Things I always wanted to know as a PILOT
Dan 1-11s had rear facing seats at the overwing escapes so I'm told. beloved was cabin staff trainer for Dan, she has vivid memory of the slot in lap trays always collapsing !
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(4) Airline Safety
Even with access to meaningful statistics (which I agree 99% of pax don't have and don't want) it would be very difficult to make a sensible choice of airline based on safety issues. For example, if I want to fly LHR-JFK, I can choose between four major carriers all with excellent safety records - safety isn't going to be a consideration in my choice. Even if there was an airline operating from STN that could somehow guarantee my safe arrival (as opposed to the let us say 1 in 10^8 chance of a fatality flying from LHR), it would actually be more dangerous for me to use it because I would have to traverse an extra 80 miles of the M25 in order to do so. Very similar arguments apply if I want to fly LHR-DUS or anywhere within Europe.
Now consider flights where safety might be a greater concern - I would like to fly from London to Jakarta. I can fly direct with Garuda or via FRA with LH. I've no wish to slight Garuda, but their safety record is probably worse than Lufthansa. However, apart from the inconvenience and time lost in an intermediate stop, the indirect route involves twice as many takeoffs and landings (you can see I wasn't a trained actuary for nothing, can't you
). Since these are the most dangerous (relatively speaking) part of any flight, it may well be that the Garuda option is the safer.
Phew - hope that helps, Slasher
Now consider flights where safety might be a greater concern - I would like to fly from London to Jakarta. I can fly direct with Garuda or via FRA with LH. I've no wish to slight Garuda, but their safety record is probably worse than Lufthansa. However, apart from the inconvenience and time lost in an intermediate stop, the indirect route involves twice as many takeoffs and landings (you can see I wasn't a trained actuary for nothing, can't you
). Since these are the most dangerous (relatively speaking) part of any flight, it may well be that the Garuda option is the safer.Phew - hope that helps, Slasher
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Pax Vobiscum
LHR to Jakarta, you could also fly SIA to Singapore and on to Jakarta and the same for the return. One extra stop but an easy one at Changi.
Re rear facing seats. The RAF transport fleet was always fitted out with this configuration, allegedly on safety grounds. Is this still the case? The theory was that in an impact you would be cushioned by the seat rather than slamming into the one in front.
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Re rear facing seats. The RAF transport fleet was always fitted out with this configuration, allegedly on safety grounds. Is this still the case? The theory was that in an impact you would be cushioned by the seat rather than slamming into the one in front.
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Prior to starting pilot training (some time in the dim and distant past), I clocked up a few squillion hours as SLF. I was one of the guilty ones who plonk posterior in seat and get on with reading the Times.
Then one day I was joined by a senior widebody (dont remember the type) P1 who was deadheading. He was a fountain of knowledge and very amiable, but his take on the safety brief was best:
"you may know the safety brief, and so may I, but just think how disheartening it must be for the cabin crew to stand there and see people's heads and not a single pair of eyes".
Good point! I now always pay attention out of courtesy to the cabin crew.
Then one day I was joined by a senior widebody (dont remember the type) P1 who was deadheading. He was a fountain of knowledge and very amiable, but his take on the safety brief was best:
"you may know the safety brief, and so may I, but just think how disheartening it must be for the cabin crew to stand there and see people's heads and not a single pair of eyes".
Good point! I now always pay attention out of courtesy to the cabin crew.
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1. SLFs sometimes wont lock an aircraft toilet door yet theyll unfailingley lock it in a public dunny. Why?
Pass - I always lock the door.
2. Most pax cant be bothered watching the Pre-TO Emergencey brief while the intellegent few do. This usualy determines who most likely will be still alive after the evac and wholl be dead. Is it a macho thing to ignore the brief or somethin?
I listen and watch, even if I have seen it on the same airline and aircraft 1000 times before.
3. Why do SLFs complain about the legroom and pitch of cattle-class seats? Your stuffed in seats like sardines in return for a lower fare and Economy class is named because its exactley that - ECONOMY!
I don't, being 16 I don't exactly need much legroom
4. Why do pax insist on flying with carriers who have dangerus safety records? Do cheap airfares override survival instincts? Would you do the same and ride with a dangerus bus or taxi company?
Like whom?
5. Why the rush to disembark? You could be standing in the isle for 20mins if the Manifest isnt accurate or the Traffic guy is an inexperienced snot-nosed kid.
I've no idea, pass.. I always sit down until the mad rush has finished.
6. Is an aircraft toilet realy more complicated to use than a reguler dunny? The flush button is in the same spot like any other thunderbox, and the tap/sink doesnt require a PhD to figure out.
I always flush the toilet.
7. If you slop up your dunny at home you clean it up. So why do you expect the stewardesses to clean YOUR ungodley mess up?
I don't make a mess so I'm fine there. If I did, i'd clean it.
8. Do some of you think pilots fly through severe turbulence because we WANT to?
No.. I never complain about it, it's something that cannot be avoided and I understand that.
9. Why do you believe a smooth greazey touchdown on landing is somehow the measure of a pilots total skill?
I don't.. Everyone likes a smooth touchdown, but smooth or not doesn't tell you anything of the pilots overall skill.. They got you to your destination safely, so that must prove they have a skill that most people don't!
10. If you depart early you arrive early at your destination. Why is there ALWAYS the bloodey annoying 1% who insist on boarding at the last minute after everyone else has been on-board for the last 20?
You tell us??
Pass - I always lock the door.
2. Most pax cant be bothered watching the Pre-TO Emergencey brief while the intellegent few do. This usualy determines who most likely will be still alive after the evac and wholl be dead. Is it a macho thing to ignore the brief or somethin?
I listen and watch, even if I have seen it on the same airline and aircraft 1000 times before.
3. Why do SLFs complain about the legroom and pitch of cattle-class seats? Your stuffed in seats like sardines in return for a lower fare and Economy class is named because its exactley that - ECONOMY!
I don't, being 16 I don't exactly need much legroom
4. Why do pax insist on flying with carriers who have dangerus safety records? Do cheap airfares override survival instincts? Would you do the same and ride with a dangerus bus or taxi company?
Like whom?
5. Why the rush to disembark? You could be standing in the isle for 20mins if the Manifest isnt accurate or the Traffic guy is an inexperienced snot-nosed kid.
I've no idea, pass.. I always sit down until the mad rush has finished.
6. Is an aircraft toilet realy more complicated to use than a reguler dunny? The flush button is in the same spot like any other thunderbox, and the tap/sink doesnt require a PhD to figure out.
I always flush the toilet.
7. If you slop up your dunny at home you clean it up. So why do you expect the stewardesses to clean YOUR ungodley mess up?
I don't make a mess so I'm fine there. If I did, i'd clean it.
8. Do some of you think pilots fly through severe turbulence because we WANT to?
No.. I never complain about it, it's something that cannot be avoided and I understand that.
9. Why do you believe a smooth greazey touchdown on landing is somehow the measure of a pilots total skill?
I don't.. Everyone likes a smooth touchdown, but smooth or not doesn't tell you anything of the pilots overall skill.. They got you to your destination safely, so that must prove they have a skill that most people don't!
10. If you depart early you arrive early at your destination. Why is there ALWAYS the bloodey annoying 1% who insist on boarding at the last minute after everyone else has been on-board for the last 20?
You tell us??
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6. Is an aircraft toilet realy more complicated to use than a reguler dunny? The flush button is in the same spot like any other thunderbox, and the tap/sink doesnt require a PhD to figure out.
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Pilot questions
Hey pilots
Do large jets have a key/chip to the door and are they locked up when not in use?
Also do they have a key/chip to start it going?
Pretty detailed questions hey!!
Just wondered, not thinking of nicking one in case you wondered.
Skintman
Do large jets have a key/chip to the door and are they locked up when not in use?
Also do they have a key/chip to start it going?
Pretty detailed questions hey!!
Just wondered, not thinking of nicking one in case you wondered.
Skintman
Paxing All Over The World
Non-pilot speaking
Many of them have a key-code on a pad to enter. On many flights, if you are in rows 1 or 2 and seats C or D, you can clearly see what the number is as the CC and FC enter the code. Whether the pads could have been better placed, or staff have not been told to shield their hands, who knows. Of course, if you are carrying something, then shielding the pad is more difficult. There are pads available where the buttons face up, rather than out.
Many of them have a key-code on a pad to enter. On many flights, if you are in rows 1 or 2 and seats C or D, you can clearly see what the number is as the CC and FC enter the code. Whether the pads could have been better placed, or staff have not been told to shield their hands, who knows. Of course, if you are carrying something, then shielding the pad is more difficult. There are pads available where the buttons face up, rather than out.
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2. Because they think the safety brief makes no difference. On a BA flight once, the captain explained why people should listen to it. Guess what? Everyone listened. Try it. You are respected. The cabin crew are not.
5. Ever seen what happens when a train pulls into a station? 50 people crowd around one door and then block everyone trying to get off. At least there's ground crew to stop that happening at airports!
8. Nope, but those flights with terrible turbulence and not a word from the flight deck to reassure pax certainly don't help dispel the myth.
9. Because most pax do not hold an ATPL and have never had it explained that a hard landing does not mean a bad landing. Again, explain what you did while taxiing to the gate and you'll pass on the knowledge!
5. Ever seen what happens when a train pulls into a station? 50 people crowd around one door and then block everyone trying to get off. At least there's ground crew to stop that happening at airports!
8. Nope, but those flights with terrible turbulence and not a word from the flight deck to reassure pax certainly don't help dispel the myth.
9. Because most pax do not hold an ATPL and have never had it explained that a hard landing does not mean a bad landing. Again, explain what you did while taxiing to the gate and you'll pass on the knowledge!
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No more on this subject please...
Ref: Keypad
The procedure for Flight Deck access is actually rather more complicated than PAXboy has covered above: I don't propose discussing it, and won't allow anybody else to do so either.
Sorry Skintman - your question is straying too close to matters best not discussed on PPRuNe.
The procedure for Flight Deck access is actually rather more complicated than PAXboy has covered above: I don't propose discussing it, and won't allow anybody else to do so either.
Sorry Skintman - your question is straying too close to matters best not discussed on PPRuNe.
I reckon pilot "Slasher"has a sense of humour and is one of those pilots who wait until the meal is served and then finds the nearest bit of turbulence!Flying in DC-4s and DC -6s there wasnt a great deal pilots could do to avaoid turbulence!Of course then Captains could wander through the cabin and chat to passengers and were nice refined chaps.If they could do it today Slasher would you be polite or tell them of for leaving the "dunny"dirty!!
Security through obscurity
TightSlot, it's natural to want to keep trade secrets secret. However in many cases it's actually much better to open up security protocols to scrutiny. Not doing so is what we computer types call "security through obscurity" and it's been shown again and again to simply not work. Secret protocols are okay as long as they are truly secret. Which is pretty much impossible to achieve outside of the security services. (OK, let's amend that to "impossible to achieve full stop".) But even then the most secure encryption or security protocols are those where the whole methodology has been published for public scrutiny,
And, err, what do you think *you* know that Osama and friends wouldn't be
able to find out PDQ?
And, err, what do you think *you* know that Osama and friends wouldn't be
able to find out PDQ?
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25F - Although interesting in a theoretical sense, I shall continue to ignore the points raised in a practical sense. I'm sure people can find out the information for themselves from somewhere, but that somewhere won't be PPRuNe.
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Hi Tightslot
Understood, but I wasn't really asking if they use a key/keypad to get into the cockpit (I can understand the security implications here), but to get into the plane itself, ie the entrance door to the plane. Just wondered.
Thanks
Skintman
Understood, but I wasn't really asking if they use a key/keypad to get into the cockpit (I can understand the security implications here), but to get into the plane itself, ie the entrance door to the plane. Just wondered.
Thanks
Skintman
Only half a speed-brake
Skintman Quite like you I do understand TS's position and in my practice excercise accordingly. This is my view that attempts to avoid the twilight of security protocols and answer your Q:
Entrance doors on large passanger aircraft do not have any locks. Just a handle to open. As far as security evaluation goes, the reasoning is that once you are allowed airside, and know how to operate an aircraft, you can do harm. Fitting a lock will not stop you and so there is no need to install one.
RE: cockpit door (not a part of your question). In the post 9/11 era, aircraft are equipped with intrusion proof flightdeck doors that are locked. The procedure to open it is not based on a hardware item as this woud be easily obtainable by a would-be criminal. The procedures are far more advanced, airline specific, and must not be discussed on an open forum like this one.
Apart fromsome small aircraft, there is no "key" to start, car-wise. Just a number of pushbuttons, levers, switches, and selectors. The logic suggested above applies.
Yours,
FD (the un-real)
Entrance doors on large passanger aircraft do not have any locks. Just a handle to open. As far as security evaluation goes, the reasoning is that once you are allowed airside, and know how to operate an aircraft, you can do harm. Fitting a lock will not stop you and so there is no need to install one.
RE: cockpit door (not a part of your question). In the post 9/11 era, aircraft are equipped with intrusion proof flightdeck doors that are locked. The procedure to open it is not based on a hardware item as this woud be easily obtainable by a would-be criminal. The procedures are far more advanced, airline specific, and must not be discussed on an open forum like this one.
Apart fromsome small aircraft, there is no "key" to start, car-wise. Just a number of pushbuttons, levers, switches, and selectors. The logic suggested above applies.
Yours,
FD (the un-real)
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Another thing. Arriving at the gate 15 minutes late only having to further delay departure because there are still people showing up at the last minute, usually with two duty free bags plus the odd coffee/big mac in their hands is usually quite annoying. I has always amazed me that in the case of a delayed inbound aircraft, still the odd passenger on the next flight almost manages (and often does manage) to miss it, even though you would expect them to be standing ready to board at once by that time...
Re watching the safety demo, I'll only look up if I feel the attendant welcomes it and isn't embarrassed about being oggled by lots of people with no interest at all in what he/she's actually doing. And when they have to blow into the whistle I find it very hard to maintain eye contact ...
