ZB 533 01/09/06 ex PMI

[cessna l plate]

Firstly, if you were part of the operating crew of this flight, then await the call from your bosses, my letter is in the post!!

I have never witnessed such a shambles of an in flight service before. Nothing appeared to be in either galley, thus the CC spent much of the flight ferrying stuff from one galley to another. The supplies were woeful, please don't tell me that you can sell out of sandwiches inside 15 rows!

But, I would most like to know why it took the senior crew member, someone who should really know and deliver better, 50 minutes to carry out a drinks service to a mere 9 rows.

Furthermore, I personally don't appreciate the "heavy" sales pitch for "hello magazine". That was obviously a crew member sat at the back with a copy on his lap trying to make it sound interesting, by reading the front cover, in order to shift a few. I personally couldn't give a toss who got married last week. And neither should you! It sounds un-proffesional in the extreme. Perhaps if a little less time had been spent in the "staff shop" at PMI, and a little more on board the aircraft, then this might not have happened.

That is the whinge over, now we move onto the rant......

I fully appreciate that cabin service is an "added extra", and that the primary function of the CC is that of flight safety. Please then explain to me why from where I was sat, I could see at least 6 pax who thought that the daily telegraph was more interesting that a video on how to get out of a burning aircraft. If they want to die in ignorance, that is their choice, however, there is a duty on the commander of an aircraft (I assume delegated to CC) to ensure that all passengers are aware of emergency procedures, how to use life vests, operate seat belts and doors. (If anyone wants to be pedantic I will happliy quote the appropriate section of the ANO) Yet the crew, who have this done for them by a video walked past several of these numpties without a word!!

This is shocking, the worst service I have ever experienced, and from what appears to be a somewhat inept crew that cannot even perform a very basic primary function.

My letter to Monarch is in the post!!!!!

[SXB]

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. I would normally give any airline at least 2, possibly 3, goes before I dumped them, everyone can have an off day.

Most of your complaints seem to be based around bad service from the CC, generally speaking most airlines are so customer focused that this part of their business is generally pretty good. You may just have been unlucky and the victim of a set of unusual circumstances, I don't have any experience with Monarch but it maybe that if you took the same flight tomorrow the service would be a lot better.

As for the safety demonstration I hear what you're saying but I've lost count of the number of times I've heard 'even if you're a frequent traveller please take a moment to study the safety card in the seat in front of you' from the PA announcer. I'm not really sure what else they can do. Personally I always watch the safety demonstration even if I'm familiar with the aircraft, I think it's basic good manners, if I was at work and giving a briefing to a group of people I would not be happy if I saw some of them reading the Daily Telegraph. I even watch the automated safety messages, I like watching the guy bump into the sign and then putting on his glasses

[sofa]

I take it you expressed your dissatisfaction with the inflight service to the senior crew member on board ?

[Final 3 Greens]

Personally I always watch the safety demonstration even if I'm familiar with the aircraft, I think it's basic good manners,

Agreed; it's irritating when others don't, but difficult for the crew to intervene, unless the pax start talking over the audio, when I've seen the crew ask the offenders to be quiet.

[pamann]

there is a duty on the commander of an aircraft (I assume delegated to CC) to ensure that all passengers are aware of emergency procedures, how to use life vests, operate seat belts and doors. (If anyone wants to be pedantic I will happliy quote the appropriate section of the ANO) Yet the crew, who have this done for them by a video walked past several of these numpties without a word!!

In all fairness here in the UK regulations require that a safety briefing be given, be that by manual means or by video. There's no requirement which stipulates that YOU (pax) have to watch it. Yes agreed you won't find the safety info in the telegraph but CC can not stop anyone reading it whilst the safety briefing takes place, it's just common courtesy and for your own good. Otherwise I'd need a stick to prod all those passengers asleep at 0500 in the morning as I point out the nearest exit. Running round like a prison warden at the beginning of the flight is generally not such good practise.

Furthermore, I personally don't appreciate the "heavy" sales pitch for "hello magazine".

ZB = Monarch Scheduled = Low cost - get used to it I'm afraid. If you want a quiet flight fly BA, if you don't speak a word of Spanish fly Iberia that way you won't understand a word they say, thus you won't wind yourself up over it.

I personally couldn't give a toss who got married last week. And neither should you! It sounds un-proffesional in the extreme. Perhaps if a little less time had been spent in the "staff shop" at PMI, and a little more on board the aircraft, then this might not have happened.

Now call me stupid, but what does the crew shop have to do with the sale of Hello magazines on board a flight??? Or if I'm being really silly what does someone's wedding, Hello magazine and the Palma crew shop have to do with any of your rants??? On that subject does Palma still have a crew shop???

I have never witnessed such a shambles of an in flight service before. Nothing appeared to be in either galley, thus the CC spent much of the flight ferrying stuff from one galley to another. The supplies were woeful, please don't tell me that you can sell out of sandwiches inside 15 rows!

- Oh yes the crew cater the aircraft too these days!!! Have you ever seen that truck attached to the back of an aircraft??? Well it's a catering truck and generally the guys on that catering truck cater the aircraft! Oh but of course that’s the crew's fault that the caterer's catered the aircraft badly, same as it's the crews fault that the passenger in 14E lost their passport, and that Mrs Jenkins in 4A forgot to cancel her milk order for the week.

Now just a hypothetical situation:

- Day 1 - 50 Sandwiches on board, passengers not very hungry, 14 sold = waste (think 3rd world countries now!)
- Day 2 - 100 Sandwiches on board, passengers starving (sorry meant very hungry, starving is what children are in parts of Africa) all sold had complaints. Well hang on while my batch rises in the rear galley, oh and Deirdre get buttering those sarnies, our fault again!

50 minutes to carry out a drinks service to a mere 9 rows.

Ok, now sometimes it takes ten minutes sometimes an hour. Unfortunately my batteries in my crystal ball died whilst trying to work out how many sandwiches we may need on a flight. You've obviously done a drinks service have you????

Now just for the record Pam does not work for Monarch just understands the issue's that arise during the "Sandwich Famine".

Just trying to point out that not everything is the cabin crews fault. Including when the check-in lady tells you 11C is a window when it's quite obviously an aisle.

If you really hate flying so much Wally Ollie do some fab excursions round the UK by coach

[cessna l plate]

Originally Posted by pamann

If you really hate flying so much Wally Ollie do some fab excursions round the UK by coach

What the hell sort of pilot would I be if I hated flying?????

I appreciate that catering is external, however, if CC had paid more attention to what was happening at turnround then this might not have happened. I understand that sometines things get put in the wrong place, but everything was in the wrong place, the whole lot.

I find that on the odd occasion I go to Liverpool to fly ezy, the CC at ezy are very particular with the safety breifing, and will become very objectionable with those that don't pay attention. My point here is that although you think you cannot force pax to watch a safety demo, as your first priority is flight safety, then you should make a point of enforcing it. The person reading the paper, will not know where the exit is in a crash and will then either panic and cause problems or become so dumb as to become a bigger problem altogether. Either way, I don't mind dying of my own ignorance, but I refuse to die of someone else's arrogance!!!!

And no, I didn't report my dissatisfaction to the senior crew member, she was the cause of it!!!

[10secondsurvey]

Originally Posted by pamann

Now just a hypothetical situation:
- Day 1 - 50 Sandwiches on board, passengers not very hungry, 14 sold = waste (think 3rd world countries now!)
- Day 2 - 100 Sandwiches on board, passengers starving (sorry meant very hungry, starving is what children are in parts of Africa) all sold had complaints.

It makes me quite nauseous when any airline tries to imply a reduction in catering is due to concern about waste and how it compares to third world famine.

It's about money, and just how much (or how little) the airline concerned thinks it can get away with.

[surely not]

The caterers provid the sarnies etc, but the cabin crew are supposed to check the right carts are in the right galley with the right things inside.......aren't they?

[lexxity]

if CC had paid more attention to what was happening at turnround then this might not have happened.

Wrong, the crew were probably getting a quick bite to eat during turnaround. They are entitled to a break you know. And if the caterers had been doing their job properly.

[SXB]

That doesn't really wash, certain tasks need to be performed and checked at each turnaround. If the crew need a break all these tasks still need to be performed, if they were late arriving they still need performing and if that makes the flight late then so be it. That said I doubt if the problems on this particular flight were caused becaue the CC were having a break.

[topdog1]

I think there is more important things in life to worry about!

Just get yourself a life!

You obviously think you know it all because you fly puddle jumpers!!

[10secondsurvey]

Teamilk&sugar,

Cessna has already explained why he did not talk to the senior cc, as she was the cause of the problems. Didn't you read the thread?

As SXB rightly points out, this forum is entitled 'passengers and self loading freight', and so people will post of their experiences good and bad. It is not for you to determine what a poster can and cannot discuss.

If I pay for service, whether on an airline or not, I would normally expect to get it. Cessna Plate is just highlighting what he sees as a failure in service delivery.

Whether someone has a tough job or not is kind of irrelevant (although such people do have my sympathy).

[topdog1]

If it was the person in charge's fault then he should have given her the chance to rectify his problem, he may have been pleasantly surprised!

[SXB]

Top Dog

The only way to have done that would have been to ask to see the Captain once the flight had landed. Of course any chance of correcting the original problem would have been too late on this occasion.

Personally I would have gone up to the galley and asked the senior cabin crew member if there was any particular reason as to why the service on this particular flight was so bad.

[Bangkokeasy]

Ah, a dissatisfied customer! I always laugh when I see comments from such as TMS and Sofa (I've long since stopped cringeing!). However, you hear them most from spokespeople for companies that persist in providing inferior service. It is pretty much customer service 101, that complaints you actually receive from customers are the tip of the iceberg and that if one complains, there will be four or five that remain silent, but will instead slag you off behind your back, or just not use you again. You therefore, welcome the complaints you receive and use them as an opportunity to do something about it. Of course there is a chance, if CIP deigned to raise the matter with the senior cc, the problem could be fixed. BUT, the onus should NEVER be on the customer to complain.

CIP's rant is also pretty typical, in that it's indiscriminate in its target; everything is at fault. This happens quite a lot - if someone is ticked off at one aspect of service sufficiently to put pen to paper, the chances are they will take the opportunity to get everything off their chest. If you are to deal with the complaint in a constructive way and get something out of it, you need to condense it into the salient points and deal with them objectively. You may never know what orginally sparked the rant. While it may be necessary to address all the customer's complaints, some can be explained, rather than action taken. I doubt if Monarch would actually do anything about the Hello thing, they are operating in a low cost environment, but they might like to address the slow cabin service and lack of refreshments, for instance.

It is interesting to see some of the reactions in this thread!

[topdog1]

SXB

I think you will find that the Capt has absolutely nothing to do with the inflight service.

Cessna

If people feel the need to complain about the service they should stand up and speak to the manager, you cannot just walk away and then write a letter to the company, you need to give that company the opportunity to put things right, then if nothing has been corrected or you still feel unhappy then write to the company.

[cessna l plate]

TMS
Where does "racist" come from. I wasn't aware that being a scouser was now a "race", perhaps some elements of PC has passed me by. Just for the record, I spent several happy years learning at Liverpool, and have freinds there that I tell "scouser" jokes to, in the same way that they aim "Manc" jokes at me.

Although the cabin service was appauling in the extreme, that is not the main hub of my original post, my problem was about the safety breifing. The catering side of things whilst dissapointing, was not really going to endanger my life in the event of an accident.

I am not a "stab in the back merchant", there is a letter in a similar vain winging its way to Luton as we speak. No matter what operation an airline run, be it legacy, mainline or lo-co, the fact remains that I have paid for a service and expect it to be delivered. Again, for the record, there was nothing low cost about the fares that I paid, over £600 for me, the missus and daughter. I didn't complain at the time as I was tring to get off an airliner with a 5 year old bored to tears little girl, hardly the time to hold up the rest of the cabin to have a rant!!!!

I have no problem with crew taking a break. They are entitled as we all are at work. I take my breaks at work, that doesn't prevent my boss from giving me a kicking for poor performance. A break is one thing, ensuring that the crew got all their duty frees is another. I fully appreciate that the crew have a difficult job to do, and I don't assume to know it all because I drive a "puddle jumper". As I work in a related industry, that works along side crews at times, I know what the job entails.

To be fair, had I paid £20 each way I probably wouldn't have an issue, I would accept that I get what I paid for, but when I could have taken the family to New York for only a couple of hundred quid more, then I expect £600 worth of service. You might note that I am not complaining about the flight down to PMI, the service was outstanding, with a professional crew, that required those listening to I-pods and reading to pack it in for a few moments, which they did.

As for TMS your first post was original and witty. Sadly the original bits weren't witty and the witty bits weren't original. Is there any begining to your talents??????

[TightSlot]

The first post in this thread contains the subject matter: If you are not posting something related to that subject, then you are wandering off topic. Shouting at somebody with whom you disagree contributes nothing to the debate, except to raise the temperature, and for this reason, some posts have been deleted.



Now, back to the original post... and posting as a private individual, not as a mod.

Nothing appeared to be in either galley, thus the CC spent much of the flight ferrying stuff from one galley to another. The supplies were woeful, please don't tell me that you can sell out of sandwiches inside 15 rows!

Yes, you can sell out of sandwiches in 15 rows: You can do it in 10 or even 5, if everybody asks for them. An airline does not carry sandwiches on a 1 per passenger basis, in the hope that all will purchase. Doing so would incur significant cost and wastage. The stock of sandwiches carried is usually based on historic purchase data. This means, inevitably, that on some days there will be insufficient and on others, too many. There is no obligation (moral or otherwise) for an airline to carry sandwiches to cater for all possible or theoretical demand. The ultimate responsibiliy for food lies with the customer: They can bring their own food with them, eat in advance of travel, purchase an in-flight meal from the airline, or, take the chance that they can purchase on board.

Galley loading of stock is based around the premise that stock should be evenly loaded front and rear, complicated by weight and volume restrictions within each galley/cart. If demand for particular products on a given day is high, then a certain amout of running between the carts and galleys is inevitable, and becomes more pronounced if the demand tends to rise, as it does when people see you holding a particular product in your hand.

I would most like to know why it took the senior crew member, someone who should really know and deliver better, 50 minutes to carry out a drinks service to a mere 9 rows

Surely, it took that long because that is how long it took. I assume the CC concerned was actually working on the bar service during this time and not doing something else? If 50 minutes is too long, it is unclear what period of time should have been taken to make it acceptable - 20 minutes? 30? 40? Should the bar service have been started 1 row away from you, or more, or less? Monarch will need to understand what you feel is an acceptable answer to these problems in order that they can review their cabin service and make necessary changes.

Perhaps if a little less time had been spent in the "staff shop" at PMI

May we assume from this comment that you observed first hand the CC involved visiting the staff shop, and also the subsequent related impact on their turnaround duties? I imagine this must be the case, since it would be unwise to write to Monarch and make a claim based on assumptions: To do so might detract from the strength of your position.

there is a duty on the commander of an aircraft (I assume delegated to CC) to ensure that all passengers are aware of emergency procedures

The actual words in the ANO are that passengers "are made familiar with...": The ANO may be found here. Lamentable though it may be, some passengers choose to behave as you describe. There is no specific instruction in the UK for CC to approach passengers so doing and require them to close their newspaper, unless it is obstructing the view of others. It is impossible to prove in law, that a customer is not watching the demo, even though they may appear not to be. As a scenario - I approach a passenger and ask for them to stop reading their newspaper and they refuse: I insist: they refuse again. I inform the Commander and we return to our parking stand for an offload and a baggage i.d. with a consequent delay. Alternatively, when asked, the passenger tells me that he can see the video briefing over the top of the newspaper. I demur and off we go again. The fact is, surely, that as in all areas, a degree of compromise is required? The only certain way of ensuring that all passengers were "familiar" with the equipment and procedures, would be to question them individually after each safety briefing, and only allow carriage to those that answered correctly. This doesn't happen because it is a commercially unrealistic proposition. Instead, airlines provide the information, and assertively ask passengers to take note of it, policing it as best they can without rendering operations ineffective.


The original post made use of phrases such as "shambles", "woeful", "shocking", and "inept" and in a later post "appalling". Clearly, perception is all, and I wasn't there, and therefore cannot judge or defend the crew: They may have been as atrocious as they have been portrayed and when you pay £200 for a round trip fare to somewhere in peak season, you are entitled to be treated reasonably. Despite attempts to ignore it however, I keep hearing a nagging voice that tells me that this is something of a storm in a teacup? Based on what I have read, I would not have chosen to use any of the words shown above, since they are (for me at least) somewhat overly emotional and subjective - but maybe that's just me?

[boyo25]

Safety briefings

Interesting...
Monarch's SOPs regarding safety briefings may differ from the (Big) airline I work for, but ours are very clearly laid out in black and white -
'Whilst the airline is required to provide the demonstration (by means of video or manually) passengers may choose whether or not to watch'.
I'm not saying that I agree with this or not. It does, however, mean that crew cannot insist that a passenger put down his/her paper and watch the demo, like the example you used of Easyjet crew. Besides, this would be absurd - how could a few members of crew police a whole cabin to enforce this, whilst simultaneously performing the demo or pointing out exits?
So if a passenger is blocking his/her own view of the demo - fine. What is not acceptable is when that passenger is blocking the view of others (same goes for noise disturbance). In these situations the crew can take action.
In addition, the Captain will usually stress the importance of the safety briefing, and the watching of it, during the welcome PA before departure.
If Monarch has the same SOPs regarding this I'm not sure that part of your complaint will stand ground.

[teamilk&sugar]

To be fair, had I paid £20 each way I probably wouldn't have an issue, I would accept that I get what I paid for, but when I could have taken the family to New York for only a couple of hundred quid more, then I expect £600 worth of service.

Ahhh...so Cessna plate...we have actually found the crux of your complaint! You say you were concerned about the level of professioanlism with the crew regarding safety, but somehow feel short-changed because you paid what you did.

As for running out of food....well, this sometimes happens believe it or not. Shame they run out before they got to you, but hey.

Topdog1s comment:

If people feel the need to complain about the service they should stand up and speak to the manager, you cannot just walk away and then write a letter to the company, you need to give that company the opportunity to put things right, then if nothing has been corrected or you still feel unhappy then write to the company.

...is absolutely spot on, and the reason why I'm posting on this thread.
I still fail to understand why during the course of the whole flight you couldn't have spoken to the CSD/Purser and explain your feelings, but feel you have to do it here instead....?