Reclining seats send airline tempers soaring
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Bluejay
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The simple lesson here is ask me if I mind and we can come to a mutual agreement (i.e half recline etc), don't ask me and I will make you as uncomfortable as me
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Agree with you 100%
At 6'4" I have more trouble than most (width is not a problem) in trying to be comfortable in seats on shorthaul. I think most large / tall people are usually aware of their size and take this into account in situations such as this. As a matter of course, I will always ask the person behind if they mind if I put my seat back and I have never had any problems.
But for the selfish and arrogant and those with no manners or consideration for others, (and there are some posters here who seems to fit this description, to be sure) who just jam their seat back onto my knees when there is absolutely zero inches between seat back and knees, then I have no intention of doing the splits just to accommodate them.
The simple lesson here is ask me if I mind and we can come to a mutual agreement (i.e half recline etc), don't ask me and I will make you as uncomfortable as me
Unquote
Agree with you 100%
At 6'4" I have more trouble than most (width is not a problem) in trying to be comfortable in seats on shorthaul. I think most large / tall people are usually aware of their size and take this into account in situations such as this. As a matter of course, I will always ask the person behind if they mind if I put my seat back and I have never had any problems.
But for the selfish and arrogant and those with no manners or consideration for others, (and there are some posters here who seems to fit this description, to be sure) who just jam their seat back onto my knees when there is absolutely zero inches between seat back and knees, then I have no intention of doing the splits just to accommodate them.
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Oh Dear,
Yvonne, You are not one of this new ladies of the Celtic Tiger who feel that they can talk down to all and sundry now are you?
Im afraid your logic is very much flawed....not everyone flies on a 757, not everyone has access to the internet within 24hours of their flight, not everyone despite doing all they can will get the exit row or bulkhead and at the end of the day...even if you are on the exit row...you too will have some poor cretin sitting behind you when you decide to recline...but its clear you couldnt care less. I would love to see an airline introduce a policy whereby the exit rows are kept only for those of 6ft or more however many would consider this discrimination without realising that putting a 6ft person into a normal seat just as discriminating!!!
I would actually state that the problem these days is not that the airlines have reduced the seat pitch so much as people are just becoming ruder and ruder to each other then they used to be, being Irish I notice it more and more in my country. But I wont preach here, not the right place for it!
Yvonne, You are not one of this new ladies of the Celtic Tiger who feel that they can talk down to all and sundry now are you?
Im afraid your logic is very much flawed....not everyone flies on a 757, not everyone has access to the internet within 24hours of their flight, not everyone despite doing all they can will get the exit row or bulkhead and at the end of the day...even if you are on the exit row...you too will have some poor cretin sitting behind you when you decide to recline...but its clear you couldnt care less. I would love to see an airline introduce a policy whereby the exit rows are kept only for those of 6ft or more however many would consider this discrimination without realising that putting a 6ft person into a normal seat just as discriminating!!!
I would actually state that the problem these days is not that the airlines have reduced the seat pitch so much as people are just becoming ruder and ruder to each other then they used to be, being Irish I notice it more and more in my country. But I wont preach here, not the right place for it!
Oh, and Yvonne dear,
A few may do but many don't. It seems that your vast wealth of experience and expertise is drawn exclusively from travel with Continental Airlines on their B757.
avman dont dear me get ur facts right exit seats are available online 24 hours before dpt on most airlines
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In general I have no problems with people reclining seats in front, and as long as they put them up for meals, it's no real problem. I have short legs, so have no problem with the leg room, but too many years supporting the UK brewing industry means it's not always possible to get the table down with the seat down in front.
The only time I've had a problem was when I was unlucky enough to be in the back row of a 737, where the seats didn't recline, and the tw@ts infront reclined theirs so I couldn't even hold a book in front of me. However, my wife going to the loo every 5 minutes and banging their seats got the point across (and it was only 3 hours of discomfort)
The only time I've had a problem was when I was unlucky enough to be in the back row of a 737, where the seats didn't recline, and the tw@ts infront reclined theirs so I couldn't even hold a book in front of me. However, my wife going to the loo every 5 minutes and banging their seats got the point across (and it was only 3 hours of discomfort)
grow up
i said touch the back of my seat again and i will put the assh..e outa u once we get through emmigration
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I think he was referring to the irony of your "grow up" comment!!!
I think if you reread my last posting you will appreciate the grown up approach I took to it and perhaps even learn a thing or two!
I look forward to what will no doubt be a delightfully colourful response!
P.S....Tightslots opinion is only one rule of thought albeit one I actually do agree with. However is that an excuse to rude to your fellow passenger? I think not!
I think if you reread my last posting you will appreciate the grown up approach I took to it and perhaps even learn a thing or two!
I look forward to what will no doubt be a delightfully colourful response!
P.S....Tightslots opinion is only one rule of thought albeit one I actually do agree with. However is that an excuse to rude to your fellow passenger? I think not!
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From the article linked in the first post - "Feeling outraged as that airline seat crashes back into your knees, taking sleep or that breakfast coffee with it? You're not alone."
Rubbish!
Any airliner I have flown on have seats that pivot off the same joint as the food tray. That means that the food tray does not move as it is not attached to the reclining part of the seat! It also means that leg room is not affected unless your knees are in such a position that they are higher than the pivoting joint.
True, having a seat reclined does bring the top of the seat closer to the passenger behind, and is not always a comfortable proposition for some passengers. However, basic courtesy and manners should be observed by all passengers. Wanna talk about bad manners? Kicking or punching another passengers seat back is exceptionally bad manners in my book. It is not a clever, amicable, or adult manner in which to deal with an issue.
Bear in mind, as already mentioned, that on some routes people specifically choose carriers with reclining seats, often paying higher prices for the privilege than might be available elsewhere. Personally, I find sleeping in upright seats very uncomfortable. Predominantly working evenings and nights and travelling days make sleep, and therefore reclining seats, important to me on aircraft. Passengers who find reclining seats limits their comfort would do well to think about choosing carriers without reclining seats if that option is available to them. If that option is not available to them, try asking politely.
Rubbish!
Any airliner I have flown on have seats that pivot off the same joint as the food tray. That means that the food tray does not move as it is not attached to the reclining part of the seat! It also means that leg room is not affected unless your knees are in such a position that they are higher than the pivoting joint.
True, having a seat reclined does bring the top of the seat closer to the passenger behind, and is not always a comfortable proposition for some passengers. However, basic courtesy and manners should be observed by all passengers. Wanna talk about bad manners? Kicking or punching another passengers seat back is exceptionally bad manners in my book. It is not a clever, amicable, or adult manner in which to deal with an issue.
Bear in mind, as already mentioned, that on some routes people specifically choose carriers with reclining seats, often paying higher prices for the privilege than might be available elsewhere. Personally, I find sleeping in upright seats very uncomfortable. Predominantly working evenings and nights and travelling days make sleep, and therefore reclining seats, important to me on aircraft. Passengers who find reclining seats limits their comfort would do well to think about choosing carriers without reclining seats if that option is available to them. If that option is not available to them, try asking politely.
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Any airliner I have flown on have seats that pivot off the same joint as the food tray. That means that the food tray does not move as it is not attached to the reclining part of the seat! It also means that leg room is not affected unless your knees are in such a position that they are higher than the pivoting joint.
However, I do recognise that others have the right to use their seats. I would say that the only solution is common courtesy. To everyone, before reclining your seat, look behind you to see if knees are present. If they are, either recline very slowly, or tell the person behind you plan to do so. They can, as can I, move into another position to allow you to do so.
I also think there's no need for short-haul recline at all, though, just as it isn't provided on most British trains, and that all airlines should copy Ryanair and EasyJet's newer planes by not providing it at all on flights of a couple of hours (let's say anything a normal two-class 737 or A319/320 would be used on).
Neil
Last edited by pacer142; 13th Feb 2007 at 12:21. Reason: spelling
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Good thread!
Loved the Cathay seat recline idea, all airlines should follow suit. Great way to calm easily frayed tempers. There's enough tension and irritations on flights (long-haul especially) so one less conflict is a welcome change.
However, I thought the knee-defender gadget, while clever, is just a sh1tfight waiting to happen.
There's nothing worse than a discourteous, self-centred passenger. While tall people may think it's not cricket to recline without the person in front first checking for knees behind them/warning passenger behind them in advance of the oncoming recline/coming to an amicable halfway-house arrangement with person behind, similarly, it is not cricket for tall people armed with a knee-defender to not discuss it with the person in front before they decide to use it.
As others have said, if a seat reclines, a passenger should have the option to use it. If a tall person removes that option by way of a knee-defender before showing the person in front the same courtesy of discussing it first, that makes him no better than the person in front who does not discuss things with the person behind before he reclines.
In reality, I hope the airlines see sense and ban these gadgets if they see them in use on their aircraft. They will only cause more problems.
I understand it's frustrating for tall (and short, pedantic) folk to be battered by seat-backs but using a knee-defender to increase one passenger's comfort will also serve to deny someone else of theirs, so this daft knee-defender will only ever be bought by similar, self-centred, discourteous, and above all hypocritical passengers trying to get their own back. The knee-defender will only serve to increase tensions between passengers.
The airlines (and their ever-decreasing seat pitching policies) will never admit blame for creating the short vs tall/can I recline or can't I recline arguments, but it really doesn't matter, especially if you are caught up in a situation like this yourself. You just want it to be resolved so you can 'enjoy' your flight. It just takes a bit of decency, consideration, calm attitude and a bit of give and take to resolve the situation. And if a compromise cannot be met, or your fellow passenger is being difficult or aggressive, call Cabin Crew, and let them mediate to help get the situation resolved.
I can't stand selfishness from airline passengers. Makes my blood boil. My MIL is the worst. On a flight from Perth-HongKong she embarrassed the hell out of my poor wife the entire trip. She committed the cardinal sin of reclining on the guy behind while he was still eating,
and she also managed to continually piss the guy off in front of her for good measure too. Whenever she (frequently) needed the loo, she grabbed the back of his headrest to haul her very-firmly wedged fat arse out of her seat, making him dip violently backwards every time. Poor chap must've had the patience of a saint because each time she did it she also grabbed and pulled his hair with her fingertips and he only ever quietly moaned about her to his wife! MIL was completely oblivious, my wife was absolutely mortified. On her return home, rather than telling me all about her holiday, my wife ranted about my MIL's embarrassing, non-existant airline passenger etiqette instead!
Lucky I wasn't on the flight, I'd've given her a right (quiet) mouthful, bloody vacant old fart. Sorry for the thread drift but I do feel better now. Why are MIL's such a massive pain in the arse, even more so when you're stuck on a frigging plane with them?!
However, I thought the knee-defender gadget, while clever, is just a sh1tfight waiting to happen.
There's nothing worse than a discourteous, self-centred passenger. While tall people may think it's not cricket to recline without the person in front first checking for knees behind them/warning passenger behind them in advance of the oncoming recline/coming to an amicable halfway-house arrangement with person behind, similarly, it is not cricket for tall people armed with a knee-defender to not discuss it with the person in front before they decide to use it.
As others have said, if a seat reclines, a passenger should have the option to use it. If a tall person removes that option by way of a knee-defender before showing the person in front the same courtesy of discussing it first, that makes him no better than the person in front who does not discuss things with the person behind before he reclines.
In reality, I hope the airlines see sense and ban these gadgets if they see them in use on their aircraft. They will only cause more problems.
I understand it's frustrating for tall (and short, pedantic) folk to be battered by seat-backs but using a knee-defender to increase one passenger's comfort will also serve to deny someone else of theirs, so this daft knee-defender will only ever be bought by similar, self-centred, discourteous, and above all hypocritical passengers trying to get their own back. The knee-defender will only serve to increase tensions between passengers.
The airlines (and their ever-decreasing seat pitching policies) will never admit blame for creating the short vs tall/can I recline or can't I recline arguments, but it really doesn't matter, especially if you are caught up in a situation like this yourself. You just want it to be resolved so you can 'enjoy' your flight. It just takes a bit of decency, consideration, calm attitude and a bit of give and take to resolve the situation. And if a compromise cannot be met, or your fellow passenger is being difficult or aggressive, call Cabin Crew, and let them mediate to help get the situation resolved.
I can't stand selfishness from airline passengers. Makes my blood boil. My MIL is the worst. On a flight from Perth-HongKong she embarrassed the hell out of my poor wife the entire trip. She committed the cardinal sin of reclining on the guy behind while he was still eating,
and she also managed to continually piss the guy off in front of her for good measure too. Whenever she (frequently) needed the loo, she grabbed the back of his headrest to haul her very-firmly wedged fat arse out of her seat, making him dip violently backwards every time. Poor chap must've had the patience of a saint because each time she did it she also grabbed and pulled his hair with her fingertips and he only ever quietly moaned about her to his wife! MIL was completely oblivious, my wife was absolutely mortified. On her return home, rather than telling me all about her holiday, my wife ranted about my MIL's embarrassing, non-existant airline passenger etiqette instead!Lucky I wasn't on the flight, I'd've given her a right (quiet) mouthful, bloody vacant old fart. Sorry for the thread drift but I do feel better now. Why are MIL's such a massive pain in the arse, even more so when you're stuck on a frigging plane with them?!
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The Cathay seat might not infringe on the space behind when reclined. But as the seat pan moves forward so does your knees. I can see people moaning already.
Anyway, I completely agree with TightSlot. If you are not happy with a product stop buying it. To expect others to give up part of the product they have purchased in order to improve yours, is, and let's be honest, selfish.
Anyway, I completely agree with TightSlot. If you are not happy with a product stop buying it. To expect others to give up part of the product they have purchased in order to improve yours, is, and let's be honest, selfish.
To expect others to give up part of the product they have purchased in order to improve yours, is, and let's be honest, selfish.
Nearly all of you continue to discuss this as a ME (wanting to recline) v YOU (not wanting me to recline) debate. The ME brigade call the YOU brigade selfish and vv. Then we get the easy copouts: "catch the bus" & "don't buy the product" chucked in. The message I'm trying to promote is that YES if an airline provides a seat that reclines you should be entitled to recline it to its maximum, but equally NO this feature should not infringe on basic passenger comfort. I think that's a pretty fair and simple compromise.
You're all too busy defending your "right to recline" v "knees in the back" corners to see that the real culprit in all this is quite simply the airline! So stop getting at one another and focus on complaining for both sides of this issue directly to the airlines.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
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I think the "Knee Defender" has been banned by many airlines, anyway.
Sorry for all you six footer plus pax out there but I agree with the "right to recline brigade" except during meals. If I was six feet plus I certainly wouldn't fly economy longhaul and I wouldn't fly at all if I couldn't afford a better seat pitch ticket.
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i agree with tightslot and yvonne lynch almost everyone will know at the time of booking the airlines seat pitch so if you go cattle class dont be bitchin when a seat goes back!! you get what you pay for .
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you get what you pay for
Nowhere in the airline's advertising blurp do I see "when travelling in economy you may be subjected to hours of agonising discomfort should the passenger in front of you wish to recline their seat. This is what you paid for".
Give me a break