Heathrow security
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How and why do staff not have airside passes?
Probably coz it takes over a f
year for Disclosure Scotland to bother dealing with your basic disclosure application, and they need renuing every 4 (i think) years. I had to wait a whole year for mine! Waste of space as a result but totaly out of my, and my company's hands.
But c'est la vie, we are all still alive so i can't complain.
Probably coz it takes over a f
year for Disclosure Scotland to bother dealing with your basic disclosure application, and they need renuing every 4 (i think) years. I had to wait a whole year for mine! Waste of space as a result but totaly out of my, and my company's hands.But c'est la vie, we are all still alive so i can't complain.
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Originally Posted by striparella
^....a member of BAA actually told me they were on a go slow!
In my view there is no shortage of staff just poor deployment, supervision and management. Next time you pass through check the number of clip board holders.
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Im a security agent at Bristol. I do understand laptops coming out, as an Xray screener its very difficult to clearly screen laptops when there are dozens of other wires, electrical devices, etc covering them. I wish we'd get laptops out! But we dont.
As for the Japan thing, majorly pointless in my opinion, either get them out or dont.
Metal cutlery in the restricted zone? Deary me, that cant be good.
As for ceramic knives...if carried on the person, there isnt a way of detecting them automatically, no. But if they look suspicious and havent set off the AMD (archway metal detector) then they can always be selected for a random search. Of course a certain ratio of random searches should always be carried out anyway. Detecting ceramic knives is possible when screening by xray of course.
Expired RZ Passes? No one enters the RZ at Bristol with an expired pass. You'd think Heathrow would be tighter than us though wouldnt you?
We have no immigration etc for departing passengers though, but we still have huge queues and it doesnt help, like others have said, when passengers havent got their coats off before they get to the search comb. All passengers should remove coats, and have keys, mobile phones and any other electrical devices in their pockets (NOT COINS) ready to throw into the tray. But unfortunately most passengers check their brains in with their hold luggage. No hope.
As for the Japan thing, majorly pointless in my opinion, either get them out or dont.
Metal cutlery in the restricted zone? Deary me, that cant be good.
As for ceramic knives...if carried on the person, there isnt a way of detecting them automatically, no. But if they look suspicious and havent set off the AMD (archway metal detector) then they can always be selected for a random search. Of course a certain ratio of random searches should always be carried out anyway. Detecting ceramic knives is possible when screening by xray of course.
Expired RZ Passes? No one enters the RZ at Bristol with an expired pass. You'd think Heathrow would be tighter than us though wouldnt you?
We have no immigration etc for departing passengers though, but we still have huge queues and it doesnt help, like others have said, when passengers havent got their coats off before they get to the search comb. All passengers should remove coats, and have keys, mobile phones and any other electrical devices in their pockets (NOT COINS) ready to throw into the tray. But unfortunately most passengers check their brains in with their hold luggage. No hope.
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SLF3 - I don't mind waiting at passport control now as it's long over due that everyone is checked.... I take it you do as you're told and wait patiently in a US passport control line? Thought so 
Did you not know we mirror the US? Whatever they do, we introduce gradually here.... Smile the CCTV is watching you in the line.
Did you not know we mirror the US? Whatever they do, we introduce gradually here.... Smile the CCTV is watching you in the line.
Thread Starter
ATCO 187,
the problem at Bristol is compounded because there aren't enough tables for you to have got your coat off, taken your computer out of its bag, put you money etc in something to hold it before you get to the machine - and if, as I unfortunately do, you walk with a stick, you don't end up with enough hands to hold everything.
It would make things a lot faster if the US example was followed with about 10 feet of table leading up to the machine. This would give people a chance to get ready befroe they get there. Incidentally, I didn't figure out why, as a BA Club class passenger, I didn't get fast track there the other week. Still, it doesn't matter because as there's no more Club Class on BA from BRS, I'll not be flying from there anymore.
the problem at Bristol is compounded because there aren't enough tables for you to have got your coat off, taken your computer out of its bag, put you money etc in something to hold it before you get to the machine - and if, as I unfortunately do, you walk with a stick, you don't end up with enough hands to hold everything.
It would make things a lot faster if the US example was followed with about 10 feet of table leading up to the machine. This would give people a chance to get ready befroe they get there. Incidentally, I didn't figure out why, as a BA Club class passenger, I didn't get fast track there the other week. Still, it doesn't matter because as there's no more Club Class on BA from BRS, I'll not be flying from there anymore.
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45 minutes to get through T2 security on Monday morning - totally unacceptable. If BAA managers can't do better than that they should seek a future elsewhere. Immigration at T2 on Friday 30+ minutes, again, totally unacceptable. If BAA were not a monopoly and immigration not a government service heads would role. Perhaps it's time the head of the current government's head rolled as he seems to be the person who believes in the terrorism threat but doesn't offer evidence or explanation for his beliefs. 
BAA management perhaps also ought to consider the long term impact of this chaos on their business - Air NZ are well aware of how their transit passengers now view LAX and the business they lose - keep following the US boys - straight down the pan .
BAA management perhaps also ought to consider the long term impact of this chaos on their business - Air NZ are well aware of how their transit passengers now view LAX and the business they lose - keep following the US boys - straight down the pan .
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[/quote]It is a measure of how low our expectations are that we tolerate Heathrow.[/quote]
Couldn't agree more, SLF3. I could name about 10 airports around the world where the security and immigration procedures work sooo much better than Heathrow with a similar throughput of SLF per terminal. What these airports share in common, is that they exist in countries where the government and people take some pride in welcoming visitors to the country, so they make sure the airport, being the visitor's first experience of the country, gives a good impression. Heathrow is nothing short of a national disgrace. As a Brit, I am embarassed by it. Arriving in Heathrow from abroad with foreign visitors, I have found myself having to apologise for the state of the place, almost before the wheels have stopped turning. Have we no self respect?
Couldn't agree more, SLF3. I could name about 10 airports around the world where the security and immigration procedures work sooo much better than Heathrow with a similar throughput of SLF per terminal. What these airports share in common, is that they exist in countries where the government and people take some pride in welcoming visitors to the country, so they make sure the airport, being the visitor's first experience of the country, gives a good impression. Heathrow is nothing short of a national disgrace. As a Brit, I am embarassed by it. Arriving in Heathrow from abroad with foreign visitors, I have found myself having to apologise for the state of the place, almost before the wheels have stopped turning. Have we no self respect?
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"countries where the government and people take some pride in welcoming visitors to the country, so they make sure the airport, being the visitor's first experience of the country, gives a good impression"
.....Never felt welcome in the States! STAND BEHIND THE LINE!!
The problem with us Brits is that we moan if passports aren't checked and we moan when they are checked. I know people who work for our immigration and they are catching lots of Brit people traffickers now all passports are checked. Naughty.
.....Never felt welcome in the States! STAND BEHIND THE LINE!!
The problem with us Brits is that we moan if passports aren't checked and we moan when they are checked. I know people who work for our immigration and they are catching lots of Brit people traffickers now all passports are checked. Naughty.
Aisle seat, please.
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LHR T2 to close
Well, looks as if the queues at terminal two will get shorter in a couple of years.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4849758.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4849758.stm
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Originally Posted by striparella
Lol no but i work at LHR and have never, EVER had a passenger been late due to getting through security. Shopping? Yes. Fallen asleep at on the chairs? Yes. Security? No.
I simply wouldn't want the BAA at my gate interferring with everything. They do enough of that as it is!!
I simply wouldn't want the BAA at my gate interferring with everything. They do enough of that as it is!!
That's bad enough - I have lost count of the number of people I have met over the years who have missed flights transferring from one terminal to another due mainly to security at the famous flight transfer centre, despite having the "recommended" 2 hours between flights - 2 hours!! And if you're late for your flight through no fault of your own - you're absoloutely on your own, son. This DOES NOT happen in many other airports that I've been though, as in places like Dubai, Schipol, etc, there are staff waiting for you to bring you though if you're tight.
ShamRoc has it right. And just to cap off the normal badly managed mess, we have BAA goslows and will have the annual BA strike shortly. I have voted with my feet for years and avoided LHR like the plague whenever feasible - why would anyone in their right mind use the place if they can transfer through Manchester, Birmingham, or Schipol?
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Originally Posted by bear11
The place is a big enough kip without LHR workers making comments like this. You, presumably, are trying to justify entry into one terminal for one flight, rather than transferring between terminals? Even if it's into one terminal, I can guarantee you, despite you not wanting to acknowledge reality, that more than a few people have missed their flights since the latest farce which is allegedly over laptops. Both of us know it has more to do with a go slow than having to take your laptop out of your bag.
That's bad enough - I have lost count of the number of people I have met over the years who have missed flights transferring from one terminal to another due mainly to security at the famous flight transfer centre, despite having the "recommended" 2 hours between flights - 2 hours!! And if you're late for your flight through no fault of your own - you're absoloutely on your own, son. This DOES NOT happen in many other airports that I've been though, as in places like Dubai, Schipol, etc, there are staff waiting for you to bring you though if you're tight.
ShamRoc has it right. And just to cap off the normal badly managed mess, we have BAA goslows and will have the annual BA strike shortly. I have voted with my feet for years and avoided LHR like the plague whenever feasible - why would anyone in their right mind use the place if they can transfer through Manchester, Birmingham, or Schipol?
That's bad enough - I have lost count of the number of people I have met over the years who have missed flights transferring from one terminal to another due mainly to security at the famous flight transfer centre, despite having the "recommended" 2 hours between flights - 2 hours!! And if you're late for your flight through no fault of your own - you're absoloutely on your own, son. This DOES NOT happen in many other airports that I've been though, as in places like Dubai, Schipol, etc, there are staff waiting for you to bring you though if you're tight.
ShamRoc has it right. And just to cap off the normal badly managed mess, we have BAA goslows and will have the annual BA strike shortly. I have voted with my feet for years and avoided LHR like the plague whenever feasible - why would anyone in their right mind use the place if they can transfer through Manchester, Birmingham, or Schipol?
Lol er no....so let me bring you down form your high horse....i was referring to posts about having security in front of gates instead of a landside/airside divide.....NOTHING to do with flight conx....
I travelled through BAA run LGW last Tuesday. There was no queue at security; i didn't need to take my lap top out and I was through the whole process in under 5 mins.
That the situation at LHR is allowed to continue is farcical.
It must be costing BA in particular a fortune in terms of both cost and reputation and you can bet that BAA won't be footing the bill!
That the situation at LHR is allowed to continue is farcical.
It must be costing BA in particular a fortune in terms of both cost and reputation and you can bet that BAA won't be footing the bill!
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Originally Posted by oncemorealoft
IThat the situation at LHR is allowed to continue is farcical. It must be costing BA in particular a fortune in terms of both cost and reputation and you can bet that BAA won't be footing the bill!
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Simple process design faults cause the delays
I too have been increasingly frustrated by the queuing at LHR T4. It must make no economic sense for BAA, as each minute passengers spend in the queue is a minute they are not spending in BAA's retailers' shops ... not to mention a significantly decreased level of enthusiasm for the whole experience.
Of course, more scanners / more staff would help. But I think there are very small process changes which would really speed up the whole process ... but I think BAA is blind to them.
Here's what I think is a key root cause:
There used to be long (3-5m) roller tables before each scanner. Passengers would approach the tables in parallel and arrange their bags, remove metal from pockets etc, while they were queuing to use the machine.
A year or so ago BAA took out the tables, providing space for only one person at a time to put their bags on the table before the scanner. Each person gets to the head of the queue then starts removing all their stuff. As a result, there is a lengthy queue - far worse with the new rule about laptops - and there is clearly visible "dead time" for the scanner operator and the search teams.
I asked them about this change and they said it was because they need continual visibility of which passenger owns which bag.
I think they should restore the table and use cameras to capture who owns which bag.
Second root cause:
They have a rule that only male staff can wave a wand over male passengers, and female/female. As a result, when one male passenger is stopped for screening at the arch, all other male passengers are held in the queue. Result: long queue, with idle female search staff.
Instead, male passengers should continue to pass through the arch under supervision of the female staff member. If someone bleeps, they can be put back through the arch into a holding position until the male searcher is available again. If they don't bleep, they can just go through.
Third root cause:
Some passengers (mainly Americans) are paranoid about setting off the bleep, so they take EVERYTHING out of their pockets ... 1p coins, paperclips, watch, belt ... quite unnecessarily in most cases. This creates a further 30sec delay which causes queues to build up.
A couple of simple changes which might take 30% off the queue length!
Of course, more scanners / more staff would help. But I think there are very small process changes which would really speed up the whole process ... but I think BAA is blind to them.
Here's what I think is a key root cause:
There used to be long (3-5m) roller tables before each scanner. Passengers would approach the tables in parallel and arrange their bags, remove metal from pockets etc, while they were queuing to use the machine.
A year or so ago BAA took out the tables, providing space for only one person at a time to put their bags on the table before the scanner. Each person gets to the head of the queue then starts removing all their stuff. As a result, there is a lengthy queue - far worse with the new rule about laptops - and there is clearly visible "dead time" for the scanner operator and the search teams.
I asked them about this change and they said it was because they need continual visibility of which passenger owns which bag.
I think they should restore the table and use cameras to capture who owns which bag.
Second root cause:
They have a rule that only male staff can wave a wand over male passengers, and female/female. As a result, when one male passenger is stopped for screening at the arch, all other male passengers are held in the queue. Result: long queue, with idle female search staff.
Instead, male passengers should continue to pass through the arch under supervision of the female staff member. If someone bleeps, they can be put back through the arch into a holding position until the male searcher is available again. If they don't bleep, they can just go through.
Third root cause:
Some passengers (mainly Americans) are paranoid about setting off the bleep, so they take EVERYTHING out of their pockets ... 1p coins, paperclips, watch, belt ... quite unnecessarily in most cases. This creates a further 30sec delay which causes queues to build up.
A couple of simple changes which might take 30% off the queue length!
Folks
T4 last evening. Checked in for LHR-GRU and used the fast-track. Waited in the queue for about 10 minutes or so, laptop out of bag and into a tray. Total was about 15 minutes.
I must add however that the departures are before checking in was horrendous. I gave up getting from one end to the other and went down to the arrivals level and walked the length there. Went back up at the other end. It was really chaotic - there's just no room there. I was trying to work out in my mind why it was so crowded but I think it is just that the building wasn't designed to cater to so many people. I overheard a staff member saying "just wait until T5 is operational, it's huge". I hope he's right.
T4 last evening. Checked in for LHR-GRU and used the fast-track. Waited in the queue for about 10 minutes or so, laptop out of bag and into a tray. Total was about 15 minutes.
I must add however that the departures are before checking in was horrendous. I gave up getting from one end to the other and went down to the arrivals level and walked the length there. Went back up at the other end. It was really chaotic - there's just no room there. I was trying to work out in my mind why it was so crowded but I think it is just that the building wasn't designed to cater to so many people. I overheard a staff member saying "just wait until T5 is operational, it's huge". I hope he's right.
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And finally Bloody Awful Airports have a message on their website claiming
a) too many people departing early on holiday for Easter (odd that I was caught in February in all this, now that really was an early Easter.)
b) Passengers now carrying far more hand luggage (strangely the check-in guys n gals seem rather strict about liberating it all into the hold before you get near Security to comply with the airlines own policies).
Its not too often you get to see the end result of continual attempts to cut costs, but occasionally it all goes spectacularly pear shaped as we are seeing
Anyway keep up the good work BAA, I wont be coming to T4 any time soon. Wonder what the store sales figures are like at the moment seeing as few people have time to shop anymore?.
a) too many people departing early on holiday for Easter (odd that I was caught in February in all this, now that really was an early Easter.)
b) Passengers now carrying far more hand luggage (strangely the check-in guys n gals seem rather strict about liberating it all into the hold before you get near Security to comply with the airlines own policies).
Its not too often you get to see the end result of continual attempts to cut costs, but occasionally it all goes spectacularly pear shaped as we are seeing
Anyway keep up the good work BAA, I wont be coming to T4 any time soon. Wonder what the store sales figures are like at the moment seeing as few people have time to shop anymore?.
Riding the Euro Gravy Plane
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I avoid LHR like the plague, I will just not spend two hours in a queue waiting to go through security. At the end of the day it's often BA who are losing out as a result of actions like mine. Example; next week I'm going to Baku, my nearest major airports are SXB and FRA and my choices are FRA-LHR-BAK or SXB-VIE-BAK, the first is a BA flight and its cheaper but I'll take the Austrian Airlines from SXB such is my aversion to LHR.
That said these queues are the sole responsibility of BAA, the excuses like "we don't have enough staff" or "there isn't enough space to install more security lanes" won't wash, if you don't have enough staff employ more, if you can't find enough staff then pay them more (this being the real issue I suspect) if you don't have enough space for more security lanes then start knocking down WHSmith and Costa Coffee so you can fit more in
I don't know of such queues at any other airports on mainland europe, FRA is my usual point of departure and it's a huge airport and I never spend more than a few minutes waiting to go through security and we've been taking laptops out of bags for years.
At the end of the day nearly all of the problems at Heathrow connected to security, buildings etc etc are down to the fact that the place is very poorly managed. BAA are only interested making $$$, LHR is a cash cow and BAA is milking it for as much as they can get. Until people start voting with their feet it won't change.
That said these queues are the sole responsibility of BAA, the excuses like "we don't have enough staff" or "there isn't enough space to install more security lanes" won't wash, if you don't have enough staff employ more, if you can't find enough staff then pay them more (this being the real issue I suspect) if you don't have enough space for more security lanes then start knocking down WHSmith and Costa Coffee so you can fit more in
I don't know of such queues at any other airports on mainland europe, FRA is my usual point of departure and it's a huge airport and I never spend more than a few minutes waiting to go through security and we've been taking laptops out of bags for years.
At the end of the day nearly all of the problems at Heathrow connected to security, buildings etc etc are down to the fact that the place is very poorly managed. BAA are only interested making $$$, LHR is a cash cow and BAA is milking it for as much as they can get. Until people start voting with their feet it won't change.
Thread Starter
Mike Jenvey quoted:
>The impact of the changes was very difficult to estimate (despite having a competent team of process simulators and planners). <
If they were a competent team, they would have figured this out by looking at places like Chicago. Therefore, ipso facto, they aren't competent, and the statement is a downright lie.
They should have been aware more than 7 weeks ago what they needed to do, so the sooner they sack the HAL director, the better. Possibly a public shooting 'pour encourager les autres' might help!
>The impact of the changes was very difficult to estimate (despite having a competent team of process simulators and planners). <
If they were a competent team, they would have figured this out by looking at places like Chicago. Therefore, ipso facto, they aren't competent, and the statement is a downright lie.
They should have been aware more than 7 weeks ago what they needed to do, so the sooner they sack the HAL director, the better. Possibly a public shooting 'pour encourager les autres' might help!
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Am now dreading my DOH trip this Friday morning 
Just hope the place is a damn site quieter at dawn's crack. Anyone know whereabouts the BA Fast Bag Drop desk is in T4 - I can't for the life of me remember from last time
If I got some spare time will register for the IRIS immigration thingy on the way out, hopefully to speed my re-entry - anyone else done it yet?
cheers
FF
Just hope the place is a damn site quieter at dawn's crack. Anyone know whereabouts the BA Fast Bag Drop desk is in T4 - I can't for the life of me remember from last time
If I got some spare time will register for the IRIS immigration thingy on the way out, hopefully to speed my re-entry - anyone else done it yet?
cheers
FF