What are my RIGHTS going through security?
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Europe
Age: 56
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Given up anyway
I recently had the miss fortune to take a few flights around Europe for business and holiday after not having flown for a while.
Security is a joke and purely an inconvenience to pax. I figure it is now more hassle to fly than to drive or take the train within western Europe and will be doing so in future. Long haul I don't have a lot of choice but short haul, forget it.
I was due to fly to Spain for a week off in 2 weeks but after the recent experience bugger that. I cancelled the flights and we decided to drive down through Germany to Austria instead. Who would fly these days if you had another choice, not me any more I can tell you.
Including travel to and from the airport for a one hour flight it is now taking about 5 to six hours each way – that’s half a working day just traveling and its incredibly stressful now! I suspect I’m not the only one discovering the joys of train travel again.
Idiots are biting the hand that feeds it all in the belief the paying customer will continue to just blindly hand over money and take the abuse. Well my company has now cancelled all business travel short haul because of the inordinate amount of time taken to get anywhere. Video conferencing all the way.
Security is a joke and purely an inconvenience to pax. I figure it is now more hassle to fly than to drive or take the train within western Europe and will be doing so in future. Long haul I don't have a lot of choice but short haul, forget it.
I was due to fly to Spain for a week off in 2 weeks but after the recent experience bugger that. I cancelled the flights and we decided to drive down through Germany to Austria instead. Who would fly these days if you had another choice, not me any more I can tell you.
Including travel to and from the airport for a one hour flight it is now taking about 5 to six hours each way – that’s half a working day just traveling and its incredibly stressful now! I suspect I’m not the only one discovering the joys of train travel again.
Idiots are biting the hand that feeds it all in the belief the paying customer will continue to just blindly hand over money and take the abuse. Well my company has now cancelled all business travel short haul because of the inordinate amount of time taken to get anywhere. Video conferencing all the way.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 800
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The whole security issues lately couldnt have been more publicised in the press and around the majority of airports. Yet pax and crew still try to play the system.
Its perfectly simple, read the signs, know the rules, listen to the check-in staff and it saves alot of hassle before people reach the security check point.
Therefore reducing the long searches....people trying to get things through when majority of the time, they wont.... less people being sent back to check bags in.
Basically Less A***ng about! Its not difficult to be prepared, and everyone benefits in the long run.
Its perfectly simple, read the signs, know the rules, listen to the check-in staff and it saves alot of hassle before people reach the security check point.
Therefore reducing the long searches....people trying to get things through when majority of the time, they wont.... less people being sent back to check bags in.
Basically Less A***ng about! Its not difficult to be prepared, and everyone benefits in the long run.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: london
Posts: 331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The difficulty is of course, that if everyone complied with this, then the queues may get smaller, but guess what..they'd then cut the numbers of security personnel, and the quesues would get bigger again. It's about maximising profit, not providing a good service.
When passing through security, I simply refuse to be barked at by some moron wearing a yellow vest. I ignore these goons when they are shouting.
The last time I went through Gatwick, security was a friggin joke, with queues outside the building, and lots of nobs strutting about shouting to people telling them where to stand etc..
Do not let these people harras you into thinking you must move quickly or get stressed, just take your time, and stay really unstressed by the whole experience. If other people or staff get stressed, then that's their problem.
If there are delays it is down to incompetent management, not the travelling public. Never forget, you pay for the security checks in your ticket, and deserve to be treated with respect.
When passing through security, I simply refuse to be barked at by some moron wearing a yellow vest. I ignore these goons when they are shouting.
The last time I went through Gatwick, security was a friggin joke, with queues outside the building, and lots of nobs strutting about shouting to people telling them where to stand etc..
Do not let these people harras you into thinking you must move quickly or get stressed, just take your time, and stay really unstressed by the whole experience. If other people or staff get stressed, then that's their problem.
If there are delays it is down to incompetent management, not the travelling public. Never forget, you pay for the security checks in your ticket, and deserve to be treated with respect.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Suppose a pax gets part way thru the inspection and then says" The heck with all this, I'm leaving". My guess is he'd be stopped and given a very thourough search. Anybody know?
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: London UK & Uzes France
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Take your jacket off before you get to the head of the line, have your laptop out of your bag and ready to put in a tray and get through security as fast as you can so that the rest of us lining up behind you don't have to wait for hours. Having spent far too much of my life standing in security lines I'm convinced that at least fifty percent of the hold ups are caused by pax who can't seem to understand a few simple rules to speed things up.
I liken this to people getting on a bus who get to the driver and *then* choose to get their purse/wallet out and search for exactly the right change. Or the same thing for supermarket queues (especially here in France, where it is also obligatoire to have a long chat with the checkout girl before paying...)
Cheers!
Martin
PS: Gouabafla, yeah CDG can be absolute hell....
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Devon
Age: 70
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just think it is pointless getting hugely stressed. I prepare as requested, greet people politley and cheerily, and get through with minimal problems. if you are stressed, write to your MP, guess what, it works, if an MP gets 10 letters, he knows there are a hundred concerned people, a 100 letters, on any subject, is enough to get them leaping around. try it, you may be surprised
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Morton-in-Marsh
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am afraid we are living in a Police State - in the broadest sense of the term. Our freedom has been almost terminally eroded for "safety" and "security" reasons. We just cannot argue, and expect to win, with anyone stopping us doing something on alleged "safety" or "security" grounds. You are likely to get locked up! We have a frightening culture at the moment.
You can't blame the people on the front line. Yes, maybe the security guys are unpleasant at times. Maybe they are underpaid and maybe they are totally hacked off by the pathetic passengers and their whingeing.
So we have a dicotomy.
The logical thing to do is express our serious concern about the present "Police State" culture in Britain (and other European countries, incidentally), to those in power. To MPs, to Police Chiefs, to Security Chiefs, Airline Chiefs, Airport Chiefs, etc. This takes a bit of effort but it can be done at home.
What we shouldn't be doing is giving the guys on the front line a hard time, as this will just make things worse for us all.
And may I suggest that any letters that are written to "important people" should be well written, polite and persuasive, with examples of issues being complained about. They will then get treated with respect.
You can't blame the people on the front line. Yes, maybe the security guys are unpleasant at times. Maybe they are underpaid and maybe they are totally hacked off by the pathetic passengers and their whingeing.
So we have a dicotomy.
The logical thing to do is express our serious concern about the present "Police State" culture in Britain (and other European countries, incidentally), to those in power. To MPs, to Police Chiefs, to Security Chiefs, Airline Chiefs, Airport Chiefs, etc. This takes a bit of effort but it can be done at home.
What we shouldn't be doing is giving the guys on the front line a hard time, as this will just make things worse for us all.
And may I suggest that any letters that are written to "important people" should be well written, polite and persuasive, with examples of issues being complained about. They will then get treated with respect.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: US
Posts: 604
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The logical thing to do is express our serious concern about the present "Police State" culture in Britain (and other European countries, incidentally), to those in power. To MPs, to Police Chiefs, to Security Chiefs, Airline Chiefs, Airport Chiefs, etc. This takes a bit of effort but it can be done at home.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Morton-in-Marsh
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OFBSLF - no argument with that, but your comment is not in the least relevant to the point being made: we do not have a TRUE Police State of course, but it is rapidly going that way. All I am saying is - to those people who live in Britain (you obviously don't) - make constructive complaints about many of the things, including the way people are treated at airports, to those responsible or allegedly in charge. And don't bother making life for the "workers" harder than ever, so that they get a jaundiced view about (in this case) passengers.
What we should not do is nothing. The dicotomy is that we don't want to be a nation of whingers.
What we should not do is nothing. The dicotomy is that we don't want to be a nation of whingers.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Bordeaux, France
Posts: 581
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mr Happy,
If you read my post, I said I will happily turn a laptop on if asked......and show the CD/DVD player works if required....
.....but those of you who have company info on their laptops should think before letting just anyone have access to their files. Its YOUR JOB on the line and I think there would be definite grounds for questioning the need for airport security to see data of a corporate or personal nature on your laptop.
As for the Police state comments from some, it is worrying that any questioning of "security" could mean instant detention. As several have said above, airport security has become the bain of many travellers lives now. OK, so I dont get much choice but to fly for work (except route - and the UK is now avoided at all cost), but for our family travel, it seems I am not the only one to have quit flying comercial around Europe as its such a pain in the arse - so we will be driving on our holidays this year too....
Its so sad - I used to enjoy all flying, no matter whether it was in an airliner or a microlight - now I hate airline flying, and its totally down to the airport experience we now have to suffer which just puts you in such a bad mood before you even step aboard the aeroplane.
At least I still have my PPL thank god, so I get to enjoy real flying when I have time off.
Regards, SD..
If you read my post, I said I will happily turn a laptop on if asked......and show the CD/DVD player works if required....
.....but those of you who have company info on their laptops should think before letting just anyone have access to their files. Its YOUR JOB on the line and I think there would be definite grounds for questioning the need for airport security to see data of a corporate or personal nature on your laptop.
As for the Police state comments from some, it is worrying that any questioning of "security" could mean instant detention. As several have said above, airport security has become the bain of many travellers lives now. OK, so I dont get much choice but to fly for work (except route - and the UK is now avoided at all cost), but for our family travel, it seems I am not the only one to have quit flying comercial around Europe as its such a pain in the arse - so we will be driving on our holidays this year too....
Its so sad - I used to enjoy all flying, no matter whether it was in an airliner or a microlight - now I hate airline flying, and its totally down to the airport experience we now have to suffer which just puts you in such a bad mood before you even step aboard the aeroplane.
At least I still have my PPL thank god, so I get to enjoy real flying when I have time off.
Regards, SD..
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 316
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There has been a lot of hot air talked by a lot of people.
ANYONE who deliberately goes out of their way to slow the security process down or make life even more difficult for the operatives really should take the bus/train or swim.
Have any of these moaners read the DfT site information?
Any pilots who are contributiong should take a good hard look in the mirror. These people are doing a job to protect them, their crew and their passengers.
The security staff don't do it for fun, they don't make the rules and in general I have found them more than courteous if you are civil and polite to them. Until recently I used to take about 100 departures a year out of various airports. If you think the UK is poor - try the US. The attitudes shown here would get you locked up for a few nights.
ANYONE who deliberately goes out of their way to slow the security process down or make life even more difficult for the operatives really should take the bus/train or swim.
Have any of these moaners read the DfT site information?
Any pilots who are contributiong should take a good hard look in the mirror. These people are doing a job to protect them, their crew and their passengers.
The security staff don't do it for fun, they don't make the rules and in general I have found them more than courteous if you are civil and polite to them. Until recently I used to take about 100 departures a year out of various airports. If you think the UK is poor - try the US. The attitudes shown here would get you locked up for a few nights.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Close to Wales
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Groundhand
Not entirely true. How do they protect me by ensuring that I have to remove my shoes and belt at security? As a pilot, in flight my hands coul be far more dangerous than my shoes! It is as much to do with empire building. If they were serious about security they wouldn't let 300 passengers per aeroplane buy and take on to flights glass bottles with 50% flammable alcohol. Glass=weapon, flammable= in flight fire. No duty free=cost to BAA. If they were that worried you would have to buy your duty free on arrival.
Any pilots who are contributiong should take a good hard look in the mirror. These people are doing a job to protect them, their crew and their passengers.
The security staff don't do it for fun, they don't make the rules and in general I have found them more than courteous if you are civil and polite to them. Until recently I used to take about 100 departures a year out of various airports. If you think the UK is poor - try the US. The attitudes shown here would get you locked up for a few nights
The security staff don't do it for fun, they don't make the rules and in general I have found them more than courteous if you are civil and polite to them. Until recently I used to take about 100 departures a year out of various airports. If you think the UK is poor - try the US. The attitudes shown here would get you locked up for a few nights
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 316
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Exvicar
You seem to be getting mixed up between the operatives at the airports who have to enforce policy, the airport companies who have to meet the country's legislation and the knuckle heads within Government and the DfT who make the rules and keep on adding to the levels without any proper review.
To claim that just because you are flightdeck you should, in some way, have special treatment is nonesense.
I have witnessed and had to deal with a First Officer who claimed, whilst going through security in front of passengers, that he had a bomb in his bag (I'm glad to say that he was dismissed and hopefully never flew again)- just because they wear a uniform and sit up front does not mean that they have a brain, are less susceptible to coersion or could not be a serious risk.
I totally agree that the type of checks and processes do not offer any guarantees, I also agree with you re glass (you can add pens, pencils - you can stab someone just as effectively weith a Cross propelling pencil as with a knife) and lots of the other of the small details of what is, and is not acceptable.
It all goes back to pre Lockerbie and then the knee jerk reaction from our Government following that horrendous act - however, had the flight been on time and the intended timing would have happened mid-Atlantic and I doubt very much if the UK reation would have been the same.
Just look at the farce with airside access passess. If you are crew you can access any UK airpoirt to operate a flight - how do the airports check this - they don't. If you work for a support company you can not get a similar type of access pass - you have to apply for each airport (BAA do have a common facility) and then keep each individual airport active by going airside once every 30 days.
I still maintain that responsible aviation employees should not be looking to make the life of security operatives more difficult than it needs to be to try to prove some pathetic point that is not within the operatives gift to change.
You seem to be getting mixed up between the operatives at the airports who have to enforce policy, the airport companies who have to meet the country's legislation and the knuckle heads within Government and the DfT who make the rules and keep on adding to the levels without any proper review.
To claim that just because you are flightdeck you should, in some way, have special treatment is nonesense.
I have witnessed and had to deal with a First Officer who claimed, whilst going through security in front of passengers, that he had a bomb in his bag (I'm glad to say that he was dismissed and hopefully never flew again)- just because they wear a uniform and sit up front does not mean that they have a brain, are less susceptible to coersion or could not be a serious risk.
I totally agree that the type of checks and processes do not offer any guarantees, I also agree with you re glass (you can add pens, pencils - you can stab someone just as effectively weith a Cross propelling pencil as with a knife) and lots of the other of the small details of what is, and is not acceptable.
It all goes back to pre Lockerbie and then the knee jerk reaction from our Government following that horrendous act - however, had the flight been on time and the intended timing would have happened mid-Atlantic and I doubt very much if the UK reation would have been the same.
Just look at the farce with airside access passess. If you are crew you can access any UK airpoirt to operate a flight - how do the airports check this - they don't. If you work for a support company you can not get a similar type of access pass - you have to apply for each airport (BAA do have a common facility) and then keep each individual airport active by going airside once every 30 days.
I still maintain that responsible aviation employees should not be looking to make the life of security operatives more difficult than it needs to be to try to prove some pathetic point that is not within the operatives gift to change.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: EGCC
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is justified objection to pax deliberately slowing down the security process. But how about the airport authorities doing the same?
Clearly, there is x-ray equipment around that can easily handle packed bags. So why do security at some airports pi$$ everybody off by insisting on unpacking laptops? This is clearly deliberate obstruction. If they are indeed so keen on getting people moving, they can at least oblige by installing state-of-the-art x-ray machines.
Clearly, there is x-ray equipment around that can easily handle packed bags. So why do security at some airports pi$$ everybody off by insisting on unpacking laptops? This is clearly deliberate obstruction. If they are indeed so keen on getting people moving, they can at least oblige by installing state-of-the-art x-ray machines.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 316
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Al Fakeham
Suggest you read the DfT site.
It's NOT the airports that want to do this, they have to do it to meet UK DfT requirements. It's exactly the same with the farce of 100ml fluids in clear plastic bags - what the heck can a security operative tell by looking through clear plastic when the bottle/container is not transparent?
On the other hand, effective passenger profiling is a fantastic way of assessing risk but the do-gooders get hot under the collar about civil liberties. Can't have it all ways I guess.
People should start winding up their local MP's as these are the knuckleheads who bring in all the specific requirements through the DfT.
Suggest you read the DfT site.
It's NOT the airports that want to do this, they have to do it to meet UK DfT requirements. It's exactly the same with the farce of 100ml fluids in clear plastic bags - what the heck can a security operative tell by looking through clear plastic when the bottle/container is not transparent?
On the other hand, effective passenger profiling is a fantastic way of assessing risk but the do-gooders get hot under the collar about civil liberties. Can't have it all ways I guess.
People should start winding up their local MP's as these are the knuckleheads who bring in all the specific requirements through the DfT.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: US
Posts: 604
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OFBSLF - no argument with that, but your comment is not in the least relevant to the point being made: we do not have a TRUE Police State of course, but it is rapidly going that way.
This type of over-the-top rhetoric hurts your efforts to convince others. You may believe that the UK is headed in the wrong direction, and you may well be right. But using that type of rhetoric will only convince folks like me that you are either 1) a few bottles short of a six-pack or 2) prone to deliberately making misleading statements.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Mainland Europe
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm choosing option 2 from:
This type of over-the-top rhetoric hurts your efforts to convince others. You may believe that the UK is headed in the wrong direction, and you may well be right. But using that type of rhetoric will only convince folks like me that you are either 1) a few bottles short of a six-pack or 2) prone to deliberately making misleading statements.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Close to Wales
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Groundhand
They don't just hand out airside passes. Seem to remember having a 2 month wait for disclosure Scotland and criminal record checks prior to being given my pass to enable me to do my job. Conviction or failure to pass the disclosure = no pass = no job. If the pass did not give access to other airports, it would be a little difficult to operate return flights and I would do every return sector on the train!
Do 100% of passengers have to remove their shoes? Only asking as I know this didn't used to be the case, which was rather galling when the aircraft drivers did.
They don't just hand out airside passes. Seem to remember having a 2 month wait for disclosure Scotland and criminal record checks prior to being given my pass to enable me to do my job. Conviction or failure to pass the disclosure = no pass = no job. If the pass did not give access to other airports, it would be a little difficult to operate return flights and I would do every return sector on the train!
Do 100% of passengers have to remove their shoes? Only asking as I know this didn't used to be the case, which was rather galling when the aircraft drivers did.