More appalling "service" from Air France/KLM
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if you want to change things then vote with your wallet and your feet
+ 7,1% pax traffic and + 0,9% seats occupied on board, up to 82,4%
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Ludo
Yes, normally I would point out that statistics mean nothing, very easy to manipulate. But in this case AF/KLM's success is also supported by the bottom line on their P&L statements. That said it's a lot easier to run an airline when most of your aircraft have been funded by the tax payer...
Yes, normally I would point out that statistics mean nothing, very easy to manipulate. But in this case AF/KLM's success is also supported by the bottom line on their P&L statements. That said it's a lot easier to run an airline when most of your aircraft have been funded by the tax payer...
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During the episode that prompted this thread, one disgruntled fellow passenger, when asking other Air France/KLM staff why they were not helping their colleague, was told: "that's why the tickets are cheap".
Some of KLM's fares are low but should that indicate that you deserve to be treated in the manner described? I was not aware tht KLM had changed their business model to an LCC.
Some of KLM's fares are low but should that indicate that you deserve to be treated in the manner described? I was not aware tht KLM had changed their business model to an LCC.
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I have received a reply from Swissport concerning the hassle on July 10th. They claim a small amount of baggage belonging to those passengers on KL 964 was off-loaded (I contend it was all off-loaded due to the need to get the bags for the cancelled 958 to AMS).
Swissport and KLM apparently strive to offer the best in customer support and "share my disappoinment" that this was not the case on Monday.
A cursory email from KLM today notes that Swissport has already been in contact and that any claims for loss should be sent to KLM. No explanation, mitigation or apology.
I would like to publish the emails I have received but suspect I may contravene the Data Protection Act if I were to do so.
Swissport and KLM apparently strive to offer the best in customer support and "share my disappoinment" that this was not the case on Monday.
A cursory email from KLM today notes that Swissport has already been in contact and that any claims for loss should be sent to KLM. No explanation, mitigation or apology.
I would like to publish the emails I have received but suspect I may contravene the Data Protection Act if I were to do so.
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when most of your aircraft have been funded by the tax payer
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I, too, never use KLM unless I really can't avoid it since I was in transit at BKK with a re-confirmed seat(actual seat reserved in business class) only to be told, " I'm sorry sir but the plane is full and you're not on it". I was a FF at the time.
When I got to AMS I went to the KLM desk to complain about the overbooking only to be met with incredulity at my asking about it at was told, "of course we overbook otherwise the planes would be half empty"! If the seats have all been sold and paid for I would have thought that half empty planes would be a good thing- less fuel,food....
Not long ago on the hop back from AMS to NCL( how old are those planes??) I almost thought we we going to board on time. Of course we then got the message that the plane had a technical fault and we needed to wait for another plane and they didn't know where it was or how long it was going to take. I asked the girl(?) at the desk why their planes break down so often expecting the party line of "this is not common sir..." but she just said, "I wish I could tell you"
When I got to AMS I went to the KLM desk to complain about the overbooking only to be met with incredulity at my asking about it at was told, "of course we overbook otherwise the planes would be half empty"! If the seats have all been sold and paid for I would have thought that half empty planes would be a good thing- less fuel,food....
Not long ago on the hop back from AMS to NCL( how old are those planes??) I almost thought we we going to board on time. Of course we then got the message that the plane had a technical fault and we needed to wait for another plane and they didn't know where it was or how long it was going to take. I asked the girl(?) at the desk why their planes break down so often expecting the party line of "this is not common sir..." but she just said, "I wish I could tell you"
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Is it my imagination or are the KLM Fokker 100s really prone to mechanical problems? Of the last four legs I have flown on one of them, I have got three delays of over an hour because of technical problems with the aircraft.
Incidentally, another one to add to the list of appalling service incidents, even if it didn't involve me. I was taking an evening flight out of Toulouse which was delayed by over an hour. One of my fellow customers was going to miss his connecting flight because of it. He was telling the staff that he often flew with Air France via Lyons instead of KLM via Amsterdam. Now you'd think with them being the same airline and with them being forced to deal with the consequences (overnight stay) of the flight being late into Amsterdam that it would be a case of checking if there was capacity to send him via Lyons. But no, the gate staff didn't even check this possibility prefering to assure him that he'd be taken care of in Amsterdam...
Incidentally, another one to add to the list of appalling service incidents, even if it didn't involve me. I was taking an evening flight out of Toulouse which was delayed by over an hour. One of my fellow customers was going to miss his connecting flight because of it. He was telling the staff that he often flew with Air France via Lyons instead of KLM via Amsterdam. Now you'd think with them being the same airline and with them being forced to deal with the consequences (overnight stay) of the flight being late into Amsterdam that it would be a case of checking if there was capacity to send him via Lyons. But no, the gate staff didn't even check this possibility prefering to assure him that he'd be taken care of in Amsterdam...
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Ludo
You'd be surprised at my knowledge of organisations that may or may not have been funded in ways that are contrary to the competition laws that exist in our Union. One thing I will absolutely guarantee is that I know a hell of lot more about it than you do.
SXB, it is obvious that you don't know what you are talking about, and you are right to post in the SLF Forum where your display of ignorance and repeating of information older than a decade might go unnoticed
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KLM
I too avoid KLM where possible, even though I am a Platinum FF. I have accrued a lot of level miles so am just going to use them up before I leave them.
I live in Amsterdam and flew Business Class to Newark / JFK 14 times last year so I would put myself in the category of 'bread and butter customer' for any airline. I always try and fly Continental because KLM are rubbish: cr@p food, cr@p service, cr@p IFE. Fortunately they haven't lost my luggage yet but I am expecting them to.
Living in Amsterdam has set my expectations to very low standards for customer service, it seems to be a Dutch thing...
I live in Amsterdam and flew Business Class to Newark / JFK 14 times last year so I would put myself in the category of 'bread and butter customer' for any airline. I always try and fly Continental because KLM are rubbish: cr@p food, cr@p service, cr@p IFE. Fortunately they haven't lost my luggage yet but I am expecting them to.
Living in Amsterdam has set my expectations to very low standards for customer service, it seems to be a Dutch thing...
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The attitude of the Dutch and info on KL 964
I am surprised to read several posts indicating that the Dutch attitude to customer service is poor. Like many Brits, I always felt the Dutch to be a progressive and tolerant people. Other than my experiences with KLM, all other dealings as a customer in AMS or other places in the Netherlands have been no problem at all.
I have exchanged several emails with KLM's Customer Care Dept over the problems with KL 964. I have been offered a £50 voucher as a gesture of goodwill; I have sent it back. Dishing out vouchers will not solve their problems.
Useless airline.
I have exchanged several emails with KLM's Customer Care Dept over the problems with KL 964. I have been offered a £50 voucher as a gesture of goodwill; I have sent it back. Dishing out vouchers will not solve their problems.
Useless airline.
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I gave up on KLM a year ago. It used to be so easy for me to drive the 25 miles to HUY, then hop over to AMS but they lost my luggage on so may occasions, both outbound and on the return leg that I was on first name terms with the van driver who used to deliver my bags. As has been said here, it's no fun, sitting in a hoel room, or worse a meeting room in the clothes you put on at 5 am yesterday.
I occaisionally had decent service, but it was adequate, rather than exceptional. I had Platinum status for 5 years running, but have switched my business to Star alliance.
The final straw was on a Thai airlines flight from Beijing to Bangkok. In business class, the guy sat behind me really, and I mean really laid into the CC for the quality of the aircraft seats. OK, it was a 747-300 and was "tired", but it wasn't the girls fault. Despite her apologies the guy shouted at the top of hs voice that "he was a member of the KLM board, so knew what was going on !". W
r !
I occaisionally had decent service, but it was adequate, rather than exceptional. I had Platinum status for 5 years running, but have switched my business to Star alliance.
The final straw was on a Thai airlines flight from Beijing to Bangkok. In business class, the guy sat behind me really, and I mean really laid into the CC for the quality of the aircraft seats. OK, it was a 747-300 and was "tired", but it wasn't the girls fault. Despite her apologies the guy shouted at the top of hs voice that "he was a member of the KLM board, so knew what was going on !". W
r !
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Originally Posted by Cyrano
That seems unfortunate. Did the fare rules for the ticket you bought allow it to be changed, or was it a non-flexible ticket for which you'd hoped your Platinum status would cause them to bend the rules?
fact is I bought the ticket online, and I had tried to book a return for Friday, only for the online facility to deny me (flight not available). Now as Platinum, KLM would guarantee me a seat on any flight with 24 hours notice, so I booked for a Saturday return intending to switch to Friday as soon as I could speak to someone at ZRH. Now I did book a non-flexible ticket, so technically KLM staff were quite correct, although I have to say it was not clear to me on the website that I was doing that, and had I known I would not have booked it that way. However it was the dismissive and rude attitude that really irked me, as well as the intransigence. As I said I was turned down twice, once face-face @ ZRH, and once over the 'phone with Platinum Helpdesk, when I had to buy another ticket, including having to pay a fee for doing it over the 'phone and being forced to cancel my original ticket.
Put this in context - this was the final straw after a couple of years of declining service; not only were KLM getting worse, but they suffered by comparison to almost every other carrier I have used.
As for spending miles, jeez, there is another story worthy of a thread by itself! Suffice to say I do not understand how it can be difficult to get to the USA when you have the combined capabilities of KLM, AF, Delta, Northwest and Continental.
Just flew LHR-ARN return w/ SAS, what lovely people!, and even my trips w/ RyanAir are a perfectly reasonable and predictable experience.
GDI
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Originally Posted by goshdarnit
although I have to say it was not clear to me on the website that I was doing that
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I have to chuckle. Experiences are all relative. But after spending most of your flights on US domestic services of USAirways, Untied, American, Delta and Northwest, I promise there'll be not much to complain about KLM.
I guess since I've been desensitized in the states....
I guess since I've been desensitized in the states....
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Airlines with 55+ cabin crew and well overweigthed.
Used US airlines in Business % First Class X timesbut was not amused at all with their CS, loads of talking without solving….
Seems to be a US thing…
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have been using KLM as airline of choice for over 10 years and find them acceptable value for money especially when compared to most US carriers. If you want the best service then fly BA and be prepared to pay at least 50% more in economy and at least twice as much in business.
Will admit though since merger with AF they have gone downhill especially their FF program.
Will admit though since merger with AF they have gone downhill especially their FF program.
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Nice attitude Perkin, is it a coincidence that your location is Netherlands?!
You missed the point - I became aware that I had made a mistake with the ticket, it was the attitude surrounding the situation that was the final straw. It could not really have been handled any worse. Do you actually understand what I am talking about? Customer service?
GDI
You missed the point - I became aware that I had made a mistake with the ticket, it was the attitude surrounding the situation that was the final straw. It could not really have been handled any worse. Do you actually understand what I am talking about? Customer service?
GDI
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Come to think of it, KLM is the only airline that has ever lost my bags in over 2000 sectors as SLF. They did it twice, took them to the wrong airport, after transitting in Schiphol. That was before 9/11 and I don't fly with them any more.
What amazes me about this thread though, is the number of posts defending the sort of service KLM appear still not to provide.
I spotted an apt quote today, attributed to the US talk show host, Dick Cavett. "As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it".
(edited for smelling pistakes)
What amazes me about this thread though, is the number of posts defending the sort of service KLM appear still not to provide.
I spotted an apt quote today, attributed to the US talk show host, Dick Cavett. "As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it".
(edited for smelling pistakes)
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Originally Posted by goshdarnit
Nice attitude Perkin, is it a coincidence that your location is Netherlands?!
You missed the point - I became aware that I had made a mistake with the ticket, it was the attitude surrounding the situation that was the final straw. It could not really have been handled any worse. Do you actually understand what I am talking about? Customer service?
GDI
You missed the point - I became aware that I had made a mistake with the ticket, it was the attitude surrounding the situation that was the final straw. It could not really have been handled any worse. Do you actually understand what I am talking about? Customer service?
GDI
The website is perfectly clear and you cannot really complain when you buy an incorrect ticket and expect them to change it, I suspect, because "I'm platinum member of flying blue". I know a fair few people who have missed flights (on non-flexible tickets) and KLM desk agents have re-booked them free of charge, no excess ticket charges and with a smile as long as they were treated similarly. So perhaps its actually your attitude thats at fault here?
Given your apparent attitude towards the Dutch, I suggest you don't bother visiting this grand little corner of Europe anymore if its populace irritate you that much.
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Gosh, a little PPRuNe spat!
perkin: I alluded to your location, not your nationality; irrespective of that I have no problem with the Dutch, or any other nationality. Try not to be so defensive.
However I am grateful that you pointed out that it was all my fault; doubtless now that I am no longer upsetting the KLM folks the service will improve.
perkin: I alluded to your location, not your nationality; irrespective of that I have no problem with the Dutch, or any other nationality. Try not to be so defensive.
However I am grateful that you pointed out that it was all my fault; doubtless now that I am no longer upsetting the KLM folks the service will improve.