ yards down the drive. Colleagues and I have noticed that, if the staff walk out of their office and are immediately surrounded by customers - they are more receptive to problems. When the working area is remote, then the office staff tend to be remote. Of course, an airline cannot get all it's staff through the terminal every quarter - but someone has to accurately represent the problem.
A real difficulty is that most large companies have, over the past 15 years, split themselves into discreet sections and given more autonomy. That means that they concentrate on just fixing their own problems and are less concerned about the complete picture. That leaves it to the senior managers to link it all together. Ooops, sounds like another problem.
, and, in fact, my employer. When I worked in telecoms second line support, the direct contact I had with customers who had experienced problems made me significantly more motivated to get the IT systems correct 
In most industries there are examples of companies which do get it right. It's all comes down to decent leadership and making sure the whole company shares a few common objectives.
My impression in aviation is that easyJet are doing things pretty well in this respect. Their staff seem happy, seem to work as a team (back and front office) and they seem able to cope well when things do go wrong.
13Alpha
To give some idea of back office at BA......I had a flight the other year where I was sitting next to a BA FO on his way to LHR to take up duty. He told me that a couple of weeks previously, he'd gone along to head office (Waterside or Riverside or whateve it's called) for his medical. Having some time to kill, he went into the canteen for a coffee, dressed in uniform, and someone asked him what work he did for the airline.....
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My impression in aviation is that easyJet are doing things pretty well in this respect
Good point.
I like the BA product, but not the service.
I like the easyJet service, but not the product.
On balance, I tend to use easyJet over BA, which tells me that I rate service as more important than product on short haul flights.
Good point.
I like the BA product, but not the service.
I like the easyJet service, but not the product.
On balance, I tend to use easyJet over BA, which tells me that I rate service as more important than product on short haul flights.
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Lucky?
Sometimes things do work out for the best...
Was booked on one of the fog-bound BA flights LHR to ABZ on 23.12.07. Just leaving home when I received a text from BA to warn the flight cancelled. Went home again.
Spent 30 mins calling Exec Club...eventually got through to a person who says will re-book me on first flight the next morning. [Having looked at Met Office website, whilst waiting for call to be answered, this doesn’t inspire much confidence.]
“Hang on”...says I, what about Gatwick this afternoon...any spaces on their remaining flights to ABZ?
He checked and there was. I legged it to LGW... and made it home earlier that I should have made it ex LHR.
I got lucky. Many didn’t and had I accepted the offer of the next day’s flight, there was every chance I would have spent Christmas day at the Penta, or whatever it calls itself these days.
I guess the point I am trying to make is that it helps to know your route, your options and be persistent. Also, IMHO, do your best to get the person who answers the phone on-side when your call is eventually taken. My chap was (understandably) stressed having had to deal with a torrent of calls; trying to help him work the problem worked in my favour.
Had the flight been with Easyjet and the fog been at Luton...then I would have been stuffed.
Hence, I choose BA over Easy for Service and Product.
[Off thread, but the day the LGW-ABZ route is binned later this year will be a sad one. Another kick in the teeth for those who use BA from ABZ regularly to London now that all the wonderful BA check in staff at ABZ have been removed and replaced by automatons. I wonder whether I will be able to post such a pro-BA post after next Christmas’s fog saga?]
Was booked on one of the fog-bound BA flights LHR to ABZ on 23.12.07. Just leaving home when I received a text from BA to warn the flight cancelled. Went home again.
Spent 30 mins calling Exec Club...eventually got through to a person who says will re-book me on first flight the next morning. [Having looked at Met Office website, whilst waiting for call to be answered, this doesn’t inspire much confidence.]
“Hang on”...says I, what about Gatwick this afternoon...any spaces on their remaining flights to ABZ?
He checked and there was. I legged it to LGW... and made it home earlier that I should have made it ex LHR.
I got lucky. Many didn’t and had I accepted the offer of the next day’s flight, there was every chance I would have spent Christmas day at the Penta, or whatever it calls itself these days.
I guess the point I am trying to make is that it helps to know your route, your options and be persistent. Also, IMHO, do your best to get the person who answers the phone on-side when your call is eventually taken. My chap was (understandably) stressed having had to deal with a torrent of calls; trying to help him work the problem worked in my favour.
Had the flight been with Easyjet and the fog been at Luton...then I would have been stuffed.
Hence, I choose BA over Easy for Service and Product.
[Off thread, but the day the LGW-ABZ route is binned later this year will be a sad one. Another kick in the teeth for those who use BA from ABZ regularly to London now that all the wonderful BA check in staff at ABZ have been removed and replaced by automatons. I wonder whether I will be able to post such a pro-BA post after next Christmas’s fog saga?]
Last edited by 2infinity; 3rd Jan 2008 at 17:19. Reason: Spelling
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Nice one - glad you got home for Christmas.
The main reason I opted for easyJet from Luton was because BA DIDN'T text me to say my LCY flight had been cancelled, nor did they say anything on their website about their LCY flights. If they had, I'd have been more inclined to give BA from LGW a shot. The fact that you got a text about your LHR flight but I didn't just confirms my suspicion that BA's LCY operation isn't properly hooked up with mainline BA.
For sure easy can be affected by weather too, but because they don't operate from LHR, and don't sacrifice their domestic operation at the first sign of disruption to their international flights, I'm more inclined to trust them to get me home when the weather's bad or there's any other disruption. They were still operating all their flights from Luton in the fog on the 23rd, except (ironically) for their ABZ flight.
As you say though, if you travel frequently on a route, you'll probably have a better chance of anticipating events than a guy in a call centre, and work out the best option for you.
13Alpha
The main reason I opted for easyJet from Luton was because BA DIDN'T text me to say my LCY flight had been cancelled, nor did they say anything on their website about their LCY flights. If they had, I'd have been more inclined to give BA from LGW a shot. The fact that you got a text about your LHR flight but I didn't just confirms my suspicion that BA's LCY operation isn't properly hooked up with mainline BA.
For sure easy can be affected by weather too, but because they don't operate from LHR, and don't sacrifice their domestic operation at the first sign of disruption to their international flights
, I'm more inclined to trust them to get me home when the weather's bad or there's any other disruption. They were still operating all their flights from Luton in the fog on the 23rd, except (ironically) for their ABZ flight.As you say though, if you travel frequently on a route, you'll probably have a better chance of anticipating events than a guy in a call centre, and work out the best option for you.
13Alpha
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13Alpha what you have to remember with "BA" at LCY is that it is Cityflyer and not mainline! Up until Cityflyer was brought into existance in March 2007 BA didnt know where LCY was, they never actively promoted it on the website and never advertised it at all, so dont be suprised if when you try and contact BA about LCY flights they dont know what you are talking about!!