Annoyed with other pax attitudes... Nimes to Luton & back again

[FirmamentFX]

Hi guys,

Before I start my rant, I want to make it clear that I think I was just very unlucky on the 2 recent flights I took to be with some pax from hell... I also think that the Brits who visit the Nimes/Uzes area contain a higher percentage of arrogant to**ers than perhaps other areas...

Anyway, I was on Ryanair flights Nimes (LFTW) to Luton (EGGW) on Tuesday, and returning by the same route earlier today (despite being a Brit, I now live near Nimes)

Why do some passengers believe that the rules do not apply to them? This regards the size of hand luggage, baggage weight, not having the correct paperwork, getting up before the seat belt sign has been switched off etc etc.

I'm sorry, but I do NOT believe that you "always travel with this as hand luggage and it's not a problem" when you are trying to persuade the check in clerk to allow you to take a full size suitcase on board... I do not necessarily think that RYR's policy of charging high costs for checking in baggage is a good one, but them is the rules folks... That's how it is...

Also, people's attitudes towards cabin staff - just because they are mostly Eastern European and - yes - for some the English language has not yet been fully mastered, does not give you the right to treat them as 2nd class citizens

Finally, and this is in my mind the most disgusting, today's flight from Luton was packed, and among the last to board was a family with a downs child - no more than about 3. As it was packed there was no way they could all sit together, so dad went off to the back of the plane, and mum and child found a row near the front with 1 empty seat each side.

Despite asking VERY politely if it would be possible for the woman on the aisle to move to the other side - just for takeoff and landing - this woman was a complete ar*e and would NOT move. It eventually took most of the cabin crew to get her to move, and she did it with such bad grace, and made a comment under her breath about the child which I will not repeat here.

I just hate that passengers these days do not have any common courtesy or decency, and also that everyone seems to believe they are a "special case" and rules designed to make it pretty easy and fair for passengers should not therefore apply to them.

I don't agree with many of Ryanair's policies on charging or seating (especially now charging for Priority Boarding), but that's the way it is... If you don't like it get the TGV.

Cabin staff - I salute you for doing what in so many ways must be a thankless task, in which whatever you do is perceived to be wrong by somebody.

Ok rant over,

Martin

[Bangkokeasy]

Your experience sounds pretty typical of the average loco flight and is an inevitable result of the combination of people who have never really been able to afford to fly before, and the idea that you can get something for nothing. Anyone who has taken a loco flight as SLF will have a similar horror story to tell.

I think there is an urgent need to address the problem of ill-informed and unruly passengers under these circumstances. Personally, I am in favour of issuing CC with electric cattle prods.

I have to say that this isn't usually a problem out here in the Orient, although I have come close in India and China. At least one loco carrier, Air Asia, intends to launch loco flights between this part of Asia and Europe, which is a prospect I dread. At the moment, UK citizens are regarded with some measure of respect out here, which is in large part due to our polite and understated demeanour, compared to some other nationalities. With isolated exceptions, the more undesirable rabble doesn't make it out here. One reason why the UK is still regarded as a desirable place for Asians to aspire to live, is their experience of UK people. They often don't realise that what they encounter out here is a rather unrepresentative elite, only to receive a rude wake up call, when they get the the UK and meet the other half.

[smala01]

"pretty typical of the average loco flight and is an inevitable result of the combination of people who have never really been able to afford to fly before, and the idea that you can get something for nothing."

I must say that in my experience it is those who have the money but choose to fly loco that are generally the "arrogant to**ers"

[Avman]

I agree that the woman could have shown more compassion. Nevertheless, the real blame lies with RYR and their contemptible treatment of pax with special requirements - all in the name of quick turnarounds. The advent of low cost air travel now allows the lowest examples of the human race to fly. RYR don't help the situation by treating their pax like cattle (e.g. the great rush for a seat) which in itself can cause irritation and confrontation among the pax. Yes, of course it is possible (as many will testify) to have a great trouble-free flight with RYR, but equally it is also more likely that if you will have a bad experience it will be with RYR too! I recently flew on Canada's loco, WESTJET. Preboard for pax with kids and pax needing assistance, seat allocation, seat pockets, basic but free in-flight service (with a smile), no hidden costs. And they achieve short turnaround times too.

[Final 3 Greens]

There is another point though.

Let's be clear that I am not talking about this particular incident.

if you have paid for priority seating and then are asked to move from the seats that you chose when using the service, you are, in effect, being asked to give up the privilege you paid for.

So how would you feel about someone in a restaurant asking if you mind awfully if they have some of your chips, cos they're hungry?

The whole system is detestable in my opinion and is likely to generate conflict.

[FirmamentFX]

If you have paid for priority seating and then are asked to move from the seats that you chose when using the service, you are, in effect, being asked to give up the privilege you paid for.

Agreed; somewhat unwillingly, but agreed nonetheless

Personally, I would give up any seat for someone with genuine special needs - if I was asked by a perfectly healthy person then I would get annoyed.

All that was asked was that she move from the left hand aisle seat to the right hand one... She was still just as close to the front

However:

The advent of low cost air travel now allows the lowest examples of the human race to fly. RYR don't help the situation by treating their pax like cattle

Also agreed.

I was under the impression that even though this "priority" system has been implemented (which is even worse than the "1-61", "62+" system of the past), special needs and families with children could board first... Is this no longer the case?

The whole system is detestable in my opinion and is likely to generate conflict.

Absolutely!

However, company policy is still not the fault of the cabin staff. I notice none of the passengers ever bawl out the captain or FO at the end of a flight for being late or ATC delays - it's always the cabin crew. I know they are the "visible front" of the company, but they are not personally responsible...

Cheers!

Martin

[Dan Air 87]

I quite agree here; I have given up using Ryanair after similar treatment on my trips to France. But as someone says you pays your money and takes your chance.

I prefer to cough up a bit more and go with Air France who's cabin crew are much more civilised and its a proper airline service. Ranty over.

[SXB]

Nevertheless, the real blame lies with RYR and their contemptible treatment of pax with special requirements

Agree 100% Avman

Also I agree with F3G's comments regarding RYR's boarding policy and lack of pre-assigned seats.

I will not fly with RYR because I will not be treated in a sub human manner nor will I accept consistently low levels of customer service, many of us here can afford to pay extra and travel with a real airline, others cannot or just choose not to. Either way if you book a trip with RYR you have a fair idea of what you will get, or what you won't get.

Most airlines deal with passengers with special needs in a sympathetic manner , I think RYR are the exception.

As for the inference that RYR have a higher percentage of 'pond scum' travelling on their aircraft than other airlines I'm not sure. Pond scum rear their ugly heads everywhere. I was in the business class cabin of a LH flight from Tbilisi to Munich last week and witnessed some of the worst, drunken, abuse towards a flight attendent I've ever seen on an aircraft. The individuals in question, who I"m assuming were Russian simply because they spoke Russian and because of their comments, were refused alcohol because they were drunk (this was a 03.55 departure) I won't go into details but if the attendent in question had spoken Russian I'm sure they'd have been met by the police on arrival in Munich.

Pond scum are everywhere and RYR don't have a monopoly.

[FirmamentFX]

Living close to Nimes I do not have much choice of carrier... The other option would be to do Gatwick to Marseille (Gatwick is not very close and Marseille is almost 2 hours away from home this end) with EasyJet or go into Nice with a choice of carrier - 3 hours drive is a lot though...

I have never personally had a problem with RYR cabin staff, but have heard many many stories from those that have!

One "cheap" carrier that I have been consistently impressed with is Aer Lingus - I travelled a lot with them in 2005 between Dublin and France and found them to be polite, efficient, and above all, comfortable.

Remember though that the airports also have a lot to do with comfort.... Luton and Stansted are not as comfortable as Heathrow - in fact I was pleasantly shocked when I went through Heathrow a few months ago, having travelled mainly from "smaller" UK airports for the past 3 years.

I do know what to expect when I travel with Ryanair, and I accept it. Tuesday and Wednesday's flights though were far worse than usual, and in this case it was not (directly) RYRs fault... Although to be sure they did not help the situation.

Cheers!

Martin

[slim_slag]

I have no criminal record, pay me taxes on time, never claimed off the state, and drink less than 20 units a week (or that's what I make sure is on my medical record).

I fly Ryanair a lot and think they are brilliant. Does that also make me 'pond scum' who deserves to be greeted at the door with a cattle prod?

What is it about these Ryanair threads?

[Final 3 Greens]

I fly Ryanair a lot and think they are brilliant. Does that also make me 'pond scum' who deserves to be greeted at the door with a cattle prod?


SXB's point is precisely that 'pond scum' are not exclusive to RYR or any carrier and I agree with him.

I occasionally use RYR from Malta to Luton, as I have a client in Luton and it is convenient and generally the other pax are pleasant individuals, who behave impeccably.

However, the system the airline operates does not promote the better side of human nature!

As to the capabilities of RYR CC (in line with the first post), although as some say they can lack English skills beyond the basic level required to do the job, there was a medical emergency the last time I travelled with them and the crew reaction was swift and effective.

I was impressed and told the No1 so after things had calmed down. He was only in his mid twenties and the other 2 crew involved were even younger, but they did work very well as a team.

They were in the rear galley afterwards and looked quite stressed, which is understandable, but the point is when called upon, they delivered.

As I was speaking, the two young women (who sounded Czech when they spoke) broke into smiles and I realised that they really are very young people doing a demanding and tough job in the loco context - no wonder they often look stern.

[FHA]

Back to post #1: the woman who wouldn't help the family with the special needs child? Honestly, someone should've helped the b#stard descend the steps a bit quicker. That's just appalling.

[Final 3 Greens]

Back to post #1: the woman who wouldn't help the family with the special needs child? Honestly, someone should've helped the b#stard descend the steps a bit quicker. That's just appalling.

You're missing the point FHA, special needs pax are preloaded and looked after on other airlines.

And the woman may have paid for the privilege of selecting that seat - perhaps she is claustrophobic or has some other reason she needed to sit there.

Without knowing the facts, you are judging prematurely, for example I could conclude from your expressed view that you are an intellectual lightweight, incapable of expressing yourself with resort to bad language, who doesn't think things through and exhorts violence as a solution.

I doubt that that is fair comment and neither is your post.

[slim_slag]

F3G,

SXB post is completely irrelevent to an airline thread and is more appropriate in Jet Blast where they moan about how society is falling apart and let's bring back the birch.

You cannot blame an airline because people get drunk and turn obnoxious. It happens everywhere. An airline is not responsible for the ills of society. In fact, looking at the way airlines treat people in 'cattle' class, it is surprising that people don't get upset even more than they do. No, they just get on with it.

Perhaps we should be congratulating Ryanair for making people pay for booze thus making it far more likely that disruptive behaviour will occur. It is a coincidence that SXB dropped in to the conversation he was in business class, where booze is free, as it would be in the lounge?

Whenever Ryanair gets mentioned the 'social elitism' is not far behind. I find it strange that the most dismissive people are the ones that rarely fly the carrier. I have a theory on that, maybe some other time.

[Final 3 Greens]

Slim

Strangely enough, I read SXB's post in a different way to you.

1 - he doesn't like their service offering and doesn't use them as a consequence

2 - he states that all airlines have problem pax, not just RYR and illustrates it with an example from LH business class

That seems to me to be fair comment, I agree that pond life are found on all airlines and don't see a correlation (positive or negative) with any particular airline

[slim_slag]

F3G,

I didn't say it wasn't a fair comment. I said it was more suitable for Jet Blast.

If you open up airline travel to 'the masses', then 'the masses' are going to fly. Simple as that.

[A2QFI]

Ryanair

I have flown as a passenger for many years and with RYR a lot recently as they are all I can afford. They are the only airline I have ever travelled with where a passenger has been invited to get his/her nose out of their paper and pay attention to the safety brief. I know the briefing off by heart but I still have the courtesy to pay full attention to what I am being told. I note that some RYR aircraft now have the life jackets up in the overhead panels with the O2 masks and not under the seats any more - worth knowing! To keep on thread I should say that drunk and/or obnoxious pax can be found on any airline. Maybe more on RYR as they carry so many pax!

[Final 3 Greens]

If you open up airline travel to 'the masses', then 'the masses' are going to fly. Simple as that.

That's a very good point and I agree with it.

[Final 3 Greens]

Perhaps we should be congratulating Ryanair for making people pay for booze thus making it far more likely that disruptive behaviour will occur.

Are you saying that pax behave badly because they have to pay for booze?

That's a new social science theory - maybe we can find a precedent going back to Marie Antoinette and bread

[slim_slag]

Ooo 'eck, bit of a typo there, lol.

One obviously mean't it the other way round