Truly Disturbing passenger behaviour.
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Truly Disturbing passenger behaviour.
Flew into the UK last night, j class, and sat next to a middle aged couple (Brits) who had 5A&B. I was across the aisle from them and when they boarded they seemd OK, apart from the champagne wasn't cold enough etc. etc. Taxying out, they insisted on a 2nd round of champagne, which they kept hold of through take off, which actually annoyed me a bit, but thats a separate issue. Anyway, as we took off they held hands, and started to pick out items from the Duty free book as gifts for each other,and I thought, yeah, thats nice.
After a few more scoops, it was time for dinner, and he wanted champagne, white wine, and red wine. And so it continued, for about an hour or so.
Then it really started.
They had a loud argument, ending in him giving her a proper thump or two in the face. I was shocked, and livid. I got up, went forward, and mentioned to the CC that there was a "domestic in 5AB, and that they might want to keep an eye. "No problem, thank for letting us know, we'll keep a watching brief, incase it escalates" was the reply.
Well, it DID escalate, he assaulted her physically no less than 5 times, and verbally continuosly, for the rest of the flight. When she got up to go and find another seat he physically dragged her back, and replaced her luggage in the overhead bins. everytime he had a drink, it started again, often witnessed by the CC.
What action did the CC take ? None other than to continue to supply him with vast quantities of Booze, exacerbating the situation.
So, the quesstion is, what should they / could they have done to end this truly awful display of abuse ?
After a few more scoops, it was time for dinner, and he wanted champagne, white wine, and red wine. And so it continued, for about an hour or so.
Then it really started.
They had a loud argument, ending in him giving her a proper thump or two in the face. I was shocked, and livid. I got up, went forward, and mentioned to the CC that there was a "domestic in 5AB, and that they might want to keep an eye. "No problem, thank for letting us know, we'll keep a watching brief, incase it escalates" was the reply.
Well, it DID escalate, he assaulted her physically no less than 5 times, and verbally continuosly, for the rest of the flight. When she got up to go and find another seat he physically dragged her back, and replaced her luggage in the overhead bins. everytime he had a drink, it started again, often witnessed by the CC.
What action did the CC take ? None other than to continue to supply him with vast quantities of Booze, exacerbating the situation.
So, the quesstion is, what should they / could they have done to end this truly awful display of abuse ?
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Intoxicated pax
He should have been secured as per standard procs for all UK carriers.
Suggest you report this to the carrier direct with all flt data.
Suggest you report this to the carrier direct with all flt data.
tezzer hello,
Nice of you to point out to the cc about these pax. I thing they handled the issue correctly since the gentleman in question created no hazard to other pax but the lady travelling with him. I seem to recall crew stating that it is a good idea not to cut off completely the supply of Booze as not to enrage the pax. And at the end of the day what happends between a couple (sort of a murder) is not our business - in most cases.
I think you did your duty as you felt fit and you can let the case rest.
Rwy in Sight
Nice of you to point out to the cc about these pax. I thing they handled the issue correctly since the gentleman in question created no hazard to other pax but the lady travelling with him. I seem to recall crew stating that it is a good idea not to cut off completely the supply of Booze as not to enrage the pax. And at the end of the day what happends between a couple (sort of a murder) is not our business - in most cases.
I think you did your duty as you felt fit and you can let the case rest.
Rwy in Sight
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"And at the end of the day what happends between a couple (sort of a murder) is not our business - in most cases."
Unbelievable attitude.
A man assaults a woman 5 times and it is not the crew's business to interfere?
The police should have been waiting at the pier and arrested the perp on the aircraft and the guy should have been restrained.
Runway in Sight, are you saying that crew are are qualified as clinical psychologists and able to make accurate risk assessments as to whether this guy was likely to turn on someone else?
Tezzer, I agree with merlin XX and applaud you for taking positive action.
Unbelievable attitude.
A man assaults a woman 5 times and it is not the crew's business to interfere?
The police should have been waiting at the pier and arrested the perp on the aircraft and the guy should have been restrained.
Runway in Sight, are you saying that crew are are qualified as clinical psychologists and able to make accurate risk assessments as to whether this guy was likely to turn on someone else?
Tezzer, I agree with merlin XX and applaud you for taking positive action.
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Tezzer what a dreadful experience. Very difficult situation for the CC but I would not have been happy with such a hands-off response. I don't expect CC to be vigilantes. But if they are prepared to restrain drunken/abusive passengers, then why not for a prolonged, violent domestic such as this? Never mind whether we decree domestics to be a 'private matter' (hmmm) ,to me this repellant man's behaviour was clearly upsetting for other pax and that is ground enough for more intervention.
Final 3 Greens,
No, I am not say that crew are are qualified as clinical psychologists and thus they can't make accurate and watertight assesment. However I still like to point out the issue was contained within seats 5A&B. I am not supporting domestic violence but my understanding is that cc gets involved when a situation tends to get clearly out of hand by annoying (how to say it?) pax out of his travelling party. For exemple if the gent in question try to attack tezzer.
Rwy in Sight
No, I am not say that crew are are qualified as clinical psychologists and thus they can't make accurate and watertight assesment. However I still like to point out the issue was contained within seats 5A&B. I am not supporting domestic violence but my understanding is that cc gets involved when a situation tends to get clearly out of hand by annoying (how to say it?) pax out of his travelling party. For exemple if the gent in question try to attack tezzer.
Rwy in Sight
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I have to add, that this morning I am still disturbed by what I experienced last night.
That poor woman. Having said that, there are two sides to every story, and from my Seat 5C, across the aisle, I acould hear what he was saying / shouting, but apart from her repeated shouts for him to leave her alone, I couldn't hear the full dialogue.
That poor woman. Having said that, there are two sides to every story, and from my Seat 5C, across the aisle, I acould hear what he was saying / shouting, but apart from her repeated shouts for him to leave her alone, I couldn't hear the full dialogue.
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As I said in the CC forum, this is a tough one.
We are trained that statistically, your chances of being attacked when intervening in a domestic disturbance is very high. Both parties will turn on you. This is evident on the ground as it is in the air.
Separating them was a good idea. If it was my flight, I would have been pushing for restraining action at the point where he was dragging her back to her seat. Crew would have also had to prepare to restrain her, if need be.
Diversion would have been a last resort as it does inconvenience everyone and will cost money. You are also leaving the passengers in an outstation that will do nothing more than put them on the next flight once they've sobered up.
Arrest on arrival in the UK is probably the best option but as Tezzer said, they were taking pills. I can see the pax claiming stress, alcohol combined with pills, squeezing out a few tears and copping a fine.
Clearly, it is unacceptable. I know I would find it difficult NOT to get involved. I couldn't stand by and watch anyone being hit on the aircraft. However if you are a young, slim, female crew member, it would be very frightening and you have your own safety to consider. You can't always rely on other passengers to help you out, either, in situations like this.
We are trained that statistically, your chances of being attacked when intervening in a domestic disturbance is very high. Both parties will turn on you. This is evident on the ground as it is in the air.
Separating them was a good idea. If it was my flight, I would have been pushing for restraining action at the point where he was dragging her back to her seat. Crew would have also had to prepare to restrain her, if need be.
Diversion would have been a last resort as it does inconvenience everyone and will cost money. You are also leaving the passengers in an outstation that will do nothing more than put them on the next flight once they've sobered up.
Arrest on arrival in the UK is probably the best option but as Tezzer said, they were taking pills. I can see the pax claiming stress, alcohol combined with pills, squeezing out a few tears and copping a fine.
Clearly, it is unacceptable. I know I would find it difficult NOT to get involved. I couldn't stand by and watch anyone being hit on the aircraft. However if you are a young, slim, female crew member, it would be very frightening and you have your own safety to consider. You can't always rely on other passengers to help you out, either, in situations like this.
Violent behavior is violent behavior, whether it's to wards a stranger or ones spouse and should not be tolerated!
Not being aware of company policy but is it not the CC's responsibility to notify the captain when a passenger is exhibiting potentially threatening behavior, let alone already assaulting another passenger?
Not being aware of company policy but is it not the CC's responsibility to notify the captain when a passenger is exhibiting potentially threatening behavior, let alone already assaulting another passenger?
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When a woman is repeatedly assaulted on a plane it isn't just the responsibility of the cabin crew to intervene it's the responsibility of any decent minded person.
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Drunk On Aircraft
If this was a UK AOC operated aircraft, it is an offence against the ANO to be drunk on the aircraft. If the drunk had threatened or disrupted the cabin crew, that also is an offence against the ANO.
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Far from disturbing the crew, apart from during the altercations, he was charm itself the the CC on our side of the cabin, complementing her on her looks, her deportment, and the impeccable ervice she had given. Indeed, he took the time out to fill in a feedback form about the CC member.
I would suggest it was all part of the psychological attack on his partner, praising another woman whilst verbally abusing his partner.
I would suggest it was all part of the psychological attack on his partner, praising another woman whilst verbally abusing his partner.
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Hear, hear SXB. 
Society is full of gutless cowards today, who sit back and expect somebody else to deal with all the problems which they kindly drop in someone else's lap and then bravely run away to watch from a safe distance.
Makes me sick.
Society is full of gutless cowards today, who sit back and expect somebody else to deal with all the problems which they kindly drop in someone else's lap and then bravely run away to watch from a safe distance.
Makes me sick.
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Maude Charlee
I agree with what you say 100%, but an aircraft is not a democracy (the company delegates authority to the captain, who delegates it to his/her crew) and surely Tezzer did the right thing in going to the chain of command, otherwise he could have become involved in the fracas and been considered a guilty party?
Had I been him, I would have been prepared to support the CC in restraining the pax, but taking the law into one's own hands is risky under UK jurisdiction.
I agree with what you say 100%, but an aircraft is not a democracy (the company delegates authority to the captain, who delegates it to his/her crew) and surely Tezzer did the right thing in going to the chain of command, otherwise he could have become involved in the fracas and been considered a guilty party?
Had I been him, I would have been prepared to support the CC in restraining the pax, but taking the law into one's own hands is risky under UK jurisdiction.
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Maudee Charlee
So are you suggesting that I intervene, on an aircraft and get involved in a potentially physical assault with another pasenger ?
That WOULD increase the chances of us BOTH being restrained, and being offloaded to the police in either our final destination, or worse still at a divert, with the associated risks ?
Oh, get real. It is NOT my responsibility. I acted, in a responsible and prudent manner, advising the aircraft's crew, who hold the authority to act in such cases.
I am mere SLF, and have NO interest in becoming involved, unless I am asked to support the crew, in their lawful duties. Under those circumstances, I would have been happy to stick one one this bully, and help to have him restrained.
That WOULD increase the chances of us BOTH being restrained, and being offloaded to the police in either our final destination, or worse still at a divert, with the associated risks ?
Oh, get real. It is NOT my responsibility. I acted, in a responsible and prudent manner, advising the aircraft's crew, who hold the authority to act in such cases.
I am mere SLF, and have NO interest in becoming involved, unless I am asked to support the crew, in their lawful duties. Under those circumstances, I would have been happy to stick one one this bully, and help to have him restrained.
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When a woman is repeatedly assaulted on a plane it isn't just the responsibility of the cabin crew to intervene it's the responsibility of any decent minded person.
Society is full of gutless cowards today, who sit back and expect somebody else to deal with all the problems which they kindly drop in someone else's lap and then bravely run away to watch from a safe distance.
That's a very honourable standpoint (although with the potential to turn out rather misguided). I think the cabin crew should have been much tougher (bearing in mind that I wasn't there and only know what tezzer has told us) in this case...not so much because the safety of other passengers was at risk but because it would make people like this think twice next time before becoming violent.
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What action did the CC take ? None other than to continue to supply him with vast quantities of Booze, exacerbating the situation.
So, the quesstion is, what should they / could they have done to end this truly awful display of abuse ?
So, the quesstion is, what should they / could they have done to end this truly awful display of abuse ?
You seem happy enough to berate the CC for not taking action in a situation which you describe as a violent and repeated physical assault, and therefore a serious criminal offence. Or is this all an exaggeration on your part?
It doesn't matter to me if the alleged assault took place at 39000ft or in the street in front of my house. I would intervene, and I would use reasonable force to restrain the offender as I am perfectly entitled to do so should that become necessary. If the crew refused to act as you claim, I would inform them of my intentions and see what transpires.
If the world was full of folk like you, the likes of Richard Reid would never have been stopped. Just what would it take for you to intervene? A murder?
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If the world was full of folk like you, the likes of Richard Reid would never have been stopped. Just what would it take for you to intervene? A murder?
If you can convince other passengers to help you or are travelling with friends who you know you can count on...then I'd go for it!